EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 141
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pwadoc
271 Posts
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CyberPitz
United States428 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:32 DoctorPhil wrote: Did you know you can spawn larvae via the minimap? I assign all my queens to the same hotkey, then for each hatchery I click on v then on the hatchery with the minimap. The queens automaticly go for the hatchery closest to them and you don't have to scroll away from where you're currently watching. It's super easy and fast if you get the hang of it. Currently I keep all my queens on 4 and hatches on 5. I changed my "Center on next base" button to Tilde (~). That way it's really easy to *hit 4, ~, v+click, ~, v+click, ~, v+click, etc...) Most hatches inject at the same time (Very small amount of time between). Only thing you gotta do is just remember to do it regularly. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
I find this change to be annoying, I'm curious as to the reasoning why this change was made. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:23 ZergForHire wrote: I think you missed my point: Here is the broken down step for my new mechanic proposition. We assume with.... Most widely used hotkey for zergs: Queen binded: 5 6 7 8 All hatches at :4 -------------------------------------------------------- Old Method of injecting 4 hatcheries. 55->v->click 66->v->click 77->v->click 88->v->click Total : 16 actions Time it takes: Slow ~ Fast My new way of injecting 4 hatcheries 4 -> vvvv Total :5 Actions Time it takes: Very fast Now imagine trying to inject 4 hatcheries using the OLD METHOD at around 10 minute mark where things start to get really micro intensive, gets almost impossible to stay on top. My solution is legitimate for zergs in that, its just simple as pressing W and clicking as it is the case for protoss. Nothing fancy. And you mentioned remaxing your army. This only happens if you are at a point where if you have atleast 5 bases fully injecting larva at every interval. Not to mention that at this point, you probably have won the game either way. [ Im talking about the game leading up to 10 ~ 15 mark, where army is crucial for zerg as we only have 2 ~ 3 hatch to work with] Buffing the spawn larva mechanic is not a good idea. It is very, very, very powerful in its current incarnation. The method you used for comparison is extremely inefficient, and that is not how most people are doing it :p Old Method of injecting 4 hatcheries. 55->v->click 66->v->click 77->v->click 88->v->click Total : 16 actions Time it takes: Slow ~ Fast My new way of injecting 4 hatcheries 4 -> vvvv Total :5 Actions Time it takes: Very fast • Four Queens bound to 9 • Four Hatches To spawn larva nearly instantly on all hatches 1. Press 9 2. Press V 3. Hold SHIFT 4. (Back Space + left mouse click) * 4 Step four is essentially instantaneous. You created an account to voice your suggestion, which means you've thought a lot about it, but you're talking about a super buff to Zerg that would require entirely new mechanics be programmed into the game = not gonna happen, nor should it. The backspace method is infinitely faster than what you called the "old method" and it is also faster than the minimap method, although that does take less clicks. So .... (a) If you have amazing mouse accuracy, spawn larva from the minimap. (b) EVERYONE ELSE - use the backspace method. Seriously. It is amazing. | ||
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Robo_Ian
United States10 Posts
On March 01 2011 03:51 Huragius wrote: More like welcome to the Rumble in the Bronze. Really, gtfo. umad? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:51 LegendaryZ wrote: I'm going to assume that his point was that the point made about a bunker costing 4 Marines and active supply is actually misleading because the supply and mineral investment in the troops to fill the Bunker would have been made already regardless of whether or not the Bunker was actually constructed which means that it's not an investment directly associated with the Bunker itself. Marines are obviously the point of issue here because the argument revolving the Bunker is primarily an early-game argument and Marines are really the only unit that would consistently be using it. Reapers pretty much don't exist in the game anymore thanks to an earlier nerf that made it just about pointless and Marauders tend to come well after most Bunker complaints and Ghosts well beyond the relevance of the Bunker in your average game. Not that I am defending the original complaint on a 40sec bunker but here is why IMO you must always include the supply cost of a bunker. Terran and toss both build their ground defensive structures respectively at their natural. An engagement occurs in the middle of the map. Toss loses basically their whole army and must fall back. The cannons are all useful dispite the lower army size. Terran is crushed must fall back the bunkers are not all useful because the army has not completely been rebuilt. As for spine crawlers being 50sec. I don't agree with blizzard for balancing the game for all levels of play or balancing it for the sake of mirror MUs. The reason IMO for the spine crawler being at 50sec is basically because of zvz. A RL friend of mine will with his scouting drone will always try to plant a spine crawler on that one area of the creep where the zerg doesn't have vision. He says even if they notice it its always worth it because they have to pull of drones usually and then all he has to do is cancel it and tell the drone to mine so it can escape. This tactic works even against plat/diamond players so whether it is easy to stop or not is not gonna stop blizzard from trying to balance the game for all levels of play. + Show Spoiler + What an awesome first and second post | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
That being said, I have freaking clue why the bunker build time is such a critical balance issue for blizzard. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 01 2011 04:32 eviltomahawk wrote: Well, removal of the Amulet upgrade nerfs Protoss late game. Increasing Stim Pack research time nerfs Terran early game. I’m not sure I agree with this in the sense that these changes really play that big of a part in Terrans early game or Protoss/Zerg’s late game. Protoss and Zerg have a very strong late game. Terran has a weak late game, but a very strong early game. So it seems to me the culprit isn’t Protoss or Zerg, it is Terran. So I’m not sure the other races need adjustments but instead Terran’s early game needs a nerf and their late game a buff. | ||
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Zog
57 Posts
I basically quit playing zerg because of injection. That's just not fun. | ||
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Jimmeh
United Kingdom908 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:57 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: -Units now follow a transport if the transport fills up and they have no other orders. I find this change to be annoying, I'm curious as to the reasoning why this change was made. Don't units already do that? I.e. if I try and fill up my Medivac with 10 marines, 2 marines will follow the medivac wherever it goes until I tell them to do otherwise. I don't get the patch change. | ||
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TheWahbinator
United States131 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:54 Jimmeh wrote: Don't units already do that? I.e. if I try and fill up my Medivac with 10 marines, 2 marines will follow the medivac wherever it goes until I tell them to do otherwise. I don't get the patch change. I think that it used to reject the "Load" command and stop, and post-patch it's going to follow the "move" command, something that it would do if any other unit that doesn't take transport was right-clicked. | ||
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Magulina
Sweden152 Posts
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:49 p1cKLes wrote: I’m not sure I agree with this in the sense that these changes really play that big of a part in Terrans early game or Protoss/Zerg’s late game. Protoss and Zerg have a very strong late game. Terran has a weak late game, but a very strong early game. So it seems to me the culprit isn’t Protoss or Zerg, it is Terran. So I’m not sure the other races need adjustments but instead Terran’s early game needs a nerf and their late game a buff. I don't think Terrans are struggling late game any more vs Zerg, they're so highly mobile and tank marine is so cost efficient that it's really not the doomsday scenario people were predicting before the GSL maps got played. The amulet nerf will make a huge change to TvP lategame and if T were UP at that stage before they'll certainly be able to readjust now. I'm strongly of the opinion that Terran needs to be left completely alone now, not because they're not too strong, but simply because the other races are too weak. Terran are basically perfect, the exact image of what a race should be in SCII, just watch 90% of TvTs to see that they're currently the most exciting thing in the game. If anything has to be done it has to be done to the other races (more specifically zerg), in order to bring them up to scratch with this standard. I'm not holding my breath though, cause I think Blizzard have pretty much commited to not changing units/unit roles until HotS. | ||
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Ratel
Canada184 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:49 p1cKLes wrote: I’m not sure I agree with this in the sense that these changes really play that big of a part in Terrans early game or Protoss/Zerg’s late game. Protoss and Zerg have a very strong late game. Terran has a weak late game, but a very strong early game. So it seems to me the culprit isn’t Protoss or Zerg, it is Terran. So I’m not sure the other races need adjustments but instead Terran’s early game needs a nerf and their late game a buff. the terran has extremely powerful lategame its just their early game units are so cost efficient and cheap to the point that everyone keep using them throughout the whole game. as a result their efficiency goes does as the protoss get higher tech tier units that specifically counter the lower tier terran units. | ||
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RiGun
Argentina155 Posts
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doomed
Australia420 Posts
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jgelling
55 Posts
Who in their right mind will tech to something that can be completed countered by 2-3 good emps ? Good question indeed. For all the talk in this forum of "something needed to be done about insta-warp in storm", no one has explained why you'd build HTs with the EMP threat hanging out there? As it is, templar is still viable even with SC2's much stronger EMP (which used to be on the chunky, expensive, late-game science vessel) ONLY because of Khaydarin. If 2-3 EMPs completely obliterate your entire investment in templartech with no possibility of recovery, it's game over. I can't see why Protoss players wouldn't take their chances vs. Vikings. Templartech without Khaydarin is simply too risky in PvT. And it's simply too weak compared to robo in PvZ. And it's never had any real place in PvP. This just kills the entire tech tree. If anything, I think Blizz should consider switching all the energy upgrades to BW-style, +50 mana and increasing the energy regen rate of all spellcasting units. We need MORE spellcasting in this game, not less. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:34 beetlelisk wrote: Have anyone checked on the PTR if removal of the amulet really is a nerf? Erm are you serious? Obviously by my previous posts i am of the opinion that the removal was necessary (or at least worth trying out on the PTR) but it is certainly a nerf. By definition as soon as you take something away without giving something of equal value back it is a nerf. If they had buffed some other aspect of the protoss race you could start to argue if the patch itself nerfs or buffs the race, but in our current case the only other change to protoss was a slight buff to the zealot charge mechanic (frankly something well deserved as well) which doesn't matter nearly as much as KA did balancewise so YES this is without a doubt a nerf to the protoss race. The entire argument in this thread is about wether the nerf makes playing protoss impossible (as some are arguing) or was necessary to make playing Terran possible (as some others me included are arguing  ).The only aspect of this patch where you can argue if it is a nerf or a buff is the Infestor change. Health is obviously a buff (and a necessary one, they were probably the weakest spellcaster and are VERY easy to target with focus fire due to their size), but the FG changes can be seen as a buff or a nerf (DPS increase vs. reduce of Snare time) depending on the role you use infestors for. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 01 2011 08:06 kuroshiro wrote: I don't think Terrans are struggling late game any more vs Zerg, they're so highly mobile and tank marine is so cost efficient that it's really not the doomsday scenario people were predicting before the GSL maps got played. The amulet nerf will make a huge change to TvP lategame and if T were UP at that stage before they'll certainly be able to readjust now. I'm strongly of the opinion that Terran needs to be left completely alone now, not because they're not too strong, but simply because the other races are too weak. Terran are basically perfect, the exact image of what a race should be in SCII, just watch 90% of TvTs to see that they're currently the most exciting thing in the game. If anything has to be done it has to be done to the other races (more specifically zerg), in order to bring them up to scratch with this standard. I'm not holding my breath though, cause I think Blizzard have pretty much commited to not changing units/unit roles until HotS. You could be right? I do agree with Zerg, I’ve always thought that their early game needs some work, because it seems to be very open to early aggression, but I don’t think their late game needs any adjustment. I think both Protoss and Zerg have a very strong late game and where most of the problems seem to reside is that “early” game. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On March 01 2011 08:09 Ratel wrote: the terran has extremely powerful lategame its just their early game units are so cost efficient and cheap to the point that everyone keep using them throughout the whole game. as a result their efficiency goes does as the protoss get higher tech tier units that specifically counter the lower tier terran units. No they don't. At least compared to Broodlord/Ultras and Carriers/Colossus. Maybe the move speed buff will make BCs usable, but we'll have to see. | ||
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