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On February 27 2011 07:30 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 07:03 proot wrote:On February 27 2011 06:42 NecroSaint wrote:On February 27 2011 06:35 Salv wrote:On February 27 2011 06:30 hitman133 wrote:
Without khayderian amulet, there's no way protoss can stop 3 dropship full of marauders when the colossi balls are outside the expo. NEVER, unless they remove stim cuz that shit is fucking joke in this game. Scout it. I really can see this being a problem, and not just drop ships, on maps like xelnaga it is easy as hell for terran to just run small groups of marauders around the map to harrass expos etc. And this is hard to deal with if you do have khaydarian amulet, without it, gateway units just arent efficient enough to deal with small bio groups. And without any other fast responses, defending bases after your third is going to be very hard. I think they should keep the upgrade but make it so it only gives +20 damage, meaning you cant just instantly reinforce an army with storms, there is still a delay, which also makes it harder to deal with drops, but plausible without spreading your entire army around the map. If you've been watching how the high level protoss are playing, they are starting to spread their units out and gain map vision with observers/pylons. The high templar nerf is completely exaggerated by the protoss it's really funny to see. "OH MAN HOW DO WE DEAL WITH DROPS NOW?!?!?" The same way as before: scout well by building more than one observer and be careful with them, go phoenix/colossi if you really want to shut down harassment oriented terrans. The amulet was broken and needed a change, there is simply no way to argue that. HT defense was simply too good and prevented any harass options whatsoever. A 3 dropship drop is HUGE investment, it should require a portion of the protoss army to stop, not a couple of ht/zealot warpins. Top it off with HT/colossi pushes being pretty much unstoppable with storm constantly reinforcing and you can see why blizzard implemented the change. Drastic? Sure, but at least they acknowledged a broken ability and fixed it. I agree, they should have approached it a little differently, maybe buffing storm aoe to compensate, but i'm sure they'll do something to quiet down all the crying. The amulet prevented so many harass, that we never see drops when HT are out, it's really an amazing thing! On a not sarcastic note, a lot of the times terran just kill the HT while it's morphing in, others they just move out of the storm and keep on doing damage. You know, warpgates have cooldown, and when ppl say late game you have 10 gates, it's not like they are all ready to pump out units just for the case of a drop. Besides, late game you can't just leave army scatered around the base. How many times weaker is your main army then? Do i even need to say how marauders and marines wreck cannons? If HT are broken so are planetary fortresses, or fungal growth. Each race has it way of dealing with different things. Oh and by being careful with observeers i suppose you mean to try to dodge a scan + vikings or marines right? Seems pretty easy for me! Not to mention when those die without anything i can do now i only have to sacrifice a couple of colossus and make more obs to scatter all around the map on all the possible locations i can be dropped! And 3 medivac drop is not an investment at all. Those units are part of your army already whether you use them for drop or not. It's not like warping in zealots with a warp prism, which are specifically made for harass, the zealots will most likely die and the warp prism won't have any other use. That is an invenstment, not terran drops. If anything for the terran it's a high risk high reward situation, where he hopes he's not noticed soon, or the army is far away and he can do damage and run away with minimal losses. I'm sorry, try again with other (better) arguments.
Are you kidding me? This is just proving your inability to play rather than the game's 'imbalance'. If you ever played both sides of the matchup, you would realize HTs are not REQUIRED to shut down harassment oriented play. In fact, the best option to completely destroy harassment oriented play is phoenix/colossi. Amulet high templar made it pretty much made it worthless to drop vs competent protoss(you would know if you put some time into learning tvp too). Zealot storm warp ins made the harass useless, and they could then proceed to roll you with ht/colossi, or take the map with nothing the terran could to do stop it. You want a game? go watch GSL + Show Spoiler + to see my point
One thing that won't change once HT out is the risk of getting feedbacked on the medivacs and losing the cargo. Notice the trend? The best way to stop the drops is shutting it down is through good map presence and scouting and making the terran lose a pretty good chunk of resources for a completely failed attempt. Like I said, you have ways other than templar to deal with this and templar won't be useless following the patch if you're active around the map.
A large medivac group for a drop is a pretty damn big investment. Let's say 3 medivacs go, cross an observer or a pylon on the map. If you react and shut it down, that's 32 supply that isn't doing anything in his army. It's just sitting there. Even more, if you intercept it, feedback it, snipe it with stalkers or phoenixes, you know have a reason to expand again with him being unable to do shit about it.
It was a good change. Yeah, they could have approached it differently, but the fact they're actively approaching broken parts of the game is great.
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By the way, about fungal growth being a missile, is it really that slow? It travels 9 grids in maybe 0.3 real seconds and has a radius of 2. Even if you respond in time, most units aren't going to escape.
Blink, yeah maybe, but even for pro gamers only once every other time or so in a real situation.
It seems like you'd have to be flattering yourself to insist that this makes a difference to you.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
I'm a terran player, but i think removing the amulet all together is wrong, but in the 1.2 state it is imbalanced. So they really should make it give extra 20 energy instead of 25. Then u cant just warp in templar in the middle of the battle, but they can still get energy for storm pretty fast. Any thoughts on this?
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United States7483 Posts
I really disagree with the amulet being IMBA in it's current state, if it was, we'd see a lot more high templar and a lot less colossus play than we do.
That said, even if we assume it's correct, the only result of this change will be less high templar usage, more colossus usage. I don't think that's good for the game, does anybody disagree?
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Am I the only one crushed by the end to the archon toilet I mean it almost happend in GSL agaisnt Nestea it was so exciting I dont see a need for it to be nerfed.
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Can't wait for the next few months of TerranCraft.
Blizzard doesn't know what the fuck they are doing regarding balance. Sure, they made some great UI improvements, but they are just watering the game down and making everything more fragile. They need to STOP NERFING units, but instead BUFF other units to compensate. There are few worse feelings than having your favorite race or strategy nerfed into the ground.
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On February 27 2011 10:40 shane_danger16 wrote:
Am I the only one crushed by the end to the archon toilet I mean it almost happend in GSL agaisnt Nestea it was so exciting I dont see a need for it to be nerfed. Its really disappointing but there are bigger issues with the patch that people are focusing on.
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I'm a bit worried that these Infestor changes will limit a Zerg's options in midgame. Infestors will be a lot worse at dealing with air due to the projectile change and the stun reduction, which means Zerg will have no choice other then using Mutalisks in TvZ, and Hydralisks in ZvZ to deal with air.
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Really disappointed with the mothership and templar change (mothership change especially). It seems like Blizzard is determined to remove any possible excitement from this game.
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On February 27 2011 10:48 Tsagacity wrote:
Really disappointed with the mothership and templar change (mothership change especially). It seems like Blizzard is determined to remove any possible excitement from this game.
Everything they have done recently points towards blizzard wanting the game to be played the way they want it to on their own maps, some of their reasoning on maps + changes is just being stubborn.
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no more toilet??
we are gonna have to find new ways to whip our hair back and forth
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On February 27 2011 08:34 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 08:30 PrinceXizor wrote:dodgable by blink? LOL thats dodgable by walking. why is it as slow as a HSM? thats so ineffective. it doesn't even track the enemy. Well infestor zergs get the shaft again. ugh. if you have to nerf a part of the zerg army don't nerf the most difficult to use (no korea pros are using them well) How are infesters currently hard to use? You select them all, press the fungal growth and then place. How is that hard?
keeping them in the back, not grouping them up, micro vs siege tanks, when/where to NP, when to fungal, loop fungaling, burrow micro, overlord fungals(putting infestors in and out of overlords to protect from ghosts while fungalling), fungal vs air. it requires a large amount of thought and skill to use correctly, and not a single korean pro gamer does it well enough.
saying infestors are simple is like saying sentries or siege tanks or HTs are simple to use.
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On February 27 2011 10:50 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:48 Tsagacity wrote:
Really disappointed with the mothership and templar change (mothership change especially). It seems like Blizzard is determined to remove any possible excitement from this game. Everything they have done recently points towards blizzard wanting the game to be played the way they want it to on their own maps, some of their reasoning on maps + changes is just being stubborn.
Um I'm pretty sure it was the players who have been complaining about HT energy upgrade and Mothership.
It's not like these changes are totally arbitrary in terms of the community, Blizzard is trying to listen.
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Nerfing Templar and deep Stargate tech and not Colossi, gotta hate that. :| Like the change to Fungal tho.
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Wow I am very disapointed with this patch. While there are some good changes (Fungal no longer instant cast, and Stim time increase will at least be interesting to see), it just seems like they've taken out so much of the exctiement in Starcraft 2.
1.Great, now archon toilets are impossible, so whenever we did get to see an epic game it is 10x less epic? Furthermore, now these units will be invulnerable for a full 1.5 seconds? What is that?
2. Grandmaster league. As a top 400 player struggling to get into top 200, the specifics about grandmaster league make me a very sad panda. Great, so I have to wait a whole (6 months? How long has this season lasted) in order to become top 200?
Furthormore, there are a series of lesser points which are still important:
1.Viking flower, very cute and enjoyable to see move that players used. Sort of like muta stacking, but no one complained about not being able to see how many mutas there were, did they?
2. So now, despite how well you macro, zealots will be guranteed to chase a target?
3.Khahdryion amulet removed...templar tech is so much less viable as the warp in potential is greatly reduced.
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- A new menu option is available in the Gameplay tab to change the behavior of Control Group Buttons. These can now be set to ignore mouse clicks or be hidden completely.
Favorite part of the patch
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On February 27 2011 10:38 Whitewing wrote:
I really disagree with the amulet being IMBA in it's current state, if it was, we'd see a lot more high templar and a lot less colossus play than we do.
That said, even if we assume it's correct, the only result of this change will be less high templar usage, more colossus usage. I don't think that's good for the game, does anybody disagree?
Thanks, that's the best way I've seen this argument expressed.
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On February 27 2011 10:55 RoarMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:50 uSnAmplified wrote:On February 27 2011 10:48 Tsagacity wrote:
Really disappointed with the mothership and templar change (mothership change especially). It seems like Blizzard is determined to remove any possible excitement from this game. Everything they have done recently points towards blizzard wanting the game to be played the way they want it to on their own maps, some of their reasoning on maps + changes is just being stubborn. Um I'm pretty sure it was the players who have been complaining about HT energy upgrade and Mothership. It's not like these changes are totally arbitrary in terms of the community, Blizzard is trying to listen. I dont think motherships were everyones biggest concern with game balance right now, and when you can only cite one change as "blizzard trying" then its pretty bad. Lets also ignore the awful maps they just threw at us to, telling us they though macro maps like shakuras were boring, definitly listing to us there.
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This patch:
-nerfs Terran early game
-nerfs Protoss late game
-buffs infestors to be mini-templar
Isn't this exactly what the pro community has been demanding more or less? I really don't see the hate for this patch beyond the mothership nerf (which might be less harsh if you can attack while invulnerable; vortex my army for them to be invincible for a bit could be fun).
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On February 27 2011 11:08 dump wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:38 Whitewing wrote:
I really disagree with the amulet being IMBA in it's current state, if it was, we'd see a lot more high templar and a lot less colossus play than we do.
That said, even if we assume it's correct, the only result of this change will be less high templar usage, more colossus usage. I don't think that's good for the game, does anybody disagree? Thanks, that's the best way I've seen this argument expressed.
I think more people use colossus because it is much easier to use than HT. Almost no micro required due to the range after upgraded. For tanks you need to siege and get in position and HT need to cast the spell while colossus just A move in.
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EPT
