On February 27 2011 08:09 DooMDash wrote: Ghosts don't kill with EMP, the biggest disadvantage of all.
People seriously need to stop bringing up this argument.
What else do you think the rest of the terran army is for? It's to kill the toss after the ghost reveals their balsa wood hull.
Do you seriously never have an army with your ghost when you EMP?
HTs effectiveness increases pretty constant up to a decently large # of HTs. 5 HTs are better than 2 HTs because you deal more damage via Storm with 5 HTs.
2 Ghosts that emp and entire army are just as effective as 5 ghosts that emp an entire army yeah it's strong (maybe strong than 1-2 storms even), but that's where it ends. Once you hit ever unit with EMP there's nothing left to do for the battle. HTs can be part of a unit composition and 5 HTs can dish out a significant amount of pain over 2 HTs. Even if you blanket everything with storm having more HTs means you can do it again in 4 seconds. Having more ghosts means... you have more ghosts... the enemy units still don't have shields again.
Old FG was also like EMP in some ways (it was a bit between due to just slowly killing an army via fungal). With 8 second duration it meant you generally only get to use it once on some set of units during a battle. So if you FG->engage then having a huge # of infestors would give you sharp diminishing returns as once you've FGed most/all of a force the battle will end before you FG wears off and you can use the additional FGs you have. With 4s it's obviously more like storm now in that sense.
On February 27 2011 08:21 Ovreel wrote: I guess my problem with the Amulet is that if EMP and Fungal land, the damage and effect is guaranteed. Units have to stay in Storm for the damage to be done, which is why Protoss have to spam it.
The other is that people are already bored of colossi, and we're being taken away yet another choice.
On February 27 2011 08:20 illusi0n wrote: The biggest issue comparing the function of ghost and templar in TvP is that templars can be warped in instantly anywhere. This comes into play in the mid/lategame where protoss sitting on eg. 3 bases and 6 gas is clearly favoured. Even if you win a big fight against protoss and try to stomp one of his expansions he can instantly warp in 2 templars and decimate your already stimmed and damaged army with hardly any skill required. No wonder that the code S players think protoss is heavily favoured on the new GSL macro maps. ( btw im a random master player and i am always happy to play vs terra if i get toss, but not the other way around )
Do you know how many times i freaking killed the whole terran army, he was down by 20-40 supply, but i couldn't kill that immortal planetary fortress on the gold expansion @ xel'naga? I give you a hint, countless time, giving him the chance of a comeback, and trust me, they happen.
On February 27 2011 08:23 Logo wrote: 2 Ghosts that emp and entire army are just as effective as 5 ghosts that emp an entire army yeah it's strong (maybe strong than 1-2 storms even), but that's where it ends. Once you hit ever unit with EMP there's nothing left to do for the battle. HTs can be part of a unit composition and 5 HTs can dish out a significant amount of pain over 2 HTs. Even if you blanket everything with storm having more HTs means you can do it again in 4 seconds. Having more ghosts means... you have more ghosts... the enemy units still don't have shields again.
Are you really crying that 2 Ghosts are Enough to emp the whole army of Protoss and take away mostlikly half of their hitpoints with it isn't enough...no comment.
On February 27 2011 08:21 Ovreel wrote: I guess my problem with the Amulet is that if EMP and Fungal land, the damage and effect is guaranteed. Units have to stay in Storm for the damage to be done, which is why Protoss have to spam it.
The other is that people are already bored of colossi, and we're being taken away yet another choice.
I have been trying to avoid using colossi for a long time now. Not because I get bored of them but I feel that they're quite fragile and difficult to protect from Vikings and Corruptors. I just never seem to have enough stalkers
What if you were to include a ghost in your drop? 2 medivacs MM + 1 ghost. Drop, proceed to destroy probes and nexus, see HT warping in, emp before it even finishes warping in (or as it is moving up to storm if it is warped in out of sight). What is the downside to this other than having 1 less marauder or 2 less marines in the drop? Don't say higher gas cost because the HT being warped in to defend cost just as much.
Real question, not sarcasm. Why are terrans not including ghosts in their late game drops against protoss if they are warping in high templar?
On February 27 2011 08:09 DooMDash wrote: Ghosts don't kill with EMP, the biggest disadvantage of all.
People seriously need to stop bringing up this argument.
What else do you think the rest of the terran army is for? It's to kill the toss after the ghost reveals their balsa wood hull.
Do you seriously never have an army with your ghost when you EMP?
HTs effectiveness increases pretty constant up to a decently large # of HTs. 5 HTs are better than 2 HTs because you deal more damage via Storm with 5 HTs.
2 Ghosts that emp and entire army are just as effective as 5 ghosts that emp an entire army yeah it's strong (maybe strong than 1-2 storms even), but that's where it ends. Once you hit ever unit with EMP there's nothing left to do for the battle. HTs can be part of a unit composition and 5 HTs can dish out a significant amount of pain over 2 HTs. Even if you blanket everything with storm having more HTs means you can do it again in 4 seconds. Having more ghosts means... you have more ghosts... the enemy units still don't have shields again.
Old FG was also like EMP in some ways (it was a bit between due to just slowly killing an army via fungal). With 8 second duration it meant you generally only get to use it once on some set of units during a battle. So if you FG->engage then having a huge # of infestors would give you sharp diminishing returns as once you've FGed most/all of a force the battle will end before you FG wears off and you can use the additional FGs you have. With 4s it's obviously more like storm now in that sense.
I really don't see it as a DPS race when it comes to storms vs. EMP. When the protoss ball and the terran ball collide, the templar are going to do some amount of damage, and the ghost is going to do some amount of damage, and the rest of the army should clean each other up. Neither ghosts nor templar really finish off the army.
On the other hand, ghosts do finish off templar instantly. In a toss ball vs. toss ball fight (sans colossi for the sake of argument), there are factors other than storm use that determine the outcome. In a terran ball vs. toss ball fight, if the EMP(s) land and the toss was expecting to use storms, it's over.
dodgable by blink? LOL thats dodgable by walking. why is it as slow as a HSM? thats so ineffective. it doesn't even track the enemy. Well infestor zergs get the shaft again. ugh. if you have to nerf a part of the zerg army don't nerf the most difficult to use (no korea pros are using them well)
dodgable by blink? LOL thats dodgable by walking. why is it as slow as a HSM? thats so ineffective. it doesn't even track the enemy. Well infestor zergs get the shaft again. ugh. if you have to nerf a part of the zerg army don't nerf the most difficult to use (no korea pros are using them well)
How are infesters currently hard to use? You select them all, press the fungal growth and then place. How is that hard?
On February 27 2011 08:30 Fenrisulf wrote: One question to the terran players.
What if you were to include a ghost in your drop? 2 medivacs MM + 1 ghost. Drop, proceed to destroy probes and nexus, see HT warping in, emp before it even finishes warping in (or as it is moving up to storm if it is warped in out of sight). What is the downside to this other than having 1 less marauder or 2 less marines in the drop? Don't say higher gas cost because the HT being warped in to defend cost just as much.
Real question, not sarcasm. Why are terrans not including ghosts in their late game drops against protoss if they are warping in high templar?
Why waste an EMP on 20 shield Probes. When you can just kill it just as fast.
If medivacs get feedback/sniped by stalkers.. thats a lot of gas units wasted.
Why would you warp in templars to handle a drop when Zealots with charge will do.
On February 27 2011 08:30 Fenrisulf wrote: One question to the terran players.
What if you were to include a ghost in your drop? 2 medivacs MM + 1 ghost. Drop, proceed to destroy probes and nexus, see HT warping in, emp before it even finishes warping in (or as it is moving up to storm if it is warped in out of sight). What is the downside to this other than having 1 less marauder or 2 less marines in the drop? Don't say higher gas cost because the HT being warped in to defend cost just as much.
Real question, not sarcasm. Why are terrans not including ghosts in their late game drops against protoss if they are warping in high templar?
Why waste an EMP on 20 shield Probes. When you can just kill it just as fast.
If medivacs get feedback/sniped by stalkers.. thats a lot of gas units wasted.
Why would you warp in templars to handle a drop when Zealots with charge will do.
since when can warp in zealots kill microed marauders with medievac support? i wonder what game you are playing dude
On February 27 2011 08:30 Fenrisulf wrote: One question to the terran players.
What if you were to include a ghost in your drop? 2 medivacs MM + 1 ghost. Drop, proceed to destroy probes and nexus, see HT warping in, emp before it even finishes warping in (or as it is moving up to storm if it is warped in out of sight). What is the downside to this other than having 1 less marauder or 2 less marines in the drop? Don't say higher gas cost because the HT being warped in to defend cost just as much.
Real question, not sarcasm. Why are terrans not including ghosts in their late game drops against protoss if they are warping in high templar?
Why waste an EMP on 20 shield Probes. When you can just kill it just as fast.
If medivacs get feedback/sniped by stalkers.. thats a lot of gas units wasted.
Why would you warp in templars to handle a drop when Zealots with charge will do.
since when can warp in zealots kill microed marauders with medievac support? i wonder what game you are playing dude
Then warp in stalkers... I don't see what the problem is. My point is that you don't need HTs to handle late game drops.
On February 27 2011 08:32 Lokian wrote: I like the projectile change. Blizzard is actually trying to add micro skills in the game -_- dunno why people are complaining about it...
I think fungal needs a slight increase in range if the cast is that slow.
Would like to see projectile for EMP like in SC1 too. Those two nerfs will justify for amulet imo.
I would also like to see 2 ghosts morph into a spectre. That would justify archons.
On February 27 2011 08:30 Fenrisulf wrote: One question to the terran players.
What if you were to include a ghost in your drop? 2 medivacs MM + 1 ghost. Drop, proceed to destroy probes and nexus, see HT warping in, emp before it even finishes warping in (or as it is moving up to storm if it is warped in out of sight). What is the downside to this other than having 1 less marauder or 2 less marines in the drop? Don't say higher gas cost because the HT being warped in to defend cost just as much.
Real question, not sarcasm. Why are terrans not including ghosts in their late game drops against protoss if they are warping in high templar?
Why waste an EMP on 20 shield Probes. When you can just kill it just as fast.
If medivacs get feedback/sniped by stalkers.. thats a lot of gas units wasted.
Why would you warp in templars to handle a drop when Zealots with charge will do.
He means to emp the HT when it comes to you, not emp the probes, lol.
EPT
