• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:17
CEST 00:17
KST 07:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202547RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 538 users

[G] Comprehensive SC2 League and Ladder Guide - Page 65

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 84 Next
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 20 2012 00:09 GMT
#1281
Probably the worst system ladder I ever seen. Iccup system was way better...
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
October 20 2012 00:16 GMT
#1282
On October 20 2012 09:09 Mura19 wrote:
Probably the worst system ladder I ever seen. Iccup system was way better...


The short answer is that it has different design goals from ICCUP, which was aimed at much more serious players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 20 2012 01:14 GMT
#1283
You loss too much points when you favored, that ridiculous... Low mmr players are favored most of the time and high mmr will play againt favored opponent most of the time. That result as high mmr players will always gain alot points beating favored players and losing ridiculous pts for losing like -1 or -5 pts. In the other side low mmr player will always going down and down because they loss too many points for a loss and gain nothing for a win. Sc2 ladder system is actually broken...
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
October 20 2012 01:31 GMT
#1284
On October 20 2012 10:14 Mura19 wrote:
You loss too much points when you favored, that ridiculous... Low mmr players are favored most of the time and high mmr will play againt favored opponent most of the time. That result as high mmr players will always gain alot points beating favored players and losing ridiculous pts for losing like -1 or -5 pts. In the other side low mmr player will always going down and down because they loss too many points for a loss and gain nothing for a win. Sc2 ladder system is actually broken...


What you're describing is not how the system works, at all. In what league were you seeing what you describe happening?

When the system's functioning normally, a high MMR player will always see themselves "favored" vs a low MMR player unless the high MMR player's point score is too low for their MMR, which happens only at the beginning of a season or if they do not play very much.

Also, both players can see each other as "favored" at the same time, if they both have too-low point scores for their MMRs, so if the low MMR player has been playing a lot and encounters a relatively inactive high MMR player, both players will earn large points for a win and lose few for a loss since they'll see each other as "favored."

Regardless, there's no way for a low MMR player to wind up in some kind of score death spiral because they're losing tons of points for a loss against better MMR players. It just won't happen. *

* Unless there's a bug. Is this happening at GM level, or low bronze league?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 20 2012 01:43 GMT
#1285
It's not a bug, it's how this broken system work. When you low master, you most of the time play againt diamond and high master play againt gm, that how it work... The problem is you loss too many points when you favored whatever the league you are.
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 20 2012 01:47 GMT
#1286
Seriouly who care losing 20 games againt idra -1pts per loss? But losing -20 pts againt diamond player who cheese you is clearly a joke and it's how this system work...
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 02:39:40
October 20 2012 02:38 GMT
#1287
On October 20 2012 10:47 Mura19 wrote:
Seriouly who care losing 20 games againt idra -1pts per loss? But losing -20 pts againt diamond player who cheese you is clearly a joke and it's how this system work...


If you're losing that many points, they must be losing a lot to worse players than you. Maybe figuring out how those lower MMR players beat them is better than complaining about the system?

Edit: There are reasonable complaints about this system, this is not one of them. Note that ICCUP takes away large numbers of points if better players lose to lower skill players' cheeses too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 27 2012 14:53 GMT
#1288
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
October 27 2012 15:57 GMT
#1289
On October 27 2012 23:53 Mura19 wrote:
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....


You're playing different calibers of players.
Moderator
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-27 19:38:29
October 27 2012 19:07 GMT
#1290
On October 28 2012 00:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:53 Mura19 wrote:
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....


You're playing different calibers of players.


First, what Excalibur_Z said.

Second: Let me get this straight. You want a 50/50 win/loss ratio, or close to it (ok, maybe you're in high master league with 60/40 because it usually matches you against worse players), with no improvement, to earn you unlimited points as you rack up games?

Fortunately, they're adding a system that does just that to Heart of the Swarm.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7681240/Heart_of_the_Swarm_Preview_Leveling-10_25_2012

You'll quickly wind up level 20, while that guy with 1100 points will be level 3 or something.

Edit: I'm not being derisive about the leveling system -- the idea of a straight-up reward for activity of any kind is something that might be just what SC2 needs. However, I think people need to understand that, contrary to what many seem to believe, the current ladder system does NOT work like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 27 2012 20:04 GMT
#1291
On October 28 2012 00:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:53 Mura19 wrote:
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....


You're playing different calibers of players.


How many games I need to play to get same points as the other guy who get 1100points with 50 game played?? 1000 games? 2000 games ? Just because this guys play againt '' different calibers of players''. Im not sure if you serious or not...
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-27 20:37:35
October 27 2012 20:35 GMT
#1292
On October 28 2012 05:04 Mura19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 00:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:53 Mura19 wrote:
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....


You're playing different calibers of players.


How many games I need to play to get same points as the other guy who get 1100points with 50 game played?? 1000 games? 2000 games ? Just because this guys play againt '' different calibers of players''. Im not sure if you serious or not...


He's very serious. A better player will have a higher hidden matchmaking rating and his point score will rise higher as a result. Once you are done with bonus pool, points are driven by your quality of play, not how much you play. If your points are at the level that corresponds to your matchmaking rating, you will, on average, lose as many points as you gain and thus stay in about the same place.

The only way to catch up to the guy at 1100 is to improve your game and get better.

Edit: All the answers are in the original post. Your questions will all be addressed when you read and understand it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Generalul
Profile Joined March 2011
Romania114 Posts
October 29 2012 10:28 GMT
#1293
Since i started playing random, a few seasons ago, from high master terran my mmr dropped to diamond. I expected this, so being demoted wasn't really a problem, as i took my time and explored each race and matchup. Now, 2 seasons ago, i started in diamond, and afterwards promoted to masters. After a time and due to a losing streak, i fell to diamond again. This time, although i was doing ok, it took a lot more time to promote again. Now, after making a break, and playing Diablo, upon returning to the ladder, i made some bad decisions and in 2 days i was back to diamond. This became rather hillarious, so i focused on SC2 for a few days and i was back in masters This happened in the same season, and i was glad afterwards i remained there, without falling again. Still, after all this experience i think demotions are made too easily, as you can have a losing streak, lose a few games to cheese/weird allins, and this can spiral out of control. Now, after 5-6 loses i imediatly think about demotion, and i don't think this is the way Blizz intended the gameplay to be...
www.comanda-caricaturi.ro
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 10:53:35
October 29 2012 10:52 GMT
#1294
On October 28 2012 05:35 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 05:04 Mura19 wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:53 Mura19 wrote:
I got 567 points in 500 games played this season. In the same league I see some players with 1100 points with 50 games played. This broken ladder system don't make any sense to me... playing 450 more games and get less points than other players with the same ratio win/loss....


You're playing different calibers of players.


How many games I need to play to get same points as the other guy who get 1100points with 50 game played?? 1000 games? 2000 games ? Just because this guys play againt '' different calibers of players''. Im not sure if you serious or not...


He's very serious. A better player will have a higher hidden matchmaking rating and his point score will rise higher as a result. Once you are done with bonus pool, points are driven by your quality of play, not how much you play. If your points are at the level that corresponds to your matchmaking rating, you will, on average, lose as many points as you gain and thus stay in about the same place.

The only way to catch up to the guy at 1100 is to improve your game and get better.

Edit: All the answers are in the original post. Your questions will all be addressed when you read and understand it.


I don't want to know why the broken ladder system is broken, I want blizzard make a change. I want fair system like Iccup. And Generalul, you totally right, i'ts just another problem with the system...
Skirmjan
Profile Joined October 2012
Italy190 Posts
October 29 2012 11:34 GMT
#1295
On October 29 2012 19:52 Mura19 wrote:

I don't want to know why the broken ladder system is broken, I want blizzard make a change. I want fair system like Iccup. And Generalul, you totally right, i'ts just another problem with the system...


your "friend" is playing against player with higher MMR than your opponents, has an higher MMR than you have, and as such is getting more points as his ladder points are rapidly running towards his high MMR. let's make a practical example:

it's 1st of november, points are reset and you're placed in the same master league as the real IMMVP*; as he plays progamers, and has an incredibly high MMR, his points will rapidly rise towards it, faster than yours do (and btw, i think this is totally right and legit,otherwised points would totally be an activity meter, while this way they are at least tied to real skill, that being MMR). This happens because points are reset while MMR is not, just imagine ICCUP with a seasonal reset that keeps you in the old "letter" (say,C-) category and has a "back into form" meter, as ladder points. What really compares with ICCUP scores is the real MMR, which is hidden and pretty shaky. The league is also pretty much a % page, nothing more. being diamond means top 18%, for istance.

I must say that i'm actually unsure if you're being serious tho. The ladder matchmaking is totally fine, could use some more stats and transparency, but works totally right.

@ExcaliburZ i remember reading one of your post saying that actually master was enlarged, going from top 2% to top 5% or something, i remember you weren't sure about how much of an enlargement there had been back then (i wasn't registered in TL yet)
is that still true? do we have more precise data?

*too lazy to write in the LG
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
October 29 2012 13:58 GMT
#1296
On October 29 2012 20:34 Skirmjan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 19:52 Mura19 wrote:

I don't want to know why the broken ladder system is broken, I want blizzard make a change. I want fair system like Iccup. And Generalul, you totally right, i'ts just another problem with the system...


your "friend" is playing against player with higher MMR than your opponents, has an higher MMR than you have, and as such is getting more points as his ladder points are rapidly running towards his high MMR. let's make a practical example:

it's 1st of november, points are reset and you're placed in the same master league as the real IMMVP*; as he plays progamers, and has an incredibly high MMR, his points will rapidly rise towards it, faster than yours do (and btw, i think this is totally right and legit,otherwised points would totally be an activity meter, while this way they are at least tied to real skill, that being MMR). This happens because points are reset while MMR is not, just imagine ICCUP with a seasonal reset that keeps you in the old "letter" (say,C-) category and has a "back into form" meter, as ladder points. What really compares with ICCUP scores is the real MMR, which is hidden and pretty shaky. The league is also pretty much a % page, nothing more. being diamond means top 18%, for istance.

I must say that i'm actually unsure if you're being serious tho. The ladder matchmaking is totally fine, could use some more stats and transparency, but works totally right.

@ExcaliburZ i remember reading one of your post saying that actually master was enlarged, going from top 2% to top 5% or something, i remember you weren't sure about how much of an enlargement there had been back then (i wasn't registered in TL yet)
is that still true? do we have more precise data?

*too lazy to write in the LG


The MMR is not good, it make the ladder system unfair. In ICCUP, when you won a game you gain same points as any other player. You don't have this unfair system who give you more points because your high MMR. That why ICCUP will always be the best system ladder, there is no favoritism, everyone are egal... And egal mean fair.... The only thing can ICCUP should add, is a QUICK MATCH system.
Skirmjan
Profile Joined October 2012
Italy190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 14:28:51
October 29 2012 14:23 GMT
#1297
On October 29 2012 22:58 Mura19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 20:34 Skirmjan wrote:
On October 29 2012 19:52 Mura19 wrote:

I don't want to know why the broken ladder system is broken, I want blizzard make a change. I want fair system like Iccup. And Generalul, you totally right, i'ts just another problem with the system...


your "friend" is playing against player with higher MMR than your opponents, has an higher MMR than you have, and as such is getting more points as his ladder points are rapidly running towards his high MMR. let's make a practical example:

it's 1st of november, points are reset and you're placed in the same master league as the real IMMVP*; as he plays progamers, and has an incredibly high MMR, his points will rapidly rise towards it, faster than yours do (and btw, i think this is totally right and legit,otherwised points would totally be an activity meter, while this way they are at least tied to real skill, that being MMR). This happens because points are reset while MMR is not, just imagine ICCUP with a seasonal reset that keeps you in the old "letter" (say,C-) category and has a "back into form" meter, as ladder points. What really compares with ICCUP scores is the real MMR, which is hidden and pretty shaky. The league is also pretty much a % page, nothing more. being diamond means top 18%, for istance.

I must say that i'm actually unsure if you're being serious tho. The ladder matchmaking is totally fine, could use some more stats and transparency, but works totally right.

@ExcaliburZ i remember reading one of your post saying that actually master was enlarged, going from top 2% to top 5% or something, i remember you weren't sure about how much of an enlargement there had been back then (i wasn't registered in TL yet)
is that still true? do we have more precise data?

*too lazy to write in the LG


The MMR is not good, it make the ladder system unfair. In ICCUP, when you won a game you gain same points as any other player. You don't have this unfair system who give you more points because your high MMR. That why ICCUP will always be the best system ladder, there is no favoritism, everyone are egal... And egal mean fair.... The only thing can ICCUP should add, is a QUICK MATCH system.


That's NOT true, in Iccup when a B- player plays a C gets very little points, and also point gain diminishes as the rank gets higher (A players get much less points for beating fellow A players than D players get for beating fellow D players, in fact you could be getting points even if you had less than 50% wins in the long run so long as you're below D+\C)
I think you've never played iccup or bw, and you're just being a troll.
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 15:09:04
October 29 2012 14:42 GMT
#1298
I never said B- should play againt C players.... Blizzard should change actual system ladder for ICCUP system with QUICK MATCH system who match D players vs D players, C- players vs C- players etc...
Sandstorm9
Profile Joined January 2011
41 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 16:19:22
October 29 2012 15:22 GMT
#1299
MOD EDIT: Spam.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
October 29 2012 16:18 GMT
#1300
On October 29 2012 20:34 Skirmjan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 19:52 Mura19 wrote:

I don't want to know why the broken ladder system is broken, I want blizzard make a change. I want fair system like Iccup. And Generalul, you totally right, i'ts just another problem with the system...


your "friend" is playing against player with higher MMR than your opponents, has an higher MMR than you have, and as such is getting more points as his ladder points are rapidly running towards his high MMR. let's make a practical example:

it's 1st of november, points are reset and you're placed in the same master league as the real IMMVP*; as he plays progamers, and has an incredibly high MMR, his points will rapidly rise towards it, faster than yours do (and btw, i think this is totally right and legit,otherwised points would totally be an activity meter, while this way they are at least tied to real skill, that being MMR). This happens because points are reset while MMR is not, just imagine ICCUP with a seasonal reset that keeps you in the old "letter" (say,C-) category and has a "back into form" meter, as ladder points. What really compares with ICCUP scores is the real MMR, which is hidden and pretty shaky. The league is also pretty much a % page, nothing more. being diamond means top 18%, for istance.

I must say that i'm actually unsure if you're being serious tho. The ladder matchmaking is totally fine, could use some more stats and transparency, but works totally right.

@ExcaliburZ i remember reading one of your post saying that actually master was enlarged, going from top 2% to top 5% or something, i remember you weren't sure about how much of an enlargement there had been back then (i wasn't registered in TL yet)
is that still true? do we have more precise data?

*too lazy to write in the LG


It is still true, but until Blizzard releases the new target percentiles, I can't update the guide with 100% confidence. The only thing I was told was "the sc2ranks numbers are fairly accurate" but those have a lot of slush, one week Master might be 4%, the next 5%, the next 6%, so it's difficult to pinpoint.
Moderator
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 84 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .270
Nathanias 207
BRAT_OK 64
Nina 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Sexy 36
Bale 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever381
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1072
Foxcn301
taco 36
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe97
Liquid`Ken34
Other Games
tarik_tv10334
summit1g7598
Grubby3210
FrodaN1334
C9.Mang0246
Sick42
Maynarde18
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta77
• poizon28 48
• musti20045 43
• Hupsaiya 43
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 16
• Azhi_Dahaki9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22722
League of Legends
• Doublelift3261
Other Games
• imaqtpie1260
• Shiphtur446
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
11h 43m
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 12h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.