I ran a few lings by a few people today..and its not like I killed all there probes or anything..but they quit....I'm like you lost 6 probes... its bronze...its not like the end of the world.
I've had 6 people quit after there first attack failed or they were attacked first and didn't handle it the best... neither of these were make it or break it attacks....
One of the games the guy ran his probes back to his main and told me he would have just been mined out too fast anyways...
Why oh why...does competition bread fear to this new generation of gamers... Am I one of the few guys who just sucks but clings in every game and makes you beat me... I know when I've lost...but I sit there and i try to make you beat me. you would be suprised at how many times... ling run by's will get you back into the game in the lower bronze leagues...
Does this new generation of gamers lack heart/dedication? They just go well I got behind so I'm going to the next game?
I decided to test this theory tonight...
I did one attack on people...and simply told them I am better than you, you can just quit now. GG. I actually had 5 people leave the games. Some guy whose playing a strategy game to beat you, told you to quit so you actually did...
I really do not remember this being a problem in the SC1 and BW days...but every night I get a game where someone leaves just because of the following.
1. ling ran by got a few kills more than it should have 2. VR rush failed 3. Terran stim push attack failed 4. 4 gate attack failed.
I play zerg mainly. I play to expand and take over the map. I play very artosis like, in methodology. Expand get ahead, get more ahead, get money to insta remax. at that point go take 200 army and kill them. Get upgrades while doing all of this.
I don't cut drones to ling rush or roach rush all in people. I make them attack me... my scouting is usually just enough to maybe get into a mineral line and do some damage, enough to show harassment, but never enough to kill early on.
I'm a casual, player but I'm telling you the more I ladder the more I want to quit sc2 because everyone quits 12 minutes in. why oh why I do not know...
* People dont ladder for the same reasons you do * People are different to you * You come across as a jerk * Some people just play for fun
I leave some long games sometimes when the opponent decides he doesnt want to attack but sit and waste time. I leave because its just points, because its boring, because regardless of the outcome I will not get any gratification and I leave because in the time it takes to kill or be killed i could have played 3 or 4 more interesting games.
You said you're bronze and you're winning games left and right because 1) you're better than them and 2) they early gg? Keep laddering and you'll find players who won't early rage quit. I haven't had your problem in Diamond or when I was in Platinum. Your opponents are Bronze for a reason
Well, I'm in the exact opposite position. People try to do something stupid, fail miserably, and for some odd reason they don't leave and the game becomes a 20min 'I'm just waiting for you to RQ, I'm not attacking into turtlers" fest, until my opponent gets mined out and tries to attack me only to find its a 5 base vs 1.
VR rush and 4gate are pretty allin and, if they don't work, it is really hard to comeback from it, so there is no problem leaving after that. stim timing may not be that much, depending on how many barracks were used.
Some people are playing to learn. Staying in a game where you know you have lost (meaning you cannot come back unless your opponent makes a mistake on their end), you can learn nothing else in that game. People have already experienced the mistakes that have resulted in their loss so there is no further reason to stay if you are playing to learn. They can reflect on those mistakes if they are trying to improve rather than wasting time, hoping their opponent makes a mistake.
Staying in longer is often considered impolite and a waste of time. You are dragging on a game that has realistically ended.
There's a reason these people are in bronze league. If you want to face against decent competition, where people don't just up and leave the game when an attack fails or the game goes beyond 15 minutes, I recommend improving and getting promoted to a higher league, where you're more likely to face people that actually try to play competitively.
yeah...my zvz is horrible its holding me back terribly... banelingz should be removed from zvz
On February 20 2011 11:57 Frack wrote: * People dont ladder for the same reasons you do * People are different to you * You come across as a jerk * Some people just play for fun
I leave some long games sometimes when the opponent decides he doesnt want to attack but sit and waste time. I leave because its just points, because its boring, because regardless of the outcome I will not get any gratification and I leave because in the time it takes to kill or be killed i could have played 3 or 4 more interesting games.
In short, let people do whatever they want.
I didn't know 8 minutes into a game was a long game...
I did one attack on people...and simply told them I am better than you, you can just quit now. GG. I actually had 5 people leave the games. Some guy whose playing a strategy game to beat you, told you to quit so you actually did...
i would leave too i don't like to deal with BM children.
On February 20 2011 11:57 Frack wrote: * People dont ladder for the same reasons you do * People are different to you * You come across as a jerk * Some people just play for fun
I leave some long games sometimes when the opponent decides he doesnt want to attack but sit and waste time. I leave because its just points, because its boring, because regardless of the outcome I will not get any gratification and I leave because in the time it takes to kill or be killed i could have played 3 or 4 more interesting games.
In short, let people do whatever they want.
I didn't know 8 minutes into a game was a long game...
yea your zvz is the only thing holding you back from diamond league not your mechanics at all people GG when they know they've lost
What's the point in staying on when it's clear you are pretty much out of the game, e.g. 1 base timing fails or he kills the majority of your workers etc, there simply isn't.
You're better off leaving and getting a new game rather than spending another 5minutes wasting your time hoping for him to make a colossal mistake, before he ultimately crushes you.
People play to learn. Morrow and probably some other progamers prematurely quit ladder games all the time when he was learning to play as zerg. The extent of which is if he loses a scouting overlord, he quits. He then just find another game so he can learn faster. Not only that, it also avoids having bad habits ingrained into your playstyle.
Also, Failing VR rush, 3 rax, and 4 gate are generally instant loss in higher lvl play unless you do significant eco damage. They might be just trying to execute those "builds" properly and so are better of finding a new game.
Obviously these things does not always apply for low level players and for some of these people, the reason might be because of things you said. But in sc2 community, staying when you are in for a certain loss is considered very bad mannered.
Wait are you bronze or good as you say? In any case, people learning to play the game don't have a good sense of what they can come back from. They might not even know that workers can attack and what not. And people might quit once you start being an asshole. They could be little kids for all you know.
This just happens. Especially when people cheese/all-in and it fails. They don't know what to do after it fails, they've only practiced up to the point of the attack, if they don't win, they think they've lost.
why does this even matter? I havent understood that yet? seems like people get more mad over someone not saying good game, rather than actually losing..
Since it's bronze league, losing a few probes might not be significant however it's bronze and the players can't make the best decision either, so they might think they lost. They could be having a bad day/are annoyed by your attack/on a losing streak or w/e reason they don't feel to play it out. I for example hate chess games (as I play terran) and if my games go over 40min I just run in sometime and try my luck if it fails (mostly) I leave the game, no interest in that particular game anymore. Also I agree with what a lot of people said, people play for fun or to learn, trying your best to get back into the game is fun when it succeeds however, it mostly doesn't, it also doesn't teach you anything, unless you want to learn how to come back :-).
When I was in bronze I was just so bad and got overwhelmed so easily, I also couldnt remake my army fast and i just got so annoyed, overwhelmed, and just decided "Ill quit and try again" now I dont give up nearly as easily. though even when I did get over not quitting after a attack failed I was in silver but I just couldnt handle long games so I would quit if the game went long enough that I would NEED a third. Now I have no problem what so ever and got to 3100 point diamond, I think they might just have the same problem I did
On February 20 2011 13:26 underdawg wrote: Wait are you bronze or good as you say? In any case, people learning to play the game don't have a good sense of what they can come back from. They might not even know that workers can attack and what not. And people might quit once you start being an asshole. They could be little kids for all you know.
I don't recall saying I was good. All I said is I wouldn't quit. I'm pretty much a gold player more than likely if you take my terrible zvz out of it. I play a few times a week...night classes regular 8-5pm job...etc...if I played 2-4 hours a night I'm sure I would improve...
Making one statement doesn't mean your an asshole. If it does then take your emo *** home and and put your ear muffs on.
I play Zerg and I came across a Terran who had the exact same attitude as you and you know what he did? He lifted his last remaining 4 buildings and moved them to the corners of the map dragging the game out longer and forcing me to have to go air. This mindset and playstyle is not cool and you're not impressing anyone.
On February 20 2011 12:02 UruzuNine wrote: There's a reason these people are in bronze league. If you want to face against decent competition, where people don't just up and leave the game when an attack fails or the game goes beyond 15 minutes, I recommend improving and getting promoted to a higher league, where you're more likely to face people that actually try to play competitively.
But if you get too good, you might run into Idra, then you're back to square one.
The current ladder really encourages spamming games, so if you get behind early on, sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and head on to the next game.
People would rather play another game with a shot at winning as opposed to an uphill game that would be very stressful and difficult to win. It's not a tournament, games really don't matter. Basically you should be thankful that people aren't trying to prolong games that are over and accept that people will do what they want.
On February 20 2011 11:54 purecarnagge wrote: I really do not remember this being a problem in the SC1 and BW days...
i didn't play BW but i assume it didn't have as good of a match maker... in sc2 you are always playing the absolute bottom of the barrel players. why would you compare them to the people you played in BW?
if you want to play people who don't leave, try to make it to at least silver...
On February 20 2011 12:00 Dubz wrote: The actions of players in bronze ladder games cannot be interpreted logically
So true. My buddy is in bronze and he sent me a replay the other day. The build order the opponent did:
7 Gas 7 Supply 8 Engineering Bay 8 Hi-Sec Auto Tracking 8 Barracks 8 Bunker (+4 marines) 12 Lose the game
On topic though, people leave because they know when they are beat. It's actually rather impolite to drag games out like you say you do. Have respect for other people's (and your own!) time, and gg. Losing 6/7 workers in a run-by is a big freaking deal if it's early game, I don't blame anyone for that gg.
Actually there is a lot of truth in people in bronze leaving for no apparent reason after their first attack fails to kill you even if their attack was even trade in material and not all-in. Fortunately it gets better pretty fast higher in the ladder. And there are also some zergs that only 6 pool, every game, and quit immediately if they see a wallin or their attack does not kill you in 2 minutes One of my friends actually all-inned everyone in placement matches and ended up in platinum, when that stopped working he tried out broodlord rush and when that did not really work, quit 1v1s
On February 20 2011 11:54 purecarnagge wrote: I really do not remember this being a problem in the SC1 and BW days...
i didn't play BW but i assume it didn't have as good of a match maker... in sc2 you are always playing the absolute bottom of the barrel players. why would you compare them to the people you played in BW?
if you want to play people who don't leave, try to make it to at least silver...
match maker.... lol. Nah people in the Abyss were much more well mannered, 10 years and people had everything memorized, even in D - C the builds were so optimized that it was basically chess openings. There was no such thing as bottom of the barrel players even the d- players could own on bnet. In SC2 we have a mix of WC and other RTS gamers playing, some unfamiliar with the concepts. But on the Abyss if you lost, you gg'd and moved on to the next game. If you were one of those people who stay in the game, and make your opponent kill your very last building... then you wouldn't get a game after that..
Don't read too much into it, you have to remember that even our great SC community is still just a portion of Humanity, and if you'll remember from the literally billions of examples through history and current... Humanity is pretty goddamn stupid in many ways.. It only makes sense that there would be some in SC2..
Don't let it get you down though! There are great people out there, and even if you only meet 1 in 10, that 1 is sometimes worth the 9 worthless morons you have to deal with, although it can get depressing to see how many depressingly stupid people are in the world, I find it's better to try and stay positive and avoid getting too jaded, even if it's only for your own sanity.
GL mate, and keep at it! Don't let others ruin your hobby for you!
On February 20 2011 14:20 mcc wrote: Actually there is a lot of truth in people in bronze leaving for no apparent reason after their first attack fails to kill you even if their attack was even trade in material and not all-in. Fortunately it gets better pretty fast higher in the ladder. And there are also some zergs that only 6 pool, every game, and quit immediately if they see a wallin or their attack does not kill you in 2 minutes One of my friends actually all-inned everyone in placement matches and ended up in platinum, when that stopped working he tried out broodlord rush and when that did not really work, quit 1v1s
Even by the top of bronze, players start doing mostly sensible things. The difference between high bronze and low diamond is really just mechanics, for the most part.
often when ppl do all in builds they just leave when it fails, but bronze people will leave or stay sometimes without having any knowledge of whats going on at all
Why would you drag on a game that you know you lost? Like everyone else has mentioned you're just wasting time, just gg, leave so both of us can click find match and play another game.
Personally, I play to improve, and I play to learn, if I already beat you, thats as much learning I'm going to get out of the game, and same for the person I just beat, theres no sense in making me find every last building you have and killing it, I gain nothing, you gain nothing.
When you lose, gg, and leave for the benefit of both persons.
Bronze people fail to make any more than 20 probes and think that that's all they can work with. Plus, in that league, people only practice executing their cheeses and if shit hits the fan, they don't know how to transition out of it.
i have players quit like that, but i usually know why. Like in zvz a copuple days ago they quit when i ran all my lings under their overlord (into their vision
On February 20 2011 14:55 Tatari wrote: Bronze people fail to make any more than 20 probes and think that that's all they can work with. Plus, in that league, people only practice executing their cheeses and if shit hits the fan, they don't know how to transition out of it.
That's big overgeneralization, especially since there is extreme difference between bad and good players in bronze. Bad ones are just like you describe : never expand, 6-20 workers, cheese and mass voidray , the good ones play somewhat correctly, just have bad execution, like forgetting building workers for periods of time, bad macro, bad multitasking and they sometimes do not understand the matchup(ie, expanding in PvP in close positions without having advantage), but they are expanding, having mostly good unit comps, trying to play macro game. Then there is third group, those that are resonably good at cheesing and know how to cheese
On February 20 2011 14:20 mcc wrote: Actually there is a lot of truth in people in bronze leaving for no apparent reason after their first attack fails to kill you even if their attack was even trade in material and not all-in. Fortunately it gets better pretty fast higher in the ladder. And there are also some zergs that only 6 pool, every game, and quit immediately if they see a wallin or their attack does not kill you in 2 minutes One of my friends actually all-inned everyone in placement matches and ended up in platinum, when that stopped working he tried out broodlord rush and when that did not really work, quit 1v1s
Even by the top of bronze, players start doing mostly sensible things. The difference between high bronze and low diamond is really just mechanics, for the most part.
ladder is retarded because its boring, no matter what rating people do 4 gates, or all ins because they want to end the game in 5 minutes and get high rating so they think "they're good." Only time you get a decent game on a ladder is when you fight a "known" player. Funner to do Customs with friends that are good.
On February 20 2011 13:26 underdawg wrote: Wait are you bronze or good as you say? In any case, people learning to play the game don't have a good sense of what they can come back from. They might not even know that workers can attack and what not. And people might quit once you start being an asshole. They could be little kids for all you know.
I don't recall saying I was good. All I said is I wouldn't quit. I'm pretty much a gold player more than likely if you take my terrible zvz out of it. I play a few times a week...night classes regular 8-5pm job...etc...if I played 2-4 hours a night I'm sure I would improve...
Making one statement doesn't mean your an asshole. If it does then take your emo *** home and and put your ear muffs on.
You spent 3 random paragraphs talking about your style when it had nothing to do with your point. You "insta remax." But cool story overall.
On February 20 2011 15:19 Popsycle wrote: ladder is retarded because its boring, no matter what rating people do 4 gates, or all ins because they want to end the game in 5 minutes and get high rating so they think "they're good." Only time you get a decent game on a ladder is when you fight a "known" player. Funner to do Customs with friends that are good.
What in the what now?
At 2500+ masters, you get some pretty intensive macro games that takes 30 min. I don't understand the OP .. if you are winning that easily - get in a higher league, challenge master league players.
Idra is notorious for seemingly quitting early, but it's because those games are already over in his opinion considering the caliber of the people he plays against. Bronze players though, are different and OP, you have a point in that pretty much anything can happen at the bronze level so why not try sticking around for a little longer.
I think that in many of the cases you've mentioned, people are losing opportunities to practice following up when the only strategies they know how to execute fail by quitting early.
The thing here is though, that not everyone's priority is practicing hard and improving. Some people just want to casually play and have fun, and playing 10 minutes longer in a game you know you've fallen quite behind is not a very attractive option for them. Some people will also just ragequit when they get angry about something that didn't go their way.
Just realize that people have different personalities while playing this game and try to understand them. Not everyone thinks like you do, and it's really their choice what they do with their games.
I did one attack on people...and simply told them I am better than you, you can just quit now. GG. I actually had 5 people leave the games.
I'm not sure why you did this though. I honestly dislike offensive BM more than anything.
I find exactly the opposite to be annoying, people who fail and then sit there and wait until you kill all their buildings or turtle and allow you to take the map. There is really no reason to try and do ridiculous comebacks, if you failed a 4-gate, just gg. There is no good reason to sit there try and expand, fail and then sit on ur ramp and throw forcefields until it's 200/200 vs.100/200.
i think its good to quit early. i see often in custom games against lower liges that they deny to gg out. As a result they missunderstand the game. To give you a example:
tvz: the zerg trys to 6 pool me and i defend. game is over but he dont leave. i want to test timing for my building so i just macro up. than i take my gold and kill his 3. game is over again but he dont gg out. I take my 4 and 5 and harazz his main. He atacks with mass ultralist and my 33 rines killes them. After the game the z messige me: ultralisk sucks so bad what to build against mass rine in endgame? Lower lige see a long good macro game but the game was over after 6 pool an it was just me not killing him to train some building timings. if you gg out at the 6 pool you would think: k 6 pool is shit lets try something else and improve over time...
if you gg out after a big mistake you will remember this mistake. and know why you lost and have a chance to do better next game. if you stay in the game you start to forget what really lost you the game.
On February 20 2011 11:54 purecarnagge wrote: bread fear
I has it to, I'm allergic to wheat.
Just to point some things out.
1. You sound pretty arrogant for a bronze league player. 2. Telling someone you're better than them and they should quit is extremely rude 3. If a 3 rax or a 4 gate fails, you probably should leave, because you're probably going to lose unless you did good damage 4. If you won most of your matches you wouldn't be in bronze league anymore. Enjoy your wins, learn from your losses.
In bronze, if you kill 6 of their probes, it's probably all their probes. The higher up you get the more probes they have and the less prone they are to leave after they have lost 6 probes. Therefore you get longer games and better opponents, that's how matchmaking works.
Just keep doing the ling runby until you can't, then you know you are against someone who is better than you and you learn.
If something goes horribly wrong i dont want to practice recovering after playing bad, i want to practice not playing bad and ending up in that situation in the first place.
Also i pretty much know if i could possibly make a comeback or not depending on the situation. im not going to waste 10 minutes of my life when i know i have lost for the sake of "heart". Im a real person trying to practice, not some corny anime hero who magically wins games because of heart.
Staying in a game thats an uphill battle is one thing, I've actually found that there are a few times that I was thinking to myself, hmmm should I just leave and I stay in the game and end up winning because the opponent failed to capatalize. Of course with zerg its easier to drone up again.
You will find playing out a game that you think you lost is also good micro practice :D
A few of your Bronze League opponents quitting whilst they still may have a chance to win is not a great basis for questioning why a new generation of gamers are fearful (what?)
Ladder points aren't worth much. You are usually just wasting your and your opponent's time when you are badly behind and trying to come back. Better to just leave and go for another game.
If you are in tournament or something of course you want to try for that off chance for victory.
People quit because it makes no sense to invest more time in a game that you have less of a chance of winning than starting a new game where the odds are likely more favourable.
People think they're doing something right, while their play is full with tons of big/small mistakes that eventually leads them to losing unless their opponent makes even bigger mistakes. They don't understand why their build just does not work, or how their execution can be improved, or why that unit X does not kill anything like they expect to. When that happens, they get frustrated and leave. Simple. It happens to everyone at the beginning.
Today I blue flame dropped a Zerg rushing Mutas after a speedling opening. he lost 16-18 drones. He had 4-5 mutas and I did not have enough marines but a good amount of well placed turrets to defend my main. When I had enough rines, he just could not harrass me. I expanded behind my helion drop, and got 4-5 Tanks, a Thor, and 15 or so rines with +1 vehicle and +1 infantry. With this setup, I proceeded to take my third.
Then he attacked me, Had 3 siege tanks with all the rest of my army there, he literally a-moved everything he could muster, +1 siege tank demolished every ling/bling and my stimmed marines+thor cleaned mutas (something like 10-12) in 3-4 seconds since he did not magic box. At that point, he probably felt too frustrated. He took a big hit to his economy, his game plan did not work, he lost his entire army, I was up around 20 workers with a third expansion and a good tank/thor/rine force. If he did not leave, I would fortify my third, get more tanks/rines, and start slowpushing to his natural with tanks. He just would not be able to defend it. But it is not 100% that he thought about this and it was the reason of his leave. He probably got just too frustrated and at loss on understanding why his plan did not work. The reason is also the level of play in lower leagues, which is to be expected tbh, but this plan could win him games in any level below platinum which is probably why keeps trying it. I used to rush Muta when I switched to Zerg aswell, straight up one base muta. The reason for that was every T I faced did some fast bio push with marauders, and one base muta with ling can easily hold it (I thought). I would just expand after that. But, I noticed it not working later on, and then tried other builds like 15gas/14pool and then 14hatch later on. This is how you get better, so I think it is natural that people get frustrated at the beginning levels.
It is a mass conspiracy to get people like you to create less than interesting threads on TL.net -- but shh don't tell anyone..
Basically i would imagine it to be out of frustration; at a Bronze league level seeing 6 lings run into your mineral line and start killing off probes may be frightening - your multitasking isn't amazing so you feel you can't kill the lings quick enough and you just feel like you are so far behind.. so you just quit..
Another thing is frustration - when i get a build down perfectly and make a stupid fuck up like allowing a ling run by.. sometimes i GG straight away because i am so mad.. but thats the beauty of the ladder - you just hit find match and try it all again..
As you make it higher up the leagues, things will begin to make more sense..
On February 20 2011 14:20 mcc wrote: Actually there is a lot of truth in people in bronze leaving for no apparent reason after their first attack fails to kill you even if their attack was even trade in material and not all-in. Fortunately it gets better pretty fast higher in the ladder. And there are also some zergs that only 6 pool, every game, and quit immediately if they see a wallin or their attack does not kill you in 2 minutes One of my friends actually all-inned everyone in placement matches and ended up in platinum, when that stopped working he tried out broodlord rush and when that did not really work, quit 1v1s
Even by the top of bronze, players start doing mostly sensible things. The difference between high bronze and low diamond is really just mechanics, for the most part.
I'm #1 in my pool for weeks now..
I really need to figure out how to just win like 30% of my zvz's and i'd get promoted. lost 1x last night to a strong 4gate rush with chargelotz.
On February 20 2011 20:29 Bleak wrote: People think they're doing something right, while their play is full with tons of big/small mistakes that eventually leads them to losing unless their opponent makes even bigger mistakes. They don't understand why their build just does not work, or how their execution can be improved, or why that unit X does not kill anything like they expect to. When that happens, they get frustrated and leave. Simple. It happens to everyone at the beginning.
Today I blue flame dropped a Zerg rushing Mutas after a speedling opening. he lost 16-18 drones. He had 4-5 mutas and I did not have enough marines but a good amount of well placed turrets to defend my main. When I had enough rines, he just could not harrass me. I expanded behind my helion drop, and got 4-5 Tanks, a Thor, and 15 or so rines with +1 vehicle and +1 infantry. With this setup, I proceeded to take my third.
Then he attacked me, Had 3 siege tanks with all the rest of my army there, he literally a-moved everything he could muster, +1 siege tank demolished every ling/bling and my stimmed marines+thor cleaned mutas (something like 10-12) in 3-4 seconds since he did not magic box. At that point, he probably felt too frustrated. He took a big hit to his economy, his game plan did not work, he lost his entire army, I was up around 20 workers with a third expansion and a good tank/thor/rine force. If he did not leave, I would fortify my third, get more tanks/rines, and start slowpushing to his natural with tanks. He just would not be able to defend it. But it is not 100% that he thought about this and it was the reason of his leave. He probably got just too frustrated and at loss on understanding why his plan did not work. The reason is also the level of play in lower leagues, which is to be expected tbh, but this plan could win him games in any level below platinum which is probably why keeps trying it. I used to rush Muta when I switched to Zerg aswell, straight up one base muta. The reason for that was every T I faced did some fast bio push with marauders, and one base muta with ling can easily hold it (I thought). I would just expand after that. But, I noticed it not working later on, and then tried other builds like 15gas/14pool and then 14hatch later on. This is how you get better, so I think it is natural that people get frustrated at the beginning levels.
Im not sure you understand why people leave. In your example after you BF hellion drop and kill 16-18 drones, theres no way and I mean NO way the zerg comes back against a half competent player. You have to take some crazy risk and hope the terran doesnt scout it, like taking a gold or double expoing and pumping drones non stop for a few minutes while sitting on basically no army. The game is basically over at that point. Staying and hoping the other guy fucks up is possible, but really it has nothing to do with frustration or lack of understanding if you just leave.
On February 20 2011 12:00 Dubz wrote: The actions of players in bronze ladder games cannot be interpreted logically
This I'm stuck in Bronze but have leaned so much from watching Day 9 that I can play around Platinum level. (Thank god for tapping) Almost every Bronze EU game is a one base Terran trying to out macro a 4 base zerg for me and it's just stupid. I often watch replays and see about 30 idle SCVs at his mined out main and 3 on his second. They spam static defence EVERYWHERE. I has someone proxy missile turret me yesterday at my ramp and when I looked at the replay he hadn't seen a spire (Hell I didn't even have one) I just don't understand how they make their decisions. That or I scout voidray rush go Phoenix and kill all his voids 10 then a bit later more void rays come and same result. In short Bronze is boring boring boring.
On February 20 2011 11:54 purecarnagge wrote: I ran a few lings by a few people today..and its not like I killed all there probes or anything..but they quit....I'm like you lost 6 probes... its bronze...its not like the end of the world.
I've had 6 people quit after there first attack failed or they were attacked first and didn't handle it the best... neither of these were make it or break it attacks....
AND
Why oh why...does competition bread fear to this new generation of gamers... Am I one of the few guys who just sucks but clings in every game and makes you beat me... I know when I've lost...but I sit there and i try to make you beat me. you would be suprised at how many times... ling run by's will get you back into the game in the lower bronze leagues...
Does this new generation of gamers lack heart/dedication? They just go well I got behind so I'm going to the next game?
I decided to test this theory tonight...
I did one attack on people...and simply told them I am better than you, you can just quit now. GG. I actually had 5 people leave the games. Some guy whose playing a strategy game to beat you, told you to quit so you actually did...
I really do not remember this being a problem in the SC1 and BW days...but every night I get a game where someone leaves just because of the following.
1. ling ran by got a few kills more than it should have 2. VR rush failed 3. Terran stim push attack failed 4. 4 gate attack failed.
I play zerg mainly. I play to expand and take over the map. I play very artosis like, in methodology. Expand get ahead, get more ahead, get money to insta remax. at that point go take 200 army and kill them. Get upgrades while doing all of this.
I don't cut drones to ling rush or roach rush all in people. I make them attack me... my scouting is usually just enough to maybe get into a mineral line and do some damage, enough to show harassment, but never enough to kill early on.
I'm a casual, player but I'm telling you the more I ladder the more I want to quit sc2 because everyone quits 12 minutes in. why oh why I do not know...
Then you should play me. But seriously man, I hang in until I'm dead. In bronze, there's always the chance that your opponent won't suspect your expansion and then.... you pwn their main.
Staying in longer is often considered impolite and a waste of time. You are dragging on a game that has realistically ended.
I agree. But you see people in GSL staying in for 5 minutes when they've clearly lost...
Yes, but GSL is the biggest tournament in the world, and people want to see if they can make a comeback. On ladder that's just dumb because it doesn't matter.
I'm surprised at how many people are saying they stay in until they are literally unable to continue playing. IMO that's really BM and I can't stand it when people waste my time. Sure, I may not be of importance to you, but it's really a waste of your time as well. If I'm behind, I tend to give it 1 more go, if I lose the battle, chances are I've lost the game. So it's a quick GG then it's onto the next one. I don't sit down and play 1 game a day, and I'm assuming most of you don't either. Why care so much about just 1 ladder match? If you lose, so what! Rather than wasting more time, throw down the GG, go watch the replay, and get into your next game that much faster. Don't bank on your opponent messing up, learn why you slipped and don't make the same mistake next time.
You are bad and you play against bad players - on a higher level you will actually see people pretty often leave after a mistake that seems to be a little blunder (make 2 ovis instead of 1 in a zvz) but is actually a huge deal - making 2 overlords at 15/16 supply is pretty much a lost game, yes you can still hang in the game and hope for a lucky baneling but in most cases its just a waste of time.
I find myself often times leaving after i scout that my opponent had a hidden base for 2 minutes even without attacking him when iam sure that i can only win if my opponent is making a ridicilous mistake. Most people dont really understand why Idra leaves a game after a cannon/bunker goes up - but the game is actually over if you go 15 hatch get blocked out and you have to cancel it because you will be behind in tech, you are behind in economy and you have to waste money for units you cant do anything with. If id play in a tournament i would stay in the game and try to make something happen but when iam laddering i just leave these games because i try to keep a positive mindset - i dont care if i lose to something cheesy or a certain allin tactic. But i sometimes get really mad if i lose a macro game due to a stupid engagement or bad scouting.
Well,they're in bronze for a reason and being a rage-quitter is as good as any to be in bronze. You won't have as many early quitters when get higher up in the ladder.
Many times I will quit games based on how aggressive with mutas the opponent is. I don't want to play 25 minute game fighting tooth and nail for every production structure, supply ect. The kind of people who force a 30 turret ball I just don't even want to play against.
SC2 doesn't have much "swing." Once you get a little ahead, you get more ahead, and you likely will win. Or once you get behind, you'll get more behind, and then you lose.
Look how quickly some pros GG (i.e.: Idra), and you'll see it's not confined to the lower leagues.
I wouldn't put "competition" and "bronze" in the same post... Seriously that's probably the reason. They quit too early and never learn so they stay in bronze.
On February 20 2011 12:00 Dubz wrote: The actions of players in bronze ladder games cannot be interpreted logically
This I'm stuck in Bronze but have leaned so much from watching Day 9 that I can play around Platinum level. (Thank god for tapping) Almost every Bronze EU game is a one base Terran trying to out macro a 4 base zerg for me and it's just stupid. I often watch replays and see about 30 idle SCVs at his mined out main and 3 on his second. They spam static defence EVERYWHERE. I has someone proxy missile turret me yesterday at my ramp and when I looked at the replay he hadn't seen a spire (Hell I didn't even have one) I just don't understand how they make their decisions. That or I scout voidray rush go Phoenix and kill all his voids 10 then a bit later more void rays come and same result. In short Bronze is boring boring boring.
Yep, playing in Bronze league really feels like playing against computer AI.
do you expect to get good games against bronze opponents? ...if a terran all-in, void ray rush or 4 gate fails they are dead unless your opponent stops playing. you can either get better so you play better players or just play custom games with macro-oriented players if it bothers you that much. no one has fear of you silly boy...if people feel the game is over they usually leave. you sound so c wordy.
On February 20 2011 11:57 Frack wrote: I leave some long games sometimes when the opponent decides he doesnt want to attack but sit and waste time. I leave because its just points, because its boring, because regardless of the outcome I will not get any gratification and I leave because in the time it takes to kill or be killed i could have played 3 or 4 more interesting games.
Most of the long games are the greatest games, its unfortunate you won't be in these situations as much as other players because they're a blast. =] Also being aggressive by taking expansions and making it YOUR burden to attack is a play style it's not boring in the least.
On February 20 2011 20:29 Bleak wrote: People think they're doing something right, while their play is full with tons of big/small mistakes that eventually leads them to losing unless their opponent makes even bigger mistakes. They don't understand why their build just does not work, or how their execution can be improved, or why that unit X does not kill anything like they expect to. When that happens, they get frustrated and leave. Simple. It happens to everyone at the beginning.
Today I blue flame dropped a Zerg rushing Mutas after a speedling opening. he lost 16-18 drones. He had 4-5 mutas and I did not have enough marines but a good amount of well placed turrets to defend my main. When I had enough rines, he just could not harrass me. I expanded behind my helion drop, and got 4-5 Tanks, a Thor, and 15 or so rines with +1 vehicle and +1 infantry. With this setup, I proceeded to take my third.
Then he attacked me, Had 3 siege tanks with all the rest of my army there, he literally a-moved everything he could muster, +1 siege tank demolished every ling/bling and my stimmed marines+thor cleaned mutas (something like 10-12) in 3-4 seconds since he did not magic box. At that point, he probably felt too frustrated. He took a big hit to his economy, his game plan did not work, he lost his entire army, I was up around 20 workers with a third expansion and a good tank/thor/rine force. If he did not leave, I would fortify my third, get more tanks/rines, and start slowpushing to his natural with tanks. He just would not be able to defend it. But it is not 100% that he thought about this and it was the reason of his leave. He probably got just too frustrated and at loss on understanding why his plan did not work. The reason is also the level of play in lower leagues, which is to be expected tbh, but this plan could win him games in any level below platinum which is probably why keeps trying it. I used to rush Muta when I switched to Zerg aswell, straight up one base muta. The reason for that was every T I faced did some fast bio push with marauders, and one base muta with ling can easily hold it (I thought). I would just expand after that. But, I noticed it not working later on, and then tried other builds like 15gas/14pool and then 14hatch later on. This is how you get better, so I think it is natural that people get frustrated at the beginning levels.
Im not sure you understand why people leave. In your example after you BF hellion drop and kill 16-18 drones, theres no way and I mean NO way the zerg comes back against a half competent player. You have to take some crazy risk and hope the terran doesnt scout it, like taking a gold or double expoing and pumping drones non stop for a few minutes while sitting on basically no army. The game is basically over at that point. Staying and hoping the other guy fucks up is possible, but really it has nothing to do with frustration or lack of understanding if you just leave.
I agree, but rushing to Mutas without any thoughts on long-term plan is not a good strategy that will defeat a competent player. What I'm trying to say is that there are bigger problems that prevent some people from playing better that they overlook and instead focus on stuff like "omg tank op" "mutas are great against T so I must get 30 without any other plan"
I always use my third 50 energy for scan and when I did that, I saw his spire go down at that right second. I had plenty of time to get turrets to cover pretty much everywhere. If you rush muta that fast (it was like 10min and he had 6-7 mutas, which is 700/700) . If you can't deal damage with that, you're dead. No matter what happens you won't be able to come back, because that 7 mutas could be a ton of drones. Add in the fact that my drop did tons of damage, there was no way he could come back.
Well what's the problem? This is good for you , you beat your opponent. Is a sign that you beat your opponents easily and you should move in a better league. Don't worry , as you move in higher leagues this won't happen anymore , instead you will get more and more late game situations.
When I play, and a I get a hard run by in to my main and a lot of probes get killed I also leave, I play on top 30 of my masters league and such fails gonna be severely punished, and I can go in to the next game instead of wasting my time
In my experience, if you're a bad player (which I am) and you stay in the game until your last building is about to die, all it does is crush your will to play more.
It's a lot better to just quit and try again. I remember losing to a cannon rush once on Jungle Basin. But I stayed in the game for like 10 minutes because I wasn't technically dead yet, even though there was no way I could possibly win. At the end I was just sitting there staring blankly at the screen as my last pylon was being razed and my opponent said "gg. you never gave up"
If I am behind I could come back. But under what circumstance? That my opponent makes a big mistake.
Seems like a waste of time to me for hoping for such a situation. So I quit in those situations and try to not make the same mistakes again which ended me in the losing position.
On February 20 2011 11:54 purecarnagge wrote: I did one attack on people...and simply told them I am better than you, you can just quit now. GG. I actually had 5 people leave the games. Some guy whose playing a strategy game to beat you, told you to quit so you actually did...
Winning ladder games really doesn't matter. Most people just are into SC because the game is fun and most of the community is pretty good natured about things (something you don't find in a lot of other games). I wouldn't play against you either. If you think your behavior and your opponents' reactions say anything about anyone other than you, you're incredibly narrow-minded.
I think a big factor is that people watch misinforming commentators that overemphasize the damage that is done when a harvester or three get sniped. Also, coinciding with this, most people consider themselves, and their opponents, as "on par with progamers" when they play, so a tiny loss of a few probes suddenly, in their head, becomes insurmountable damage.
When I'm in the mood to really sit down and practice I usually leave whenever I make a potentially game changing mistake. Of course, there are ways to fight your way back into a game through sheer luck or by outplaying your opponent enough, alternatively him making similar mistakes. But it doesn't really matter to me. If I fail an attack horribly, stay food blocked for a long time without noticing it, lose my first scout prematurely etc. I'll gg and leave. By never letting myself get away with retarded mistakes I learn to not repeat them. Always assume the opponent won't be making any major mistakes and plan for the worst. :D
EPT
