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Is game knowledge really important for a caster? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
February 16 2011 22:48 GMT
#161
Yeah, Khaldor was great as assembly, not to mention the korean casters that I have watching for 3 years... I can't understand about 99% of what they are saying, but they're are very good to listen to as the emotion they put into it is great
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
thebigdonkey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States354 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 22:52:52
February 16 2011 22:51 GMT
#162
On February 17 2011 07:44 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 07:34 RoyalCheese wrote:
On February 17 2011 07:25 jackrandomsx wrote:
On February 17 2011 06:24 TheBanana wrote:
On February 17 2011 06:01 RoyalCheese wrote:
I love how so many people compare Starcraft and football/other sport casting. Don't you realize it's totally different? StarCraft is so much more complex and so much faster then most of these things. If you want to compare the casting of StarCraft to anything, you should compare it probably to
chess or some other intellectual sport.


I'd put NFL up against SC2 in complexity any day.



QFT, i think a thing or two could be learned from how commentary has developed in sports over the years. There's so much more to commentary then knowledge and prediction, you're crafting a narrative around the events as they unfold.

Joe Buck is probably one of the most celebrated commentators in the history of sports, having done both the world series and the super bowl on many occasions. The man's never played a professional sport in his life but he's incredibly good at his job. At this stage in SC2's development, it will certainly appear that a pro/ex pro would be the most ideal choice based on his/her prolonged exposure to the game relative to a layman, but as time goes by, that natural advantage will begin to diminish and you will see more and more talented commentary coming from the layman side of things.

I'm not american so i can't really comment on american football, but i find it hard to believe that its as complex in as fast pace as starcraft. Don't get me wrong, i don't disagree that one does have to be progamer to be good caster. But i think one should still know a lot about the game he casts, about the scene, community, history and so on.



American football is not as fast-paced as SC (because you have 40 sec. waits in between plays) but it's easily as complex if not more so. Correct play calling and execution involves a lot of strategy and huge playbooks, which is why football teams rely on such large coaching staffs.


I don't really agree. Perhaps from a player's perspective, NFL football is as complex as SC2, but from an announcer's perspective, it's pretty straightforward to call the action live. The instant replay analysis in NFL football is admittedly much more complex than the live analysis, but there is no instant replay in SC2 so I don't think it's a very good comparison.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15646 Posts
February 16 2011 22:51 GMT
#163
Any time I hear someone commentating, if its obvious they are anything less than like 3k master league, I can't stand it. Nothing is more annoying than someone giving their predictions/opinions when they are straight up wrong.
Moody
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States750 Posts
February 16 2011 22:55 GMT
#164
Is game knowledge important to be a caster?? What the f......Yes. Absolutely. If a caster says something in a "Matter-of-fact" manner, and is flat out dead wrong... they lose alot of credibility.

In the video posted earlier where it was announced that she would be casting code A, she said something to the effect of: "Well, after a fast expansion, he needs some type of quick defense against this 2 rax pressure build. We'll probably see a zergling all in." wtf? I literally shook my head in disbelief, messed up my hair and everything.

I saw her cast another game with Ipp. TvZ on lost temple, cross positions. Terran - 10 supply, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15 orbital 19gas. 1 rax, 1 fact 1 port. She say's something to the effect of what a strange build the Terran is doing, and how he will not be able to support the 3 buildings on one base. The whole time Ipp is politely saying something like "No.. this is just a 1-1-1... it's completely normal." And she argues with him.

I'm ok with a caster not being able to give me in depth, hard core, piece by piece analysis of a game, but when they try to act like that's what they are doing, and clearly don't know what they are talking about, it drives me bat shit crazy.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Where's the counter?"
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 22:59:44
February 16 2011 22:55 GMT
#165
There is nothing more annoying than listening to someone who does not know what they are talking about. Based on what I`ve seen from her, she is pretty bad and needs to either stop talking in a 'matter of fact' style or just straight up do play by play and drop any discussion of strategy because she clearly is lacking in that area. Maybe she is not exposed to higher level play?

Hopefully she is co-casting with someone and her role is JUST to analyze what is actually going on(play by play) and not play the role of Artosis (i.e. talking about strats, etc)


holynorth
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States590 Posts
February 16 2011 22:58 GMT
#166
I agree with the majority in that I cannot stand when someone talks about something they don't know. Annoys me in general life, and it annoys me on casts.
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
February 16 2011 22:58 GMT
#167
The CASTER only needs a basic knowledge of how the game works, enough so that they can explain what's happening to the casual viewer. It is NOT the caster's job to provide detailed analysis or accurately predict what will happen in the future. Even in real sports, the caster (and analyst, for that matter) make incorrect assumptions and predictions about the match, players, decision-making, etc.

It is the caster's job, and it is their only job, to relay to the casual viewer the basic information of the game. What's happening (a large tank/marine force is putting pressure on a zerg with only lings and banes), who's 'winning' (or has the advantage currently, or control of the map), and do it in a way that a casual viewer will understand and be entertained by. It does not matter if they are wrong, they are only the caster.

The COMMENTATOR is supposed to be the analyst during the cast. It is the commentator's job to provide detailed analysis of the match, explain popular strategies, strengths of builds/unit compositions/army positioning, predict what will probably happen, analyze and point out unit advantages, tech paths, etc... The commentator MUST have a deep understanding of the game to be successful.

TL;DR - The caster needs nothing more than a basic knowledge of how the game works, and must explain what's happening in simple terms for the casual viewer. The commentator MUST have a deep understanding of the game, because it's their job to provide analysis on the match.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
February 16 2011 23:01 GMT
#168
There's a reason the best casters are Day9, Artosis, Incontrol, Gretorp and Chill. Knowledge. (Sry if i forget anyone)
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
February 16 2011 23:01 GMT
#169
On February 17 2011 08:01 Twistacles wrote:
There's a reason the best casters are Day9, Artosis, Incontrol, Gretorp and Chill. Knowledge. (Sry if i forget anyone)

But we have TotalBiscuit who knows little about the game and is yet arguably one of the most entertaining casters to listen to.
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
February 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#170
You're probably right. A caster doesn't need that much in-depth game knowledge to cast what's going on. Torch will be the commentator and he's pretty much as good as Artosis in terms of gaming skill so he'll do a lot of the analysis. I think they picked the girl because she's a girl and she'll entertain us boys as a caster.
Marines > everything
mapthesoul
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 23:05:37
February 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#171
Game knowledge, is in my opinion, the least important thing in commentating. I don't mind watching a caster who doesn't know a lot, as long as he or she doesn't pretend to be very knowledgeable.
That's why Totalbiscuit is a great caster. He's not pretending to know much about the game. He just knows he's there to be a great play-by-play caster who brings excitement into every match.

That being said, I'm sure Kelly probably has good knowledge of the game as she's apparently been casting and playing it quite a bit.
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
February 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#172
It's not that important for players but if we want everyone to be able to understand the game (and its necessary if we want it to grow as an esports) casters need to be able to explain situations and be enthusiastic about it even though it doesnt look like much is going on. Ei: 4 gate means nothing to the non-player so casters need to know that this is a tense moment in the game...They covered the topic pretty will in State of the Game ep 25
Try another route paperboy.
chocopan
Profile Joined April 2010
Japan986 Posts
February 16 2011 23:08 GMT
#173
Game knowledge is a factor but not the only factor. It's also something that a caster can chose to improve/study should they so wish.

Go Kelly!!
Dance those ultras
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
February 16 2011 23:08 GMT
#174
But as for the GSL, I guess we should have people like Tasteless and Artosis because from what I can observe, most of the people watching the GSL are hardcore players from TL. But looking at the viewcount of one video, something tells me that statement is way off.
Naphal
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2099 Posts
February 16 2011 23:11 GMT
#175
once i watched a german cast with a guest commentator from another game or so, and he said something like

"oh look, the raven shot the dropship down"

when in fact two vikings were behind the raven and he mistook the raven as the source of the fire....

to that extend, yes, a basic insight into the game is very important, but it is not so important to be a semipro as well, because i also get annoyed by too many predictions and assumptions, (this guessing leads nowhere and is only acceptable earlygame imo) so lets simply see if the new codeA casters provide us with good service!
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
February 16 2011 23:16 GMT
#176
But a lot of guessing seems to simply be fillers while talking. It is really hard to keep on talking and talking even when nothing exciting is going on.

This may be less relevant but many of the crappy commentators probably have great game sense, but not good enough to immediately guess correctly what the opponent is doing when they see a gas up at a specific timing. Most people usually think things out.
megagoten
Profile Joined October 2010
318 Posts
February 16 2011 23:19 GMT
#177
i believe the bar for game knowledge for casting raises as the level of play increases.
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
February 16 2011 23:22 GMT
#178
I think game knowledge to a certain extend is as important as passion.
If you lack one of those, the casting suffers.
The example that pops into my head is football commentators: german football commentators are headaching, because they either say things that seem to imply they have never kicked a ball in their life because they don't know anything about the game, or they know very much facts and statistics but sound like a robot. Though I prefer the later when I had to choose.
So game knowledge is a crucial requirement for a caster in my oppinion.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 23:29:20
February 16 2011 23:28 GMT
#179
I don't think casters need a tremendous amount of game knowledge to be good at their job. Wheat and Jason Lee are perfect examples of this. What they do need, however, is the presence of mind to not act like they do. What I mean by that is that personally, I don't mind simple casters that don't go in depth and only explain the basic things. When they pretend to know a lot more than they do and make inaccurate analyses and baseless predictions, that's when I get irritated and immediately mute them.

It's better to keep it simple and right, than analytic and wrong.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
AeonStrife
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States918 Posts
February 16 2011 23:32 GMT
#180
I think game knowledge is important to have as a caster. At least have better knowledge than what totalbiscuit has. I think Kelly is a pretty smart caster, and she will without a doubt improve improve her game knowledge as she will see the games first hand at Korea. Making something sound more exciting than what it is can only go so far so many times...
Whats worse...US Poltics or SC2 Balance Talks...
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