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On February 17 2011 08:01 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 08:01 Twistacles wrote:
There's a reason the best casters are Day9, Artosis, Incontrol, Gretorp and Chill. Knowledge. (Sry if i forget anyone) But we have TotalBiscuit who knows little about the game and is yet arguably one of the most entertaining casters to listen to.
Everyone has their own shtick and there will always be exceptions to the rule. Knowledge can only take you so far. I would agree many of our best commentators at the moment have a shitload of experience when it comes to the game. Still, there are many other skill sets, like voice and articulation, that can make you a great commentator like TB, the Vin Diesel-inator, DJWheat, etc.
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The worst thing that can happen is when a caster questions a player's decision because he lacks game knowledge. It is glaring and looks bad.
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You want two things when casting:
- Providing information
- Entertaining/hyping the viewer
You need to prosess basic game knowledge for sure. Kinda annoys me when casters don't know unit costs/map specifics, strats, etc. It's even better when one player has in-depth knowledge about the players' playstyle, etc. Entertainment is also very important. It's people like Artosis that make a situation more exciting by the way he uses his voice.
Women are disadvantaged at casting sc2 IMO. Since it's a "men's game", a common thought is that women are not as knowledgable as men, else they would be playing the game as well. But a lot more important, is that low male voices are considered more dominant than high-pitched voices. Being a caster requires putting yourself in that dominant role where you tell the audience what's going on.
So I'm not saying shes unfit, but her gender puts her at a disadvantage. Consider her as the Zerg of casters, if you will..
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Here's the fact of the matter: the best of the best of casters will be well rounded and not only be entertaining to the audience but also extremely knowledgeable about the subject that they are casting.
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There is a difference between not knowing something, and knowing it wrong. I'd rather have a doctor who doesn't know what I have and forwards me to a specialist, than a doctor who knows it wrong. Same applies to casters, there is absolutely nothing annoying about not commentating on technical details really, casting is just because watching a replay is boring, see Khaldor as an example, people really enjoyed it even though they couldn't understand it.
What's extremely annoying and just gets on my nerves is when people get it wrong, don't remember who but this one caster openly asked himself why this Terran build his command centre at his natural but in a weird spot and lifted it later and he was like 'I don't understand it, why doesn't he just build it right there, it's only a few inches apart' and I was like 'nrrghhh, he's doing that because he knows he has an overlord there and he doesn't want to give away his expansion timing', I mean, just not comment or notice it then and not openly ask why because it's frustrating for those who know what's the reason behind it.
edit:
Women are disadvantaged at casting sc2 IMO. Since it's a "men's game", a common thought is that women are not as knowledgable as men, else they would be playing the game as well. But a lot more important, is that low male voices are considered more dominant than high-pitched voices. Being a caster requires putting yourself in that dominant role where you tell the audience what's going on. Not sure why, but I always found a female British voice to be ideal for casting, not so much for commentating though.
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yes... its very important, hearing casters misinform people is quite irritating.
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Guys, I think you're missing out on the most important point here.
She's really HAAAAAWWWWT!!!!
No seriously. I can get past her German accent, because she is fineeee like no other! =)
Plus apparently she plays pretty well competitively at the amateur level. Who knew, right?
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On February 17 2011 08:01 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 08:01 Twistacles wrote:
There's a reason the best casters are Day9, Artosis, Incontrol, Gretorp and Chill. Knowledge. (Sry if i forget anyone) But we have TotalBiscuit who knows little about the game and is yet arguably one of the most entertaining casters to listen to.
I personally dont understand how anyone can listen to that guy. I cant handle him for more than a few seconds. He is one of the worst in my opinion.
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On February 17 2011 08:47 mytent wrote:
Guys, I think you're missing out on the most important point here.
She's really HAAAAAWWWWT!!!!
No seriously. I can get past her German accent, because she is fineeee like no other! =)
Plus apparently she plays pretty well competitively at the amateur level. Who knew, right?
Wow, get outside some more and grow up. She's basically your average Asian girl. And seriously? German accent? Wow.
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A play by play caster doesn't need a lot of game knowledge, just the basics, as long as they have a co-commentator that does have in depth knowledge they're fine.
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On February 17 2011 08:49 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 08:01 Shiragaku wrote:On February 17 2011 08:01 Twistacles wrote:
There's a reason the best casters are Day9, Artosis, Incontrol, Gretorp and Chill. Knowledge. (Sry if i forget anyone) But we have TotalBiscuit who knows little about the game and is yet arguably one of the most entertaining casters to listen to. I personally dont understand how anyone can listen to that guy. I cant handle him for more than a few seconds. He is one of the worst in my opinion.
Welcome to the world of subjective preferences. World would be pretty fuckin boring without em.
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Commentator and caster are semantics, really. You need game-knowledge in order to do either, and in both cases the more the better. Plenty of people get off on knowledge-less casters like Husky and TB but their popularity doesn't save them from their shortcomings. With Kelly casting the Code A, it probably will become unwatchable but TorcH might be able to save it, who knows. All I know is that I actually fell ill for a whole week after watching a few minutes of TB and Kelly cast together, and I actually enjoy watching TB if I'm in the mood for it, the combo was just too potent. I think the problem comes when the caster has very little knowledge of the game and also isn't entertaining and borderline outrageous like TB for instance.
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On February 17 2011 08:57 Space Invader wrote:
Commentator and caster are semantics, really.
No, you're wrong.
The caster and commentator, if done properly and professionally have very different jobs during a cast. The caster provides the BASIC information and play-by-play (Tasteless), while the commentator fills in any downtime with analysis (Artosis).
Is it a benefit if the caster ALSO has the ability and knowledge to be an analyst? Of course, it allows them to identify critical moments so that they can get all excited and emotional at the correct times. But timings, when you're a spectator and privy to all of the information in the match, are easy to pick up, and as such it doesn't require a vast repertoire of in-depth knowledge to be a great caster.
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It doesn't really matter if she has game knowledge, but she has to know how to cast, I mean look at Jason Lee, he asked the right questions and made all the right comments while casting and did a great job with pretty much zero game knowledge.
What's bad is that if a caster lacks game knowledge, but still keeps coming with game knowledge comments.
Like "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JULY IS KILLING TWO DRONES AND GOING 4 POOL THAT IS SUCH A POPULAR BUILD ON THE KR SERVERS RIGHT NOW AND IT'S ALMOST UNBEATABLE!", if you try to pretend like you've got more game knowledge than you really got you're eventually gonna get burned by it.
Instead of gambling and saying something like that, talk around it and let the co-caster go into it instead.
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On February 17 2011 05:55 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 05:40 RvB wrote:On February 17 2011 05:24 Bobster wrote:All up to personal preference. Some want the insight, some want the pure entertainment, some want the mix (either in a single person, or by combining one and the other - Tastosis!) There's people who do not care about game knowledge, and can appreciate enthusiastic casters that are purely entertaining without showing deeper insight into the game. Popular casters like Totalbiscuit, Khaldor, itmeJP, Tasteless or Husky are good examples for this, (albeit to varying degrees, obviously). Then there are the dryer analysts, who drop the game knowledge, know all the timings and BOs inside out and can correctly predict how a game will progress from a certain point on, but are themselves not the most entertaining persons to listen to. Examples for this type of caster would be most pro-gamers without casting experience, like Idra when he stood in during GSL1, Martijn from Assembly, that type. There's also the very rare breed of the caster that excels in several of these areas, people who are entertaining and funny, yet possess a deep knowledge of the game as well. Artosis, Day9, incontrol are names that come to mind immediately. I think the relevant caster skills would be (in no particular order) - Game knowledge - Analytic Ability - Quick Wit - Humour - Enthusiasm I think everyone agrees that a caster needs either a solid stat in every category, or has to truly excel in one or two categories to be worth listening to. Of course, caster duos add these up and in this way can make up for each other's weaknesses. And what the hell, just for fun, have some whimsical graphs on how I see some of the casters. >_> ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/GCn6L.png) I personally think people severly underestimate the game knowledge of Tasteless. I think ( but it's just speculation ofc ) that it's his job to get Artosis to analyze what I mean by that is that Tasteless is the one who has to ask the questions what he thinks every viewer is wondering so Artosis can explain it. I think he just plays kind of a role and he does it perfectly. On topic I think it's definetly needed that someone entertains while the other does the analysis. A lot of people wont watch if its only analysis while there is the more hardcore group that wouldn't watch as much if it was only entertainment. So they try to combine it to hook up as many viewers to the stream at all times it's just business :p. Oh yeah, absolutely. The balanced mix is probably your safest bet to get as many people to watch your cast as possible, from the pure entertainment seeker to the hardcore analyst. So applying this to the current topic (without actually knowing kellymilkies), I'd wager that Torch will take over the analysis part because he does have a decent amount of game knowledge and kelly will provide more of the play by play part. I guess we'll have to see how their chemistry and balance is to judge them as a casting duo. And because people seemed to enjoy them, another round of caster stats. All my personal opinion, obviously. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YhOSt.png)
Sorry to bump an old thread, but this came up as I was searching for stuff, and this picture was way too sexy to not bring back for people to look at again. I'm also interested in how people think casters have changed over the last 8 months, especially people like Husky, and maybe djWheat, as well as how newer big casters (Mr. Bitter, Rotti, dApollo) stack up. Well, those last guys aren't new per se, but they are maybe recently much more in the public eye.
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On October 15 2011 06:03 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 05:55 Bobster wrote:On February 17 2011 05:40 RvB wrote:On February 17 2011 05:24 Bobster wrote:All up to personal preference. Some want the insight, some want the pure entertainment, some want the mix (either in a single person, or by combining one and the other - Tastosis!) There's people who do not care about game knowledge, and can appreciate enthusiastic casters that are purely entertaining without showing deeper insight into the game. Popular casters like Totalbiscuit, Khaldor, itmeJP, Tasteless or Husky are good examples for this, (albeit to varying degrees, obviously). Then there are the dryer analysts, who drop the game knowledge, know all the timings and BOs inside out and can correctly predict how a game will progress from a certain point on, but are themselves not the most entertaining persons to listen to. Examples for this type of caster would be most pro-gamers without casting experience, like Idra when he stood in during GSL1, Martijn from Assembly, that type. There's also the very rare breed of the caster that excels in several of these areas, people who are entertaining and funny, yet possess a deep knowledge of the game as well. Artosis, Day9, incontrol are names that come to mind immediately. I think the relevant caster skills would be (in no particular order) - Game knowledge - Analytic Ability - Quick Wit - Humour - Enthusiasm I think everyone agrees that a caster needs either a solid stat in every category, or has to truly excel in one or two categories to be worth listening to. Of course, caster duos add these up and in this way can make up for each other's weaknesses. And what the hell, just for fun, have some whimsical graphs on how I see some of the casters. >_> I personally think people severly underestimate the game knowledge of Tasteless. I think ( but it's just speculation ofc ) that it's his job to get Artosis to analyze what I mean by that is that Tasteless is the one who has to ask the questions what he thinks every viewer is wondering so Artosis can explain it. I think he just plays kind of a role and he does it perfectly. On topic I think it's definetly needed that someone entertains while the other does the analysis. A lot of people wont watch if its only analysis while there is the more hardcore group that wouldn't watch as much if it was only entertainment. So they try to combine it to hook up as many viewers to the stream at all times it's just business :p. Oh yeah, absolutely. The balanced mix is probably your safest bet to get as many people to watch your cast as possible, from the pure entertainment seeker to the hardcore analyst. So applying this to the current topic (without actually knowing kellymilkies), I'd wager that Torch will take over the analysis part because he does have a decent amount of game knowledge and kelly will provide more of the play by play part. I guess we'll have to see how their chemistry and balance is to judge them as a casting duo. And because people seemed to enjoy them, another round of caster stats. All my personal opinion, obviously. Sorry to bump an old thread, but this came up as I was searching for stuff, and this picture was way too sexy to not bring back for people to look at again. I'm also interested in how people think casters have changed over the last 8 months, especially people like Husky, and maybe djWheat, as well as how newer big casters (Mr. Bitter, Rotti, dApollo) stack up. Well, those last guys aren't new per se, but they are maybe recently much more in the public eye.
Dude, thank you! This is WAY to sexy to not bring back.
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I think this thread gives HD too much credit. XD
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Yeah, Incontrol is a funny guy. But during casting, nothing can beat Tasteless. A bit unfair given that Artosis is a better co-caster than gretorp as far as being funny goes.
Tasteless has some quick wit.
Day9 less enthusiastic than HD???? Whhaaaa?
The casting archon is flat out the best, but the graph hardly represents this. Apparently if Day9 and Incontrol casted it would be better. While awesome indeed, I don't see them being able to know what the other is thinking well enough to compliment each other.
I like graphs, it's a nice idea. But so many people have varying opinions, it's never gonna be "The graph".
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Confidence
Entertaining
THEN
Game knowledge
At least for the masses, but I can't stand Code A casters because I value all 3 of those equally.
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It's hard to acknowledge your graphs when you put Tasteless' game knowledge below HD and DjWheat.  Still fun to look at, though!
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EPT
