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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
Since we will have a korean trained observer (right?), I don't really care who's "casting". Although, I like how Artosis comes up with lots of little tidbits about Korean players, that's always nice. Maybe we can get the same from Torch, especially considering there's like two billion Startale players in code A, and he's officially part of that team (token white guy!) But yeah, #1 thing: proper observing. Anything else is just gravy. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
There's 5 ST players in Code A, so lots of opportunities for Torch to drop them. :p | ||
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TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
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ziggymondais
United States238 Posts
When I was in college (a long long time ago in a galaxy far away), there was a guy who was getting his teaching credentials in History. While getting his degree, he published a great deal and was getting talked up a lot because of his knowledge of history (basically he had eidetic recall of everything he read), so he was well versed in the subject he was teaching. He graduated and got a job teaching upon graduation. He quit 4 months into teaching, and unfortunately went back to get his PhD in History. He quit because, as he told me when he returned to graduate school, he had trouble getting information across to his students. He was teaching as if he was teaching a graduate course on history as opposed to teaching a bunch of people who didn't know much about history in the first place. You can know every nook and cranny on one subject, but if you lack good communication skills that information becomes useless. You either bore people to death with minutiae or try and connect with your students. It's one helluva fine line, and only a few can walk that line. Teaching is an art. While you can learn to be a better teacher, most people burn out doing it and go on to do something else. Casting is an art. While you can learn to be a better caster, most people burn out doing it and go on to do something else. How many casters have come and gone over the past couple years? Here's an example of what I'm talking about if we want to talk about casters: Which night of Day[9] dailies get the most viewers? I would say it's Funday Monday, and the reason for that is that night he doesn't go as deep into analysis, so all of his potential viewers are engaged. Yes he does some analysis, but it's not nearly as deep as Day[9] goes on his usual dailies. I enjoy Funday Monday as much as I enjoy any of Day[9]'s casts, but I like deep analysis, but it might put others to sleep. When Day[9] casts a tournament, it's a different story altogether; he's really good at mixing analysis with enthusiasm, and by the way that's what a good damn teacher does. Mix passion with analysis and know how to connect with an audience. There are casters I don't mind listening to, but the majority of them I do like for various reasons. Few of them have an equal footing in being able to mix analysis with passion and get their point across to the viewer. But it really does make me irate when there is no passion at all involved in the cast (and hell, if you are showing the commentators on the stream and they look bored, how do you think the viewers are going to react). Look at the reaction to the German stream of Assembly, most people could not understand what he was saying, but the passion was there, and people were responding to it. So basically casting is not easy, having some deep understanding of the game is excellent, but if you are casting to a large audience (some of them are masters and some are bronze), a good caster can connect with all those folks and not make them feel disconnected from the cast. Once you start going in the wrong direction, you start losing viewers to someone who does cast in the way they want to hear. It's a hard line to walk for most casters. + Show Spoiler + There is also a matter of respect for casters. I prefer someone who gives back to the community, but that's just my own preferences. | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:23 Bobster wrote: That is a strange set of priorities, because I think that someone who is not able to do analytic commentating will probably miss a lot of stuff or is more likely to say things that are incorrect (because he lacks the game knowledge to back his arguments up). Just out of interest, what are some of the current SC2 casters you consider as great? I assume you'd hate someone like Day9 or Artosis? I like Day9 and Artosis. They are both funny, enthusiastic and do not annoy me. 3/3 Analysis in sports commentating doesn't annoy me, I just don't have a need for it. Edit: Saying something that's incorrect etc isn't necessarily annoying, it's about context. Edit2: I don't watch Day9s pure analytical stuff though, that's not for me. | ||
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PepperoniPiZZa
Sierra Leone1660 Posts
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Greggle
United States1131 Posts
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
Then, when the CC goes down, it's all "Wow, that's an early expansion, in fact he didn't even get gas!" Jason + Idra was fantastic, but I'm worried about Kelly + Torch. | ||
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cronican
Canada424 Posts
Is it possible to be a successful caster without it? Absolutely, there are plenty of them. Would those casters be better if they had better game knowledge? Of course they would. Game Knowledge is what separates good from great casters. I think that it's the #1 area a caster has to look at if they want to improve. | ||
Falling
Canada11496 Posts
However, enthusiasm, good commentator voice, good observing, and a decent play-by-play can make 80% of the cast. Pro-level game knowledge covers bumps it up from a B to an A. Some players would not work as casters- Idra casting was a treat, but I wouldn't want him to cast continually. LiquidTyler- probably my favourite Protoss player and a really great guy, but I wouldn't want him to cast on a regular basis- he's fine on SotG, he has interesting insight on his stream, and he can be funny when on an unknown substance, casting his own game. However, he seems too chill to get people super pumped during the game. Nothing against Tyler- we all like how chill he is, it just wouldn't be the most interesting cast. | ||
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
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whatthefat
United States918 Posts
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:06 mindspike wrote: You're giving a lot of perfect scores for enthusiasm which leaves no room for someone better in that area. And saying that Idra/Artosis have perfect game knowledge is just wrong. Man he just did it for fun. Don't be so serious. | ||
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
If a caster can blend in with the excitement of the match while showing enthusiasm, then they can be a great caster. It is very important for these casters to make basic analysis and not be incorrect with their statements. Luckily, a player like TorCH will undoubtedly help notice important things Kelly might not notice. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
Both Carrier and Um are the analytical commentators, both of them having a fair bit of enthusiasm to boot. But it's Jeon, who's game knowledge is nowhere near as deep as the other two, who has the iconic voice that gives the commentating a lot of its color and excitement. His voice surpasses the other two so much that its always him leading off the games or announcements. Game knowledge isn't as important for the caster if he/she's supported by good commentators. However finding a good caster can be difficult, and IMO I would take a male caster over a female caster anyday because male casters just sound better 99% of the time (see the OGN female caster -_- insta-mute if she's casting). | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
For example, Tasteless has less game knowledge than artosis, but I can tell he's good at his english. He knows his literature I think. If you look at Idra, he has a tendency to say 'nullify' a lot and other instances where you can tell he can't exactly say what he wanted. Also, I would think you would need a lot of charisma to get the necessary enthusiasm. Kelly sounds a lot like the female GSL korean caster. In that, its always talk talk. And because its a little harder to understand, its easy to compare since korean commentary is all gibberish to me. I can see why she is selected in this case. Whatever the case, I think gom will take public feedback into consideration after the season and make appropriate measures. | ||
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Baituri
Netherlands1501 Posts
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CatsPajamas
United States337 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:19 TheBanana wrote: I hate analytical commentating in any sport, that's not at all what I want from the commentator. I want the commentator to have contagious enthusiasm and to be funny. Another important thing is that they don't annoy me by missing stuff, pretending to know stuff they don't or saying things that are blatantly false. Like missing important drops or telling me that tanks counter void rays. If these 3 things are put together I'm a happy camper. Analysis is for coaches and players, not spectators. Bingo. The proper set up for casting is one exciting play-by-play guy and one analysis guy. The play-by-play guy takes the reins and does most of the commentating, probably 65% of it. They're the ones yelling, "OMG, BANELINGS COMING." And then everyone sits up and goes, "Wow, big explosion imminent!" If players are talking about the fine details of proper baneling timing when a million banelings explode, they've failed as casters in that they didn't convey the inherent excitement of the match. But, they do a nice job of feeding the analysis guy with talking points during lulls in the action to properly address strategy. This is the approach I take to casting, and it works really well. And I do believe that more game knowledge is always a plus. Even though my personal commentary may never get beyond, "Ooooohhh, 2nd gas before factory," as I'm the play-by-play guy, it still makes you more comfortable with your source material, which always helps. | ||
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Escapist
Portugal548 Posts
Also the casting duos usually work great aslong as the casters sort of "balance" themselves. What i mean is that i dont like two casters that scream from their lungs on each probe that gets killed but i dont want a casting duo that both of them only mention something when inbetween their naps. I like the concept of the deep insight caster + the play by play caster duo but for me it doesnt need to be like that everytime. Summary: im not very picky about casters and aslong as they dont go for any obvious errors im more than pleased to have someone keeping chains moving while i watch the game. Peace. | ||
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