VoidRay/Colossus in PvZ - IMBALANCED! - Page 43

On February 18 2011 17:49 O.P. wrote:
I had an idea that I need to throw out, with the usual apologies if this is redundant/unnecessary.

What if void ray damage doesn't stack? If two voids shoot the same target, only one does damage. Possible benefits/game changes:

* Void rays are no longer an all-kill unit, but a support unit.
* Death ball no longer insta-kills units.
* They can be buffed to previous stats, meaning that even though the death ball becomes weaker, individual voids become stronger.
* Some micro needed to make voids efficient, adding a game play element.

/my 2c

On February 18 2011 18:08 Alpina wrote:


Bad idea.

Actually voids are good as they are imo. They were really strong before, but after the nerf they are ok for their price. The problem is deadly collosus.^^

On February 18 2011 04:40 Xain wrote:
People need to remember that zerg can tech switch faster than protoss and the argument "well, if I go this, he goes that" is really a bad way to look at it, cause obviously the protoss can counter everything you do if he prepares for it enough.... as you can. The thing is, if you see his collossus/vr death ball moving out, you can pump out mutas way faster than he can pump pheonixes. Also, if he opens phoenix to prevent the mass mutas, and you go hydras to stop it, why would you blindly continue pumping out the same units? Queens + couple of hydras shut down any phoenix harass while you transition to air play and then you just have to decide the right balance of mutas and corrupters depending on his composition, and you actually have the time to do it and ajust quickly because of the way zerg works with larva.

Forcing a protoss to tech switch is more costly and time consuming for him than for you.

On February 18 2011 07:49 Starcraftmazter wrote:


That makes complete and perfect sense.


I think that the only zergs that have trouble with this build are the overly passive ones (like Idra) who rely on victory through taking the whole map, having a big army engagement, re-massing their army and wiping out the opponents. This is but one and only one way to play. If you go hyper aggressive at the start of the mid game, you could defeat it with a plethora of strategies.

Those passive zergs should learn to broaden their style and dare I say get out of the comfort zone every now and again and actually try and aggressively counter their opponent's build instead of hoping to win because of building lots of units quickly.

On February 18 2011 20:26 Mosin wrote:
2. Nexus -> stargate opening will get you 200 supply unit of deathball in 16 min mark. Zerg doesn't really have time windows to tech jump from this to that.

2. Nexus -> stargate opening will get you 200 supply unit of deathball in 16 min mark. Zerg doesn't really have time windows to tech jump from this to that.

On February 18 2011 20:33 MorroW wrote:

the thing is you cant really attack into a protoss that just sits in his base. colosus takes 3 seconds to walk upin main for a drop and 3 sec to walk back. voidrays aswell :S
sentry also stops any frontal attack

i think they mention this in the episode aswell

and if your talking about roach ling allins without lair then i say, voidrays are there in time and plenty of sentries.
and if you mean hydralisk 2base allin with speedoverlords for highway then the colosus comes in time for that and stops it

i think the best style against this is just massexpanding and then make a huge mutalisk switch after the first engagement. but again if toss knows whats up he stops make voidray colosus and masses up stalkers and makes an earlier timing and runs you over because your overgreedy

On February 18 2011 20:36 freetgy wrote:


i would really like if anyone could provide such a replay that shows maxxed Colossus/Voidray Army at the 16min. mark.

ty

On February 18 2011 21:05 Ribbon wrote:


When MC goes Forge FE, the nexus finishes at 5 minutes, at which point he has 100 gas. Then he starts the tech

Gateway - 65 seconds (6:05)
Cybercore - 50 seconds (6:55)
Robotics Facility - 65 Seconds (8:00)
Robotics Bay - 65 Seconds (9:05)
First Colossus = 75 Seconds (10:20)
Second Colossus = 75 Seconds (11:35)
Third Colossus = 75 Seconds (12:50)
Fourth Colossus = 75 Seconds (14:05)
Final Colossus = 75 Seconds (15:20).

So I can see why people might get believe that.

The reason it's wrong to think that, is that you can't support building a Colossus and 2 VRs at the same time. Even assuming you're spending your Chrono Boost elsewhere, Colos cost 160 gas a minute (250/75 * 60), and 2 gate VRs cost 300 gpm. That's a total of 460 gas per minute. According to Liquipedia, you only get 456 gas per minute off 2 base. So that's just more gas then you have (and switching to Phoenix consumes more gpm). So you can't maintain perfect production off two stargate robo, and you can't be chronoboosting that out. And you certainly can't be getting 2 VRs and a Colo while getting, say, Thermal Lance. No matter how good your macro is, things are gonna idle.

This also means, incidentally, that you can't go 2 gate Phoenix and still produce Colossi.



Also, no one commented on my Muta/Queen idea, and that makes me ;_;

On February 18 2011 21:05 Ribbon wrote:


When MC goes Forge FE, the nexus finishes at 5 minutes, at which point he has 100 gas. Then he starts the tech

Gateway - 65 seconds (6:05)
Cybercore - 50 seconds (6:55)
Robotics Facility - 65 Seconds (8:00)
Robotics Bay - 65 Seconds (9:05)
First Colossus = 75 Seconds (10:20)
Second Colossus = 75 Seconds (11:35)
Third Colossus = 75 Seconds (12:50)
Fourth Colossus = 75 Seconds (14:05)
Final Colossus = 75 Seconds (15:20).

So I can see why people might get believe that.

The reason it's wrong to think that, is that you can't support building a Colossus and 2 VRs at the same time. Even assuming you're spending your Chrono Boost elsewhere, Colos cost 160 gas a minute (250/75 * 60), and 2 gate VRs cost 300 gpm. That's a total of 460 gas per minute. According to Liquipedia, you only get 456 gas per minute off 2 base. So that's just more gas then you have (and switching to Phoenix consumes more gpm). So you can't maintain perfect production off two stargate robo, and you can't be chronoboosting that out. And you certainly can't be getting 2 VRs and a Colo while getting, say, Thermal Lance. No matter how good your macro is, things are gonna idle.

This also means, incidentally, that you can't go 2 gate Phoenix and still produce Colossi.



Also, no one commented on my Muta/Queen idea, and that makes me ;_;

On February 18 2011 21:42 xbankx wrote:

problem with muta queen is that pheonix and chase+kill a lot of muta before they retreive back to queen. I think best option is still muta corruptor.

On February 18 2011 18:17 Manimal_pro wrote:
this is true and there is a problem with the void ray collo combo, but what i really hate about protoss is the archon toilet. Blizzard please nerf the mothership