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Warning. Useless comments that are deemed to be flame/troll bait = ban. If you have criticism, thats fine but you better have amazing support to back up your opinion. Otherwise ban. | ||
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parn
France296 Posts
@artosis: Generally, the right thing would also be to add a couple of replays to each of your video/subjects, as illustrations. I know this is some extra work, but it will help a lot and save a tons of useless comments imo. What about some of your winning streak? | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
Zerg can defeat it with corruptor overkill (like 20-25 corruptors) after wich you remax wich roaches who then roll the protoss ground. | ||
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Bash
Finland1533 Posts
I see a lot of people are wondering about the mutalisk, it does "work" in a sense, but only if your opponent is absolutely horrible and neither pokes out onto the map without committing (which forces A TON of roach even if the protoss ball isn't at full capacity) or more simply doesn't scout. It requires you to have banked about 15-20 muta worth of gas to slam them out instantly, and also that the toss is horribly out of position and a victim of 1 control group syndrome. You then kill every single worker and force an allin with a relatively incomplete protoss deathball, which still has a better than 50/50 chance of killing you. I want to emphasize that this only works ON LADDER against bad opponents that are used to the overpowering unbeatability of their playstyle (in my case I've been doing it against 3k+ master tosses), and that no, there is no solid, reliable standard way of using mutalisks to beat this army composition as they don't stand a chance against the actual army of the protoss. | ||
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telfire
United States415 Posts
On February 16 2011 22:25 Anomandaris wrote: I am a little surprised they talk about it as a new build. If have replays if me using this since october, and at that time I stole it from Naniwa I think. It is a very old combo (but maybe new to korea?). Zerg can defeat it with corruptor overkill (like 20-25 corruptors) after wich you remax wich roaches who then roll the protoss ground. Did you watch the episode? If you build that many corrupters, Toss just stops making Colossus and focuses on gateway units and more voids (which actually counter corrupters). | ||
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johlar
Sweden165 Posts
20 voidsrays will lose to 40ish mutalisks and even though they have stalker support it doesnt matter. With descent upgrades on the mutas you will win, the protoss has no chance to keep up on upgrades on both ground and air. Also I have a somewhat hard time taking these "discussions" seriously, because you are already of the same opinion. It isnt a clash of points of view, its two guys who think alike stating what they see as facts. Having the same opinion doesnt fuel for a good debate :> | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
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RyanRushia
United States2748 Posts
On February 16 2011 20:56 theOnslaught wrote: Zerg. -Movement speed upgrade for hydras, on and off creep. Hydras are too expensive and die too quickly, they lack the versatility and effectiveness of even cheaper units like stalkers, marines or marauders. -Increase range by 2, so they're not fragile and can fight off colossi and tanks better (with marine balls of death). . increasing range by 2 so their total is now 8 (after hydra spines) or 7 (before hydra spine)? are you aware how badly that would be breaking the game? anything less than siegetank or extended thermal lance colossus would be completely overrun. and in mirror midgame would completely negate any type of muta or roach play as they would just get picked off way too easy. i believe that if you wanted their range increase it would require a damage nerf as DPS of a hydra is pretty crazy high anyway in regards to movement speed, i dont think an increase for speed ON creep is a necessity, as they are quick enough to be successful, but i agree a slight buff for off-creep speed could be quite helpful | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
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sykBelieve
22 Posts
I have a few points to make: - Don't fight Void Rays with Corrupters - Go for a timing push before Colossus, as Roach/Hydra destroys Gateway units - Bait forcefields as that is what allows Protoss to 'keep up' with Zerg's army early-mid game - Use speed ovies instead of overseers, constantly sac ovies when needed, they only cost 100 minerals and you have them lying around everywhere anyway - Harass Protoss - Harass Protoss more - Harass Protoss even more - GET T3 units... - Deny 3rd - Use Zergs strong points: + Abuse mobility + Play smart with tech switches A bit more in detail: Why do Zergs complain that a Colossus/Void at 200/200 is too hard to beat with Roach/Corrupter? Please realise that Colossus are 300/200, Voids are 250/150. They also build ONE at a time from 1 building with long build times. Zerg will say 'chronolulz', sure you can chrono and get the unit out faster, but your income WON't even come in fast enough to support constant chrono of colossus/void unless you're on 3+ base. Now, Zergs build from 1 structure, the Hatch - needing only 1 tech structure to SIMULTANEOUSLY pump out units, meaning that they can easily react to their opponent upon scouting. Mutas cost 100/100 and only take 33 seconds to build/2 food. Colossus take 300/200, 75 seconds/6 food, Voids take 250/150, 60 seconds/3 food. For every Colossus/Void built, it will cost the Protoss 550/350. That's about 4 Mutas, which I'm sure 4 Mutas built in 33 seconds can definitely take out 1 Void Ray... Corrupters DON'T counter Voids, why not use Mutas? Building a shit load of spines is much more useful than Speedlings if the Protoss decides to go for the push when you are harassing with Mutas. Spine crawlers can hold off Gateway units much easier than Speedlings do as they fall to Colossus rather fast. Also, a 'safe' Roach Warren should always be made. Roaches are SO FUCKING cheap for their ability to tank and decent damage. You will have more than enough minerals for Spines if going Mutas. I don't understand why Zergs complain building a tech structure is a waste of resources, a Roach warren would cost as much as 6 Zerglings.. Big deal? Now, you have the ability to morph larva into Roaches any time in the game.. I still find Roaches one of the most cost effective units in the early-mid game esp against Protoss. ZvZ Mass Roach with a few Infestor would even beat Roach/Hydra. They are also more larva efficient than Zerglings. Now, Colossus/Voids are T3 units.. Why do zergs respond with Roach/Hydra, T1.5/2 and complain? Zergs complain that equal food armies that Zergs will definitely lose. This is only true to the point that Protoss can get enough Colossus/HT's out. WHICH IS A FUCKING LONG TIME. Protoss also can't just mass up a Colossus/Void army without being vulnerable. The only way they can deal with tech switches is with Gateway units as Robo/Stargate units take so long to build. Protoss can only HOPE that their Gateway units can hold off Zerg until the higher tech reinforcements come into play. It is easy to say nerf Colossus but without Colossus, you will need to buff Storm upgrade time, or Gateway units but then this will heavily affect aggressive plays such as 4 gate. Air is not that hard to deal with as Zerg against Protoss, a few Corrupters OR spores in the mineral line can deal with Phoenix, and Voids are not so fancy with their slow movement and hefty cost.. Queens are great tanks/defensive units, too. Zergs simply sit back and macro when Protoss plays defensive and masses up their death ball. The Zerg needs to go for a timing attack before Colossus - this can even end games. If there you feel you can't beat the Colossi (you should have scouted before he got Colossus) then fall back, get another expansion and tech to Hive. Zergs need to keep Colossus numbers down, to maximise their unit efficiency in the late game. Zergs have it fine in the mid game as Roach/Hydra completely DESTROY gateway units - forcefield can level the playing field or even force a retreat with zerg but seriously, why not use speedlings to bait out forcefields? It isn't that hard. Zergs rely more on positioning than anything. Fight in the middle of the map - force the Protoss to use forcefields numerous times and his sentries will be useless in the main battle. He will HAVE to fight as he can't retreat. Forcefields keep Protoss in the early-mid game and without it they would get steamrolled. So how do Zergs counter this? Remove forcefields. Baneling drops on mineral lines are also easy to execute. Protoss suffers the most out of all 3 races with a hit in their miners. Zergs can redrone 10 at a time, Terrans have mules. It is true that Protoss have Chronoboost but it is not strong enough as the other 2 races. Baneling drops on the Protoss death'ball' is also extremely effective as units tend to clump up. The reason Colossus are so powerful is due to their splash (and range.) AOE damage means that units are cost efficient if they can kill more than 1 unit. Use banelings.. Fungle Growth is also a powerful spell, much life Force Field though less spammable. However, it deals damage and prevents spells such a blink etc. This is underused in ZvP and can delay pushes but I DO think Infestors are harder to use in ZvP than ZvT since Protoss units have more HP, and Feedback is easy to execute on the fat Infestors. Still, if you can delay pushes, it is extremely useful and can pay off - giving Zerg time to mass up more/the correct units. I always feel that Zerg playing the aggressor will always be stronger than the defensive Zerg. I hate the brainwashing of 'Zerg is a reactionary race.' EVERY FUCKING RACE is reactionary, if not then everyone would get steam rolled. Zerg can play the aggressor successfully, too. Protoss and Terran play harass against Zerg to force units, not drones. So you might ask: "Why do Zerg need to harass when they can sit back and drone up then roflstomp the opponent when on 5 base?" It's because Zerg don't scale as well throughout the late game when Protoss/Terran get AOE attacks due to the Zerg's low HP. So to counter this, Zergs need to keep the Colossus count low, snipe Templar Archives, etc.. How often do you see Zergs harassing? Hardly ever.. I think Zergs have the wrong mindset and are crying qq without exploring different playstyles.. If you read this please quote me and give me a reply, if you think I'm a total dumb cunt or if you think what I'm saying issomewhat true. I'd say Roach/Hydra is extremely strong until Colossus/Storm comes out.. So just deny the 3rd, keep Colossus numbers down and you should find it a whole shit load easier. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
GOM talks about this in their analysis/breakdown of Terminus RE One word can summarize the match-up between Zerg and Protoss: laser! The biggest concern is whether or not the laser Toss can be blocked. Laser Protoss is a build that constructs a Nexus early into the game then produces Phoenixes and Void Rays for keeping the enemy in check and scouting. Then Photon Cannons and building placements are used to hold off Zerg’s attack (rush) and finally Colossi are produced. Combination of Void Rays + Colossi + Gateway units boasts its destructive firepower against Zerg. The biggest merit of the combination is that the units are consisted of 3 layer structure. (Void Rays=Sky, Colossi=Able to overlap with ground units) The combination fundamentally has a good firepower and all the units move around together so the concentration of firepower is absolutely greater than the Zerg units. The weakness of the laser Protoss is that the build must be completed without the enemy harassment in the beginning. The fact that Terminus is a big map helps Protoss with such problem. However, since it is a big map, even if Zerg loses the initial battle, it will be able to hold off the attack by producing additional units from Hatchery quickly. Thus Zerg can employ strategies such as Hydralisk drop, 12~14 minutes into the game or harassing the enemy with unit combination of 17 minutes or later into the game supported by the quick unit production speed of Zerg. 3 line summary - Due to the distance between the bases, it is hard for Zerg to keep Protoss’ fast expo in check in the beginning. - The concentration of firepower is high for laser Toss due to its 3 layer structure. - However, Zerg could regroup quickly after losing the battle in the middle of the map. Agree? Disagree? | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
It's similar to how you say that Terran mech lategame vs Toss has alot of potential (even though we've seen it not work in the reference game for many other reasons) why couldnt the queen heavy strats also have potential with more fleshed out builds making the transitions and timings more solid? If terran mech isnt figured out, then why would heavy queen be? I agree that it's harder for zerg alot of times, but I certianly also feel you dismiss the new ideas way too quickly - in theory with good control you can rape pretty much any army with enough transfusion and to begin with queens are very solid defensive units helping you stay alive through midgame and they cost no bloody larvae (keypoint) allowing for stronger eco. How about going more broodlord heavy with a masscorrupter strat, but adding more queens. A touch of broods in a mass corrupter mix will do ALOT of damage if they get to stay alive, which queens would do very well. Ah well, thought that this show was more than just crying and liked the concept, but somehow you seem to apply your rules of imbalance differently all the time making your arguments inconsistent. Even if you can't find a way to stop this or anyone you talk to can figure it out, that can't be used as a argument as to why it's imbalanced, especially if it's fresh. Listening to Tester back in the days, Terran destroyed anything protoss threw at them at every stage of the game but then suddenly things started to work for protoss. This "new" voidray/colo builds needs to be seen for a longer period of time and zergs need to flesh out new timings and builds before you label it imbalanced. Kind of annoying tbh :< As it stands now, I think this show does more harm than good and even if you ofc don't care much I don't think I will watch any more. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
I personally just feel that you dismiss the queen heavy strats way too quickly. First of all it seems you don't have much first hand experience yourself and it's quite new still. It's similar to how you say that Terran mech lategame vs Toss has alot of potential (even though we've seen it not work in the reference game for many other reasons) why couldnt the queen heavy strats also have potential with more fleshed out builds making the transitions and timings more solid? If terran mech isnt figured out, then why would heavy queen be? I agree with this. They were very dismissive of the queen heavy strats, and it really seemed like Idra didn't have much experience with queens at all. - Don't fight Void Rays with Corrupters - Go for a timing push before Colossus, as Roach/Hydra destroys Gateway units - Bait forcefields as that is what allows Protoss to 'keep up' with Zerg's army early-mid game - Use speed ovies instead of overseers, constantly sac ovies when needed, they only cost 100 minerals and you have them lying around everywhere anyway - Harass Protoss - Harass Protoss more - Harass Protoss even more - GET T3 units... - Deny 3rd - Use Zergs strong points: + Abuse mobility + Play smart with tech switches Please don't act like artosis and idra don't know what they are talking about and don't understand how zerg works. They even said in the video that harass is surprisingly ineffective as protoss is essentially turtling off 2base. T3 Units? You mean Brood Lords which are directly addressed by the void rays? Or did you mean Ultralisks? Which he said were a definite possibility? | ||
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sykBelieve
22 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:11 DoubleReed wrote: Please don't act like artosis and idra don't know what they are talking about and don't understand how zerg works. They even said in the video that harass is surprisingly ineffective as protoss is essentially turtling off 2base. T3 Units? You mean Brood Lords which are directly addressed by the void rays? Or did you mean Ultralisks? Which he said were a definite possibility? Of course they know what they're talking about but they are so bias, Idra is known to be a hardcore rager and Artosis is bias - even in his commentating in early GSL's where he would constantly drag on about how this and that was impossible to beat as Zerg. I'm not saying I'm better than them, but it's annoying to just say something is imbalanced when you see players doing the same shit every game (Idra roach/hydra/corrupter every game no matter what.) Also, when ZvP trades armies and only Corrupters are left, and Toss has no Colossus, why do Zergs remax with 200/200 roaches when the Toss has Stalker/Immortal? Why do they not remax with Speedling/Hydra? Some things I don't understand... | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3313 Posts
The Voidray Colossus ball is like the infestor/broodlord composition as Zerg vs Terran, what you do to counter it, is trading units before he gets a too unbeatable army. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:14 sykBelieve wrote: Of course they know what they're talking about but they are so bias, Idra is known to be a hardcore rager and Artosis is bias - even in his commentating in early GSL's where he would constantly drag on about how this and that was impossible to beat as Zerg. I'm not saying I'm better than them, but it's annoying to just say something is imbalanced when you see players doing the same shit every game (Idra roach/hydra every game.) Also, when ZvP trades armies and only Corrupters are left, and Toss has no Colossus, why do Zergs remax with 200/200 roaches when the Toss has Stalker/Immortal? Why do they not remax with Speedling/Hydra? Some things I don't understand... I don't know where this whole "Idra only does one thing" mentality comes from. Seriously, I have no idea. Yes, he's very consistent a lot of the time, but I've seen him do a timing drop with hydraling, spinecrawler pushing in close positions, and funkier things of the sort. In that game with IMMVP he didn't even get roaches anywhere in the game, and relied on ling/bling for defense and mutas for everything else. People tend to remax with roaches because they tend to scale much better with army sizes. Lings tend to not get too much bang for your buck lategame, they seem to better for quick counterattacks in my experience. | ||
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sykBelieve
22 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:23 DoubleReed wrote: I don't know where this whole "Idra only does one thing" mentality comes from. Seriously, I have no idea. Yes, he's very consistent a lot of the time, but I've seen him do a timing drop with hydraling, spinecrawler pushing in close positions, and funkier things of the sort. People tend to remax with roaches because they tend to scale much better with army sizes. Lings tend to not get too much bang for your buck lategame, they seem to better for quick counterattacks in my experience. I'd still say that Hydras are a lot better to remax with when there are NO Colossus on the ground, their dps is qutie high and with Speedlings to tank/flank to prevent retreat they do pretty well.. I also agree that Lings (Cracklings in particular) are great for backstabs and harass but with a few cannons it pretty much negates Cracklings with the AI and the Lings just running circles trying to attack one cannon, lol. | ||
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Mr Tambourine Man
Netherlands190 Posts
On February 16 2011 10:02 Barca wrote: Dear Moderator who warned me (Zelniq most likely), "Your ignorant post implies that you did not watch the entire video, which you should probably do before you denounce their argument." If you look at the time from which the thread was posted and the time of my comment (9:07-9:39 ), comparing the two you will realize that my comment logically comes after watching the 30 minutes video. And yes, I did watch the whole video. Also, my comment clearly stems from what they were saying. They were not looking at all the counters, just naming a few that failed in their eyes. They even mentioned Zelniq's counter, which I've had done to me and stopped my "deathball" pretty coldly. But then they go on to say how not viable it is since a Protoss can counter it - RTS fail? I could name off a counter to the Protosses counter to the Zerg's counter, but that would get redundant. I do not appreciate being warned for disagreeing with an opinion and pointing out the flaws of an argument. Sincerely, Barca I thought this was such a silly post :D love your logic buddy! Seeing as it is almost 23:30 now, I've logically almost finished my 29th viewing of it. I couldn't take the rest of your comment seriously after that man. Maybe it was a preemptive warning :D. now on topic: great show! I too struggle against this build. Only times I beat it is when my opponent is being a complete idiot and not executing it properly. I never win against it and feel like I did the right thing, that it was my good play that won the game. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:25 sykBelieve wrote: I'd still say that Hydras are a lot better to remax with when there are NO Colossus on the ground, their dps is qutie high and with Speedlings to tank/flank to prevent retreat they do pretty well.. I also agree that Lings (Cracklings in particular) are great for backstabs and harass but with a few cannons it pretty much negates Cracklings with the AI and the Lings just running circles trying to attack one cannon, lol. Hydras are pretty bad unless they have something in front of them. Which is usually roaches for obvious reasons. I actually do see people remax with some hydras a lot of the time. Just not mass hydras or hydra/ling. | ||
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dicex
127 Posts
I think people with equal skill should have about equal chances to win when playing against each other. This is not the case in current ZvP. Also, I think a show about roach rushes or imbalances in ZvZ games (yes, there are problems with ZvZ...) would be nice. Idra and Artosis could do that too, I think they have enough experience to talk about things from an objective point of view. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:00 sykBelieve wrote: I play both Protoss and Zerg, but Zerg is my favourite race to play as I love playing aggressively with them.. I have a few points to make: - Don't fight Void Rays with Corrupters - Go for a timing push before Colossus, as Roach/Hydra destroys Gateway units - Bait forcefields as that is what allows Protoss to 'keep up' with Zerg's army early-mid game - Use speed ovies instead of overseers, constantly sac ovies when needed, they only cost 100 minerals and you have them lying around everywhere anyway - Harass Protoss - Harass Protoss more - Harass Protoss even more - GET T3 units... - Deny 3rd - Use Zergs strong points: + Abuse mobility + Play smart with tech switches A bit more in detail: Why do Zergs complain that a Colossus/Void at 200/200 is too hard to beat with Roach/Corrupter? Please realise that Colossus are 300/200, Voids are 250/150. They also build ONE at a time from 1 building with long build times. Zerg will say 'chronolulz', sure you can chrono and get the unit out faster, but your income WON't even come in fast enough to support constant chrono of colossus/void unless you're on 3+ base. Now, Zergs build from 1 structure, the Hatch - needing only 1 tech structure to SIMULTANEOUSLY pump out units, meaning that they can easily react to their opponent upon scouting. Mutas cost 100/100 and only take 33 seconds to build/2 food. Colossus take 300/200, 75 seconds/6 food, Voids take 250/150, 60 seconds/3 food. For every Colossus/Void built, it will cost the Protoss 550/350. That's about 4 Mutas, which I'm sure 4 Mutas built in 33 seconds can definitely take out 1 Void Ray... Corrupters DON'T counter Voids, why not use Mutas? Building a shit load of spines is much more useful than Speedlings if the Protoss decides to go for the push when you are harassing with Mutas. Spine crawlers can hold off Gateway units much easier than Speedlings do as they fall to Colossus rather fast. Also, a 'safe' Roach Warren should always be made. Roaches are SO FUCKING cheap for their ability to tank and decent damage. You will have more than enough minerals for Spines if going Mutas. I don't understand why Zergs complain building a tech structure is a waste of resources, a Roach warren would cost as much as 6 Zerglings.. Big deal? Now, you have the ability to morph larva into Roaches any time in the game.. I still find Roaches one of the most cost effective units in the early-mid game esp against Protoss. ZvZ Mass Roach with a few Infestor would even beat Roach/Hydra. They are also more larva efficient than Zerglings. Now, Colossus/Voids are T3 units.. Why do zergs respond with Roach/Hydra, T1.5/2 and complain? Zergs complain that equal food armies that Zergs will definitely lose. This is only true to the point that Protoss can get enough Colossus/HT's out. WHICH IS A FUCKING LONG TIME. Protoss also can't just mass up a Colossus/Void army without being vulnerable. The only way they can deal with tech switches is with Gateway units as Robo/Stargate units take so long to build. Protoss can only HOPE that their Gateway units can hold off Zerg until the higher tech reinforcements come into play. It is easy to say nerf Colossus but without Colossus, you will need to buff Storm upgrade time, or Gateway units but then this will heavily affect aggressive plays such as 4 gate. Air is not that hard to deal with as Zerg against Protoss, a few Corrupters OR spores in the mineral line can deal with Phoenix, and Voids are not so fancy with their slow movement and hefty cost.. Queens are great tanks/defensive units, too. Zergs simply sit back and macro when Protoss plays defensive and masses up their death ball. The Zerg needs to go for a timing attack before Colossus - this can even end games. If there you feel you can't beat the Colossi (you should have scouted before he got Colossus) then fall back, get another expansion and tech to Hive. Zergs need to keep Colossus numbers down, to maximise their unit efficiency in the late game. Zergs have it fine in the mid game as Roach/Hydra completely DESTROY gateway units - forcefield can level the playing field or even force a retreat with zerg but seriously, why not use speedlings to bait out forcefields? It isn't that hard. Zergs rely more on positioning than anything. Fight in the middle of the map - force the Protoss to use forcefields numerous times and his sentries will be useless in the main battle. He will HAVE to fight as he can't retreat. Forcefields keep Protoss in the early-mid game and without it they would get steamrolled. So how do Zergs counter this? Remove forcefields. Baneling drops on mineral lines are also easy to execute. Protoss suffers the most out of all 3 races with a hit in their miners. Zergs can redrone 10 at a time, Terrans have mules. It is true that Protoss have Chronoboost but it is not strong enough as the other 2 races. Baneling drops on the Protoss death'ball' is also extremely effective as units tend to clump up. The reason Colossus are so powerful is due to their splash (and range.) AOE damage means that units are cost efficient if they can kill more than 1 unit. Use banelings.. Fungle Growth is also a powerful spell, much life Force Field though less spammable. However, it deals damage and prevents spells such a blink etc. This is underused in ZvP and can delay pushes but I DO think Infestors are harder to use in ZvP than ZvT since Protoss units have more HP, and Feedback is easy to execute on the fat Infestors. Still, if you can delay pushes, it is extremely useful and can pay off - giving Zerg time to mass up more/the correct units. I always feel that Zerg playing the aggressor will always be stronger than the defensive Zerg. I hate the brainwashing of 'Zerg is a reactionary race.' EVERY FUCKING RACE is reactionary, if not then everyone would get steam rolled. Zerg can play the aggressor successfully, too. Protoss and Terran play harass against Zerg to force units, not drones. So you might ask: "Why do Zerg need to harass when they can sit back and drone up then roflstomp the opponent when on 5 base?" It's because Zerg don't scale as well throughout the late game when Protoss/Terran get AOE attacks due to the Zerg's low HP. So to counter this, Zergs need to keep the Colossus count low, snipe Templar Archives, etc.. How often do you see Zergs harassing? Hardly ever.. I think Zergs have the wrong mindset and are crying qq without exploring different playstyles.. If you read this please quote me and give me a reply, if you think I'm a total dumb cunt or if you think what I'm saying issomewhat true. I'd say Roach/Hydra is extremely strong until Colossus/Storm comes out.. So just deny the 3rd, keep Colossus numbers down and you should find it a whole shit load easier. Man you are just theorycrafting. Baneling bombs? Man do you even understand what are you talking about? If I get drops and do baneling bombs in mid game I invested so much into that that toss just can come and own me so hard that he won't lose even half of his army. Why zerg does not harrass? Maybe bevause they don't have those awesome phoenixes, hellions, banshees etc.. You may say harrass with muta but opening into muta is extremely risky and if toss smells that he just goes for the kill. You say mass muta vs. void/collosus? If toss has 2 stargates and starts chronoboost phoenixes your mutas are dead. You are just talking like noone has played zerg and it's so simple to make all those things. | ||
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