EPT
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IMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 15
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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
On February 03 2011 12:10 SlimeBagly wrote: Boy, those are THE two guys I'm most bored of hearing talk about imbalance. Every ZvX Artosis spends the first half of the cast talking about how Zerg just CANNOT win on this map (doesn't matter what map), and ANYTIME the zerg wins it's because of how unbelievable he is and everytime the zerg loses, "Well, it's really really hard for zerg to win on this map." Every game, every map. Two of the biggest whiners out there, do they really need another place to complain? More people who are bitching without having even watched the video. | ||
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opaque
Russian Federation89 Posts
In my eyes, the initial introduction should have cleared up the intentions that they have for the show. It is going to end up providing some interesting insight into competitive play. I like it. Specifically with this episode, I liked the emphasize of giving the races more options of equally effective strategies resulting in more depth to game play. | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
Artosis plays Protoss. If you actually listened to what they were saying instead of hearing what you wanted to hear, you'd realize that IdrA in particular thinks Protoss could use redesigning so that it DOESN'T rely on the Colossus. He doesn't want Colossus nerfed into the ground so that Protoss has nothing, he wants the race to be better balanced in different areas so that Protoss has different options in all of it's matchups. People who are bitching about this video are bitching because all they're capable of hearing is Zerg QQ, when in reality the video was more about how centralized Protoss is around the Colossus than anything else. Take your hands off of your ears and actually listen. Artosis and IdrA want a balanced game just like everybody else, and other professional players agree with them. As a matter of fact, Seraphic, YOU agree with them, but you didn't even realize it because you didn't listen to what they were saying. This is a fantastic response to the post by Saechiis that every single person feels the need to quote in this thread. | ||
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
2 people agreeing that x unit is imba during 25 minutes might be cool to some spectators, but this is way too one-sided. Why not talk about both sides of the issue? Maybe bring up the topic from a different point of view, play the devil's advocate or whatnot. I had hoped that at least they'd show some theorycraft, or unit testing, or in-game scenario or even replays in order to back up their claims, but all I heard is "collossus dps OP, corruptor dps UP". Thank you very much, but I can read that kind of stuff all day every day on TL forums. Pro-level, sure, but it does not mean that your opinion is true and unquestionable. I'm sure you have a lot of experience playing Protoss, and playing against Protoss, but before talking about balance, you need to make sure that you get the whole picture. To me this show wasn't insightful at all, and again, too one-sided. All in all I'm a bit disappointed, I guess the controversial title of the show is what attracted me, but well... That's alright Artosis and Idra, we get it, Z is UP <3 Why don't you stop the masochism and switch races once & for all? edit, and yes I watched the show. Suggestions, such as redesigning Protoss race and its core mechanics, making bigger maps, coming up with a fresh & exciting Zerg unit comp, are legit and all, but we need more concrete solutions here. Some actual tips & answers would be welcome. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
I was hoping that they will talk about warpgates because I believe it is a broken mechanic in that it nullifies the defender's advantage. But maybe they will talk about it in another show. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
On February 03 2011 12:14 AlBundy wrote: Is it me or does this show smells "passive-aggressive"? Just my feelings though. 2 people agreeing that x unit is imba during 25 minutes might be cool to some spectators, but this is way too one-sided. Why not talk about both sides of the issue? Maybe bring up the topic from a different point of view, play the devil's advocate or whatnot. I had hoped that at least they'd show some theorycraft, or unit testing, or in-game scenario or even replays in order to back up their claims, but all I heard is "collossus dps OP, corruptor dps UP". Thank you very much, but I can read that kind of stuff all day every day on TL forums. Pro-level, sure, but it does not mean that your opinion is true and unquestionable. I'm sure you have a lot of experience playing Protoss, and playing against Protoss, but before talking about balance, you need to make sure that you get the whole picture. To me this show wasn't insightful at all, and again, too one-sided. All in all I'm a bit disappointed, I guess the controversial title of the show is what attracted me, but well... That's alright Artosis and Idra, we get it, Z is UP <3 Why don't you stop the masochism and switch races once & for all? Artosis did switch races, and the video is mostly about rebalancing Protoss so that it doesn't rely on what might be an overpowered unit. Would you rather have Colossus be overpowered, or the entire Protoss race be more viable and flexible? That's what they're talking about, | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On February 03 2011 12:16 Zerokaiser wrote: Artosis did switch races, and the video is mostly about rebalancing Protoss so that it doesn't rely on what might be an overpowered unit. Would you rather have Colossus be overpowered, or the entire Protoss race be more viable and flexible? That's what they're talking about, Yes, reworking P core mechanics is the way to go. Get rid of wargate tech would be a good start, you know what I mean? | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
You talk about how a collosus based army simply wrecks any ground based zerg army, and that is true. But what happens when Protoss does not have those collosi? He gets absolutely wrecked by every single ground unit. Hydras and roaches demolish gateway armies absurdly well with a ridiculous cost efficiency, and even ling vs zealot to cost favors the ling if there is not any kind of massive choke point. The cost efficiency of zerg armies against gateway armies coupled with Zerg's ability to get a far better economy up far easier means that Protoss has to have units like the collosus to demolish zerg units at a stupidly cost efficient rate or else he will lose. The thing is, issues like this didn't and will never get brought up because it is 2 zerg players talking, and if the only race involved is Zerg you will only be able to think about the weaknesses of the Zerg race and the strength of the Protoss and Terran race because that is how a human brain simply operates. You will not have any back and forth productive discussion if it is simply Artosis and Idra talking. So please, get some other people on the show, if you don't it is worthless for anyone who doesn't want to listen to QQing Zergs for half an hour, and let's be honest, that is what it is. There is no discussion beyond 'Well this one unit gives me a lot of trouble, I guess the matchup is imbalanced". | ||
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Fungal Growth
United States434 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
The problem is that if you buff WG units, warp gate pushes are going to be super hard, so i cant see any possible balance for it, with the new maps protoss are going to have a tough time because the moblity of his units is less eficient, and maybe will end up in a turtle style where you use your warp gates to defend all your bases until you have a super army to push and kill your opponent (as flash style in BW TvP) | ||
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Saikyun
Sweden20 Posts
Seriously guys, shouldn't you be discussing the content of the video instead of randomly spouting evil words? Don't even answer my question. Just stop, please. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2679-Fair-Game I personally think Idra & Artosis made a great job trying to bring up a topic that's kind of hard to talk about (as showed by this thread). They just stated their opinions and had some, at the very least, okay arguments for their opinions. They didn't just say "I lose to this thus it's broked". They were very clear that this was something to be discussed, not just randomly judged. | ||
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
On February 03 2011 12:18 AlBundy wrote: Yes, reworking P core mechanics is the way to go. Get rid of wargate tech would be a good start, you know what I mean? So, the former. I didn't say a fucking thing about reworking core mechanics, and I definitely didn't say something about warpgate tech. Don't put words in my mouth and don't troll. Go rewatch the video, and this time disable the part of your brain that renders you incapable of hearing things you don't want to hear. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Mwentworth56
146 Posts
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