EPTManually stacking Harvesters on Patches - Page 2
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
Thanks Zelniq for the info, but I still don't quite get why they unsync. Are you saying that, the "response" time of the workers is not immediate? And so you need to be very precise to make sure when they respond is when the patch is available to be mined? Edit: @ confusedcrib OMG That is so cool! great idea I should try that :D haha | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
If all nearby patches are in use workers will wait at an in use patch as long as the worker there is halfway done mining. There is definitely a benefit, for instance with protoss it's the difference between being able to do 9pylon 13gate scout 14 gas with constant probe production or having a bump where you don't have enough minerals to start the 15th probe on time and have to start your gas at 15 to have constant probe production. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
 Also, sup Jaeger! Is that you from CC? tis Yoshi | ||
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Powster
United States650 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On January 30 2011 07:18 Zelniq wrote: Thanks for your input man, always appreciated, but I think I don't understand.you can always have 2 workers stay on 1 patch, it just requires precise timing so that the mineral patch is never already being mined when the other worker arrives to try to mine it. if it is, it'll go seek a new patch to mine if there is one available. that's smart design actually. the method I use to set it up so that 2 workers will always rotate on 1 close patch and I never have to worry about it again is simply to send the 2nd worker at the patch so that there's only a SLIGHT delay (as in practically the smallest amount of time) between when one worker finishes mining the patch and the other comes in to start mining it. The timing has to be perfect otherwise it won't work: you can't have a worker mining IMMEDIATELY (as in 0 downtime of mining) after, nor can the delay between mining be too long either. What I do is try to get it as close to being precise as possible when I first double up on a patch, then adjust the worker that's coming in too early by hitting S and immediately clicking the patch again, to get the timing right. The time between when you hit S and when you tell it to go back to mining depends on how early the worker was going in to mine. Learning this takes practice, as well as doing all of it efficiently without missing a beat on building drones while doing so. What is superior to hitting S than to simply spam-right-clicking the worker onto the patch until it syncs after the other guy leaves? PS I still pull off FE-mass queens on steppes of war thanks to you | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
Only worth it if you are going for a ridicilous rush to get some stuff 2-3 seconds faster. | ||
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
shift-return cargo-click patch-return cargo-click patch-return cargo-click patch. Should do the job. | ||
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Befree
695 Posts
So now I make sure my scv is positioned directly in the line between the mineral patch and the CC. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On January 30 2011 11:08 DaemonX wrote: Thanks for your input man, always appreciated, but I think I don't understand. What is superior to hitting S than to simply spam-right-clicking the worker onto the patch until it syncs after the other guy leaves? PS I still pull off FE-mass queens on steppes of war thanks to you if you spam right click then it'll start mining too fast after the other worker finishes mining, and then the next time it comes around or so will try to find another patch. | ||
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redeux
United States148 Posts
On January 30 2011 06:38 J.E.G. wrote: I usually set my waypoint to the patch who's assigned probe returns at the same time the new probe pops. This is usually pretty close timing to get two drones per patch, but you might have to manually tell a probe to stay on a patch instead of the ai taking it to another patch farther away and possibly on the other side of the mineral field. When doing the initial spread i just take a probe from a far patch to use as a scout to reduce the amount of apm needed The things I would do to be able to have probes mining my mineral line at the start of the game and be able to get drones per patch. But in all seriousness, this has been something I've been doing since launch but if they unsync after i sync'ed them then I just let them be so I don't waste any more mining time. | ||
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SushilS
2115 Posts
On January 30 2011 06:41 Lucid90 wrote: I call them retard drones. This is what a normal situation for me looks like: Me: Okay listen up drone. We need as much as minerals as possible right now, so im assigning you to a closer mineral patch. There currently is another drone mining it, but if we time it just right we can have both of you mining the same patch without anyone waiting for the other. It's more efficient to mine the close mineral patch than the further ones, which I know you like doing, but we need the minerals. Drone: HUUURR OKAY ILL GO THERE DUURRR *arives at the mineral patch* HUURRR ACTUALLY EVEN THOUGH YOU TOLD ME TO MINE HERE, I THINK I'D RATHER NOT DERPDERP every single time this happens even when I tell both drones to mine the patch they still leave. You need to micro your drones really well or just give up because they are fucking retarded. I usually choose the ladder. Hahaha. made me lol this one... | ||
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sockfolder
United States9 Posts
As far as why mining time varies, that is hard to say. My guess is that it is due to rounding based on small differences in the location where they mine. Note that though it looks like the workers move back and forth on the same path, there could actually be ~pixel length variations in their movement. To be fair though, I haven't tested this hypothesis =). | ||
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PiLoKo
Mexico144 Posts
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
But still I think this is a topic not many are paying attention to. At the beginning of a game still many progamers just vary their rally point but wont really _stack_ their worker on the nearer stacks. i dont understand how still so many spam select/deselect and wont use their apm to assist the worker AI (rather correct/improve it). why it is more efficient is explained here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176290#8 in that topic they also assess that it is really essential not just to spam rightclick with ANY worker on a nearer stack. you should rather try to minimize "down times" (while you are spamming rightclick your harvester isnt working so resulting in a mineral loss). i have to admit i am a real SaSe fanboy :D i really enjoy his stream and when you watch him you can see that he is VERY good with his probes. he even corrects phases of the probes harvesting cycle. for example if 2 probes are almost at the same time at the same patch, he will send the one in front to bypass the nearer patch to the one next to it so the later probe starts mining directly on the nearer patch and not wandering around. for some ppl this all may seem stupid but if you can do it, why not? rather spam 300 apm with select commands? :/ so i just randomly took one game and cut out the opening from sases stream. as i said he does this every game. i searched a bit but didnt find any better and more recent thread. sorry if this was unnecessary. | ||
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Luminex
Germany4 Posts
But If you have more than 8 ore more workers on the field (i.e. 15 Workers, but only 6 on the patchfiled) ---the 6 mining workers can be microed on patchfields like you want... This isn´t 100%, but try itself...and sorry for bad english | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
Anyway, the key is practice, I don't have any specific trick to do it, I just started doing it and after many games I already do it quite perfectly. I usually stack workers and control them until all there's 2 workers on each mineral patch, and in pvp even 3 workers on the distant ones. On a note, you shouldn't really worry about worker stacking until master league. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
The reason why I find it easy is because there's nothing else to be doing in the game at that point. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 30 2012 20:23 Luminex wrote: 8 patch fields 8 workers.....after this the microed workers are still on the near patchfield. If the max workers (7-8) ar not built and patches are empty, then the AI saturat them on the patchfields... But If you have more than 8 ore more workers on the field (i.e. 15 Workers, but only 6 on the patchfiled) ---the 6 mining workers can be microed on patchfields like you want... This isn´t 100%, but try itself...and sorry for bad english This depends on timing. You can have 8 workers working 4 patches without them bouncing, but it's hard to make it stable. You pretty much need the workers perfectly synced form the start where one reaches and start mining just as the previous one leaves. If there's a slight gap, this eventually leads to a worker moving. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On January 30 2011 06:52 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote: Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if the advantage of this is actually lower than the advantage of pooling exactly at 200 instead of at 210 or something like that. I do split though, but that's more to get a feeling for the mouse when I start. I am completely positive by the way that if you're zerg and if you spawn with your minerals above or below you the drone travel time due to larva location makes up more than manually stacking. It was shown in a previous thread that proper probe micro (like Sases) lets you do a 12 gate opening, but putting the gate down already on 11, or something like that. So it's pretty significant, but the advantage is short and I don't think it matters for most openings. | ||
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