GomTV released a edited version of Jinro's interview. They trimmed out 29 seconds from its original interview video, and that 29 seconds includes Jinro's statement about soundproofing issue.
I personally thought the censorship is wrong, so I posted a thread about this interview censoring issue on GSL Korean official site, and still got no answer from staffs. GomTV shouldn't did this. GomTV must release original interview video and put a explanation about that. Am I the only one who cares about this?
UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
They had to have known people would notice and make noise about it... doesn't make sense why they would do that, it's just going to create more knowledge about it.. not less.
Thats actually quite appalling. I don't know what purpose this serves except to draw even more attention to Jinros comments. When will companies learn you can't really contain stuff like this by covering it up, you need to address it and move on.
Artosis: "Lets talk about that last game..." Jinro:"To be honest... *people in the backround are warping to different locations in zero time* Jinro: "...i canceled my marine accidently and it helped me!"
Gom did adress the issue after the incident here is the Link to the thread. As to the censorship part yeah i don't really see the point get it fixed and move on.
hahahahahaha ahhh censorship, guess even gomtv isn't infallible. Very DogSPA-esque indeed. They should really know better, by censoring what the issue was, it will draw attention anyway and people will find out. Just makes them look bad cause they censor it >_>
They've already acknowledged the issue in an official statement. Sure, censoring his interview is kind of shady, but if they've acknowledged they have a problem and address it, then it's not really an issue. I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until they don't fix anything. If they do, then don't worry about it.
I guess from a business point of view, they don't want it to affect their brand. I know people feel that it is shady that they are covering it up but I'm assuming from their own view, it has already been addressed and doesn't want the other people who may not have noticed/watched this interview before to dig through it and have to explain themselves again.
What kind of PR department does GOMTV have anyway? Did they seriously expect people not to notice this after so many heard it live and people made a big fuss about it in public forums? Or are they truly stupid enough to think we'll just let it lie because it's been already been addressed. Why would they jump into another quicksand just after getting out of one? They seriously need to fire some people and get more competent staff in.
I feel it really is a non-issue now that can be easily skewed into a scandal which the pro-scene really does not want (War3 map fixing/SC match fixing). Covering up is shady, but smart and understandable. Also it prevents future discussion about it since the interview is more accessible than the press release - it prevents discussions years later where people are like OMG DID YOU SEE THIS OLD INTERVIEW WHERE JINRO CHEATED!
It was addressed, it has been fixed, and Gom really wants it under the rug otherwise something very little might blow up to be something annoyingly big in the future.
I think this is a huge deal. Censoring the players interviews is unbelievably wrong. I can't believe GOM would be dumb and shady enough to do this. This will only bring more attention to what happened.
I'm not normally for handling things in such ways but in this case it makes sense. GOM heard it, publicly addressed it, and has moved on from it. There's no real sense in that interview sitting around claiming the opposite.
Yeah it's censorship but if the problems been solved there no reason to have an interview laying about saying there is a problem.
On January 22 2011 18:40 BadWithNames wrote: I'm not normally for handling things in such ways but in this case it makes sense. GOM heard it, publicly addressed it, and has moved on from it. There's no real sense in that interview sitting around claiming the opposite.
Yeah it's censorship but if the problems been solved there no reason to have an interview laying about saying there is a problem.
OR simply they can put overlay caption on the original interview just like "This soundproofing issue is fixed right after this interview"
On January 22 2011 18:40 BadWithNames wrote: I'm not normally for handling things in such ways but in this case it makes sense. GOM heard it, publicly addressed it, and has moved on from it. There's no real sense in that interview sitting around claiming the opposite.
Yeah it's censorship but if the problems been solved there no reason to have an interview laying about saying there is a problem.
OR simply they can put overlay caption on the original interview just like "This soundproofing issue is fixed right after this interview"
Because that makes it more professional, right?
They already addressed the issue. No use bringing it up over and over again. Get over yourself. This is a business. This isn't Husky's youtube channel.
On January 22 2011 18:55 Valashu wrote: I dont see what is right about censoring something as GOMtv did. They said that they were going to fix the problems but does that mean 'we' should lose our right to complain about past conduct?
It's commendable that they want to fix problems in the show but cutting out footage just because 'we already discussed this' is retarded in my opinion.
Edit: where does all this acceptance come from? I can give several dozen of historical examples where people did NOT say ' Hurr durr! well if it is fixed now it's all k, stop complainggggggg'
Since you haven't seen it before, you can see it now:
They addressed the problem in an official statement and are fixing it. Who cares if they edited it out of the interview? I sometimes think people on this forum are just walking around looking for something to complain about.
On January 22 2011 18:40 BadWithNames wrote: Yeah it's censorship but if the problems been solved there no reason to have an interview laying about saying there is a problem.
It might not be a big deal, but tbh censorship on any level = bad. Plus I don't really buy into the "we've already addressed the issue, lets just make uncomfortable stuff dissappear".
I dont see what is right about censoring something as GOMtv did. They said that they were going to fix the problems but does that mean 'we' should lose our right to complain about past conduct?
It's commendable that they want to fix problems in the show but cutting out footage just because 'we already discussed this' is retarded in my opinion.
Edit: where does all this acceptance come from? I can give several dozen of historical examples where people did NOT say ' Hurr durr! well if it is fixed now it's all k, stop complainggggggg'
Perhaps they censored it purely to avoid confusion. If newer viewers see this and completely miss that the issue may have been rectified, they will cause a ruckus that has already been fixed.
Koreans and asiens companys usualy handle these things different from what we are used to. Square enix for example kept ninja fixing FFXI but never admited when something was broken.
Gom addressed the issue and gave us a press release. They basicly want to move on from this and dont want the interview to be reminder to everyone that maybe jinro heard that idra was 6pooling.
Now seriously - why would you censor this. Thats not a very intelligent move. They did a very good job addressing the issue and now go an do something like this??? It makes no sense. They manned up and handled it well.
I guess I just dont believe in censorship in any form.
Is the interview on the Gom Korean website as well, or is it just on the GomTV english website? They address the issue only in Korean on the playXP website so i assume maybe they think they will 'lose face' if the issue is known to the international audience?
Not sure why they did the censorship bit but if they think that will make the issue go away faster they are seriously mistaken. This will just make people less trusting of them since they have made what look like a 'cover up' attempt.
P.S. (This remind me of the Lebron James got dunk by some high school kid incident where Nike confiscated the tapes. Something that should normally die down in a day become a circus)
On January 22 2011 18:26 mig wrote: I think this is a huge deal. Censoring the players interviews is unbelievably wrong. I can't believe GOM would be dumb and shady enough to do this. This will only bring more attention to what happened.
Oh please, There is nothing evil or shady going on. They probably took it down to further evaluate the situation at hand and how to deal with it. Jesus it's a freaking interview with a player where he accidently revealed that he "thinks" he heard a sound (he even says in a later interview that he cant pick out the korean commentators voices himself and that it might have just been intuition).
Man people think any organization is out to get them with conspiracies and false information. Get it together people they're trying to further esports and love it just as much or even more than we do.
It's not really censorship if they made an official public statement about it. It's really no big deal, and they don't need forum threads popping up from people who JUST saw the interview complaining about a problem thats already been addressed. IMHO theres no need to make a big deal out of cutting a now irrelevant part of the interview out.
On January 22 2011 18:40 BadWithNames wrote: I'm not normally for handling things in such ways but in this case it makes sense. GOM heard it, publicly addressed it, and has moved on from it. There's no real sense in that interview sitting around claiming the opposite.
Yeah it's censorship but if the problems been solved there no reason to have an interview laying about saying there is a problem.
Why is it that GOM gets to decide what's useful information to have lying around and what's not. What if they decide that GOM is totally awesome now and any criticism of them is no longer useful so there is no reason to have them lying about. Look at all the comments about the video, are they useful now that the problem is fixed? Should GOM remove people's comments about the sound issue/video editing? When GOM says they can edit an interview (and change someone's words) because of one issue, it makes it easier for them to edit the next guy's words. Censorship is a really slippery slope.
The problem I have with it is that they changed Jinro's words to be "to be honest ... I tried to cancel my second baracks". It's not a big deal or really changed what the spirit of Jinro's words, but if I were Jinro I would be very irritated that GOM contorted his words and I would not feel comfortable doing interviews with them. They're trying to pass off this edited bit as something straight from Jinro in a live interview.
You gotta love people from US complaining about censorship. Interviews on American News sometimes more entertaining than Jerry Springer show rofl....gotta love FOX News! haha
Wow, what a stupid move. Everyone already have seen this interview, I absolutely don't see the point. It will only do damage to GomTV's image. And the issue was already addressed and the case was more or less closed, really I don't understand.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
On January 22 2011 19:14 Greentellon wrote: The thing that annoys me about censorship is that it's whole base assumption is that people are too stupid to understand how things work.
I'd like to say more on the issue, but I have a feeling it would only cause more problems than it would solve.
What you say is precisely correct. Hardly anyone understands what GomTV is doing, yet they are already jumping to assumptions and irrationally accusing them of ill-practices. People can speculate all they want, but those clueless speculations are just plain stupid and create trivial debates over something that is being resolved.
If that interview were to exist in its uncensored form, perhaps future viewers would again spark up this nonsense again at a later date. It is not like Gom is trying to hide their problem. They have made public statements in regard to the issue. If Gom was denying/hiding the soundproof issue, then the censorship would be problematic.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
This is nuts, its like they are shooting themselves in the leg. Soundproofing issue was IMO understandable mistake though something to fix for sure. This just makes it look much dirtier than it actually was.
Yeah, not a big deal. Thing is, they'll fix it now but they don't want people stumbling across the interview in the future and thinking there's still a problem with the soundproofing. Also, you know that there will be people whining about Jinro cheating after seeing the interview. They're burying the issue and moving on.
Imagine they remove Metalopolis from the map pool and then go back and excise everyone's statements in interviews about Metalopolis positional imbalance. The games would still make sense to those of us who witnessed them firsthand, but new viewers wouldn't have the same luxury. Imagine they did this every time they change or rectify something - what would be the point of having Artosis do interviews?
Jeez at first its all 'thanks for the transparency gom' then they go and screw their new gained good rep with this, stupid decision and thye must of realised we would notice.
GOM is trying to keep their hands clean of this, sure it is a slippery slope, but we all can agree here that the problem isn't with the current censorship and more with what it can say for the future. I understand GOM in this case, it wasn't that big of a deal. As long as they do things responsibly we are fine.
That being said...GOM hold exclusive rights to SC2 Korean e-Sport scene, anyone believing a monopolistic corporation is above these things should think carefully about it.GOM holds the same power in SC2 that Kespa does in SC1.
On January 22 2011 21:20 sqrt wrote: GOM holds the same power in SC2 that Kespa does in SC1.
Did you really just say that?
This evil corporation with their powerful grasp over SC2 in Korea also publicly apologised and said they would think of a way to prevent this issue from occurring again. They don't have to be 'above these things' as there has been nothing shady going on. I remind you again, they PUBLICLY apologised.
Man, why is everything a huge conspiracy and all corporations pure evil these days?
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
On January 22 2011 21:20 sqrt wrote: GOM holds the same power in SC2 that Kespa does in SC1.
Did you really just say that?
This evil corporation with their powerful grasp over SC2 in Korea also publicly apologised and said they would think of a way to prevent this issue from occurring again. They don't have to be 'above these things' as there has been nothing shady going on. I remind you again, they PUBLICLY apologised.
Man, why is everything a huge conspiracy and all corporations pure evil these days?
Whatcha talkin bout Willis? I myself said that it wasn't that much of an issue and am in agreement that GOM handled it well. Sometimes it's just good to remind people that their #1 company is selling Celestial Steads at 25$ a pop.
On January 22 2011 19:14 xBillehx wrote: It's not really censorship if they made an official public statement about it. It's really no big deal, and they don't need forum threads popping up from people who JUST saw the interview complaining about a problem thats already been addressed. IMHO theres no need to make a big deal out of cutting a now irrelevant part of the interview out.
How is that an irrelevant part of the interview? He got a hint what build IdrA was going.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
On January 22 2011 21:20 sqrt wrote: GOM holds the same power in SC2 that Kespa does in SC1.
Did you really just say that?
This evil corporation with their powerful grasp over SC2 in Korea also publicly apologised and said they would think of a way to prevent this issue from occurring again. They don't have to be 'above these things' as there has been nothing shady going on. I remind you again, they PUBLICLY apologised.
Man, why is everything a huge conspiracy and all corporations pure evil these days?
Whatcha talkin bout Willis? I myself said that it wasn't that much of an issue and am in agreement that GOM handled it well. Sometimes it's just good to remind people that their #1 company is selling Celestial Steads at 25$ a pop.
My bad, the post was more made to folks in general and less to you personally. Should have made that more clear, rereading it I can see that I definitely didn't make it clear at all. Sue me, got a headache and I'm out of coffee
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Clearly you aren't an expert at law, else you would know that Gom could have never showed the interview, censored the VOD of it and never offered an apology. You don't pay for the honor of Gom, you pay for the VODs they offer. Censoring interviews isn't illegal, sorry.
"What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile", well, what the fuck did you expect? It's a business after all. You're in for a really nasty surprise when you realize that 99% of all businesses work for money, and not for the greater good of X. Gom didn't owe you fuck all, be glad they were above completely burying it.
They are being more honest than necessary, and the issue will be resolved. A lot of companies would simply censor the interview and never speak of it again. I'll just leave this here, as you seem to be more inclined to insult my person than to argue for your side of the coin.
there were already rumors about giving Boxer(not the fake guy) better maps and the matchup he wanted (TvT's). They are playing with their image - who knows if that is the only thing they censor or tweak in order to get more people viewing gsl games?
The soundproof issue was resolved i thought - they said they will look into it and try to fix it asap using different headsets or whatever. I dont understand why they are causing artifical drama ?
I think its a very wierd decision. Just makes them look bad. Why go trough the trouble of editing that interview, I mean they must know that someone would find out.
We all know the issue has been fixed but imagine every other person that is going to watch that interview and start the controversy about that match over and over again.
We know it's fixed. We know it didn't effect the game so lets stop worrying about it and let GOM take care of future QQ.
I think u guys are over exageratting it's better to censor then have the bw guys in korea say sc2 is broken is dying etc etc ... edit: should be an option with I dont care at all
People are really good at only looking at headlines, or take quotes out of context and then spreading it like it's the truth, while ignoring the followup or in some cases even reading the full article.
I mean, Jinro fairly quickly said that he rewatched the VODs, and couldn't hear the commentators cheering in the VOD, he said he doubted he even heard it in the first place, and might have immagined it. People don't care about this statement, nor that he said that the commentators can only be heard if they cheer loudly, while the music in the booth is silent (inbetween songs), and most of the time, the cheer can mean anything (early game might as well be a good cheerful). So getting useful information out of it, is preatty much impossible. And still, people make a huge deal out of this, as the sound proof is a game changing flaw.
Or another example, Assange is accused of rape, charges are dropped less than 12 hours later (warrant was issued friday evening, charges were dropped saturday morning). Yet, the world headlines the following weeks was that Assange had raped someone.
What they can do tho, is make the official statement easier to find in relation to the clip.
I don't care what they censored.(Actually read the OP and watched the video ) Censorship IS censorship,no matter what are You trying to hide. Also it is known as the weapon of the weak - is GOMtv aware of that? It's like "We can't fix this, lets say there's no issue with that!" When actually there's a problem,it might be a small one,but still remains.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Clearly you aren't an expert at law, else you would know that Gom could have never showed the interview, censored the VOD of it and never offered an apology. You don't pay for the honor of Gom, you pay for the VODs they offer. Censoring interviews isn't illegal, sorry.
"What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile", well, what the fuck did you expect? It's a business after all. You're in for a really nasty surprise when you realize that 99% of all businesses work for money, and not for the greater good of X. Gom didn't owe you fuck all, be glad they were above completely burying it.
They are being more honest than necessary, and the issue will be resolved. A lot of companies would simply censor the interview and never speak of it again. I'll just leave this here, as you seem to be more inclined to insult my person than to argue for your side of the coin.
You do know that there is something called PR and reputation? I'm aware of the fact that companies want to make money and nothing else. After Jinro said that he heard the commentators the cat was out of the bag. GOM could've either been 100% upfront about it and not censor anything or done what they did. They cant completely bury it o_O thousands of people were watching, no company would try to completely bury it at that point because it would create a public outrage in the community.
Different companies have different ways of handling things, there are those that embrace their customers and want to stand out with their transparency, then there are those that don't mind a little censorship in the hopes that it will yield them a little more short-term profit. Sadly, GOM has, censoring the interview, shown which one it wants to be.
Who cares? Editing interviews is super-standard, anyone who really cares about the issue already knows about it, and they're doing something to fix it.
It's not like they're covering it up while people don't know about it and not fixing it. So what exactly is the downside of this "censorship"?
I voted "no way" but I also think they satisfied my need for action when they released a statement, so while I think we should have the whole video, I'm not going to waste time complaining because they think they can save a little face.
You do know that there is something called PR and reputation? I'm aware of the fact that companies want to make money and nothing else. After Jinro said that he heard the commentators the cat was out of the bag. GOM could've either been 100% upfront about it and not censor anything or done what they did. They cant completely bury it o_O thousands of people were watching, no company would try to completely bury it at that point because it would create a public outrage in the community.
Different companies have different ways of handling things, there are those that embrace their customers and want to stand out with their transparency, then there are those that don't mind a little censorship in the hopes that it will yield them a little more short-term profit. Sadly, GOM has, censoring the interview, shown which one it wants to be.
Because publically saying "oh, uh, we kind of screwed up on this one sorry" and having an interview with Jinro saying "oh, uh, they kind of screwed up on this one" makes profit when they take out the interview? GOM ALREADY HAS "informed their customers of possible flaws with the GSL". Yes, there was no reason for them to take out the interview, but this literally changes absolutely nothing. Instead of the information being pasted on their site and on an interview, it's just pasted on their site. No literate person will be harmed by this. It seems like you're just being obtuse.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Clearly you aren't an expert at law, else you would know that Gom could have never showed the interview, censored the VOD of it and never offered an apology. You don't pay for the honor of Gom, you pay for the VODs they offer. Censoring interviews isn't illegal, sorry.
"What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile", well, what the fuck did you expect? It's a business after all. You're in for a really nasty surprise when you realize that 99% of all businesses work for money, and not for the greater good of X. Gom didn't owe you fuck all, be glad they were above completely burying it.
They are being more honest than necessary, and the issue will be resolved. A lot of companies would simply censor the interview and never speak of it again. I'll just leave this here, as you seem to be more inclined to insult my person than to argue for your side of the coin.
This is the truth. Honestly, they could have probably just made no comment about it at all, and people would have most likely forgotten about it.
They've already addressed it, so censoring it only draws more attention to it. It hurts them more to censor the interview than just leave it be I think.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Clearly you aren't an expert at law, else you would know that Gom could have never showed the interview, censored the VOD of it and never offered an apology. You don't pay for the honor of Gom, you pay for the VODs they offer. Censoring interviews isn't illegal, sorry.
"What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile", well, what the fuck did you expect? It's a business after all. You're in for a really nasty surprise when you realize that 99% of all businesses work for money, and not for the greater good of X. Gom didn't owe you fuck all, be glad they were above completely burying it.
They are being more honest than necessary, and the issue will be resolved. A lot of companies would simply censor the interview and never speak of it again. I'll just leave this here, as you seem to be more inclined to insult my person than to argue for your side of the coin.
You do know that there is something called PR and reputation? I'm aware of the fact that companies want to make money and nothing else. After Jinro said that he heard the commentators the cat was out of the bag. GOM could've either been 100% upfront about it and not censor anything or done what they did. They cant completely bury it o_O thousands of people were watching, no company would try to completely bury it at that point because it would create a public outrage in the community.
Different companies have different ways of handling things, there are those that embrace their customers and want to stand out with their transparency, then there are those that don't mind a little censorship in the hopes that it will yield them a little more short-term profit. Sadly, GOM has, censoring the interview, shown which one it wants to be.
Would you just stop talking? You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to business, law, or anything else. They've acknowledged the problem, apologized for it, and are already fixing it, yet you still whine like they're doing a watergate-esque cover-up.
On the other hand, you think that: -it may be illegal to not disclose this sort of thing as much as possible (LOL? Are you serious bro?) -all companies only care about profit and nothing else (nice conspiracy theory) -the only possible solutions are 100% transparency and 100% (<3 the false dichotomy technique)
People calling this "censorship" and being outraged really need to stop being bandwagon jumping liberal conspiracy nuts.
I can't believe people are saying that censoring is nessary to prevent future complaints. This is the internet. If someone made some thread telling us that Jinro heard some noise a month later, everyone would say, "They already fixed that, idiot," and everyone would move on.
This issue would have gone away completely if they didn't censor this interview. Now we have to dicuss this non-issue more. Terrible decision.
On January 23 2011 00:31 PJA wrote: People calling this "censorship" and being outraged really need to stop being bandwagon jumping liberal conspiracy nuts.
I don't see anyone calling this a conspiracy. I'm not sure I want to know how you got 'liberal' into this. But it is the definition of censorship, regardless of if you agree with it or not. It certainly wasn't the best thing for them to do if they wanted people to forget about it.
You do know that there is something called PR and reputation? I'm aware of the fact that companies want to make money and nothing else. After Jinro said that he heard the commentators the cat was out of the bag. GOM could've either been 100% upfront about it and not censor anything or done what they did. They cant completely bury it o_O thousands of people were watching, no company would try to completely bury it at that point because it would create a public outrage in the community.
Different companies have different ways of handling things, there are those that embrace their customers and want to stand out with their transparency, then there are those that don't mind a little censorship in the hopes that it will yield them a little more short-term profit. Sadly, GOM has, censoring the interview, shown which one it wants to be.
Because publically saying "oh, uh, we kind of screwed up on this one sorry" and having an interview with Jinro saying "oh, uh, they kind of screwed up on this one" makes profit when they take out the interview? GOM ALREADY HAS "informed their customers of possible flaws with the GSL". Yes, there was no reason for them to take out the interview, but this literally changes absolutely nothing. Instead of the information being pasted on their site and on an interview, it's just pasted on their site. No literate person will be harmed by this. It seems like you're just being obtuse.
Please up your reading comprehension. I never said that what they did is illegal, i said not informing their customers of the flaws of their product would be illegal. Is that what they have done? No. They have done the public yada yada. The stuff in the interview is not a big deal, it's Jinro saying that "he heard the commentators, it actually hurt him, and in the end it didnt even matter", HOWEVER the fact that they are trying to hide it makes it so.
Hardly has anything to do with that, they didn't hide it as they publicly apologised. I don't quite get the purpose of this, it makes about as much sense as the outrage in this thread. Really, people? Does it in any way matter?
Actually, by censoring it they are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Hardly, they just removed an now unnecessary part of an interview. Yeah, they could've let it be but people already know of it. Who knows why they did it, who else but Gom?
The ones being real silly isn't Gom, it's the ones accusing Gom of blocking all porn from ever reaching Australia.
are you stupid?
Just because GOMtv said they were working on it and are aware of what jinro said doesnt make it 'unnecessary'
You cant censor shit very effectively on the internet, the comment section of that interview is already littered with links to the 'real' interview on youtube. GOM only shot themselves in the foot with this silly censor business.
Are you fucking braindead? Does the above sentence do anything except make me look like an angsty teen? It really serves no purpose, aye?
Anyway, it does make it unnecessary, Gom aren't in any way obliged to share all information they have with you and as they did cover this issue there's no reason for it to remain in the interview, other than the apparent hatred for censorship around. Obviously people aren't happy with it, I just believe they are being unreasonable. Because it really doesn't bloody matter.
Yeah, you can't censor these kind of things easily and they obviously didn't do a great job. But considering that they even made a public announcement it's evident that they aren't trying to just "cover it up". I really don't get how people are reacting to this as if it was some huge scandal. They removed part of an interview and apologised for the issue elsewhere. So fucking what?
wow
the amount of clueless you were able to instill into your post is quite astounding.
I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues.
They have released a public statement, but censoring the interview shows that they dont want to be 100% upfront about it and I dislike that they have done the bare minimum to diffuse the situation and then want to sweep it under the carpet as fast as possible.
If they hadn't made a public announcement the entire starcraft 2 community all around the world would be infuriated. What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile about it, they want the least amount of people to know about it.
Its not about the game, its about the attitude GOM is showing towards its customers. Theyre not being 100% honest even when everyone knows the truth and its a damn shame
Clearly you aren't an expert at law, else you would know that Gom could have never showed the interview, censored the VOD of it and never offered an apology. You don't pay for the honor of Gom, you pay for the VODs they offer. Censoring interviews isn't illegal, sorry.
"What they are trying to do is essentially minimize the damages and keep a low profile", well, what the fuck did you expect? It's a business after all. You're in for a really nasty surprise when you realize that 99% of all businesses work for money, and not for the greater good of X. Gom didn't owe you fuck all, be glad they were above completely burying it.
They are being more honest than necessary, and the issue will be resolved. A lot of companies would simply censor the interview and never speak of it again. I'll just leave this here, as you seem to be more inclined to insult my person than to argue for your side of the coin.
You do know that there is something called PR and reputation? I'm aware of the fact that companies want to make money and nothing else. After Jinro said that he heard the commentators the cat was out of the bag. GOM could've either been 100% upfront about it and not censor anything or done what they did. They cant completely bury it o_O thousands of people were watching, no company would try to completely bury it at that point because it would create a public outrage in the community.
Different companies have different ways of handling things, there are those that embrace their customers and want to stand out with their transparency, then there are those that don't mind a little censorship in the hopes that it will yield them a little more short-term profit. Sadly, GOM has, censoring the interview, shown which one it wants to be.
On the other hand, you think that: -it may be illegal to not disclose this sort of thing as much as possible (LOL? Are you serious bro?)
read above
-all companies only care about profit and nothing else (nice conspiracy theory)
not all companies but it is the main objective of almost all of them and most certainly for GOM (which i dont blame them for, the world is what it is)
-the only possible solutions are 100% transparency and 100% (<3 the false dichotomy technique)
this is not the case but if the whole extent of the situation (i.e. the content of the interview) is already publicly available then not being 100% transparent about it is a questionable move. As I said before, the content of the video is pretty tame, but by censoring it they make it more than it is.
This explains it quite well:
The Streisand effect is a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt to hide or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of perversely causing the information to be publicized more widely and to a greater extent than would have occurred if no contrary action had been attempted.
The Streisand effect only exists because of douchebags like you, imo. Why do you think it's questionable to edit out part of an interview that Jinro basically rescinded later on, and is an issue they're already fixing?
EDIT: As for reading comprehension, when you say something like:
"I'm no expert in law but I am 100% certain that GOM has to inform their customers of the possible flaws of their product (the GSL). Players being able to hear the commentators is a HUGE problem and threatens the entire credibility and value of the tournament. Afterall if I buy a car from Honda they better fucking tell me if the brakes have reliability issues."
You're heavily implying that you think what they are doing is very near to breaking the law. If you really want to use such rhetoric, at least man up and admit that that's what you did, instead of later backing off and saying "oh I never said they're breaking the law, blah blah blah."
On January 22 2011 18:22 shindigs wrote: I feel it really is a non-issue now that can be easily skewed into a scandal which the pro-scene really does not want (War3 map fixing/SC match fixing). Covering up is shady, but smart and understandable. Also it prevents future discussion about it since the interview is more accessible than the press release - it prevents discussions years later where people are like OMG DID YOU SEE THIS OLD INTERVIEW WHERE JINRO CHEATED!
It was addressed, it has been fixed, and Gom really wants it under the rug otherwise something very little might blow up to be something annoyingly big in the future.
Exactly, well put. I don't see this as that big a deal, if anything it's a good thing it happened in that specific game because it really was a non-issue to the outcome. We don't need this interview floating around for the rest of forever that inevitably will be used by trolls to slander Jinro in every single live report thread henceforth. Plus, they released an official statement and are taking care of it. It's not like it's being ignored. Yeah it's shady lookin', but better than the alternative.
On January 22 2011 18:22 shindigs wrote: I feel it really is a non-issue now that can be easily skewed into a scandal which the pro-scene really does not want (War3 map fixing/SC match fixing). Covering up is shady, but smart and understandable. Also it prevents future discussion about it since the interview is more accessible than the press release - it prevents discussions years later where people are like OMG DID YOU SEE THIS OLD INTERVIEW WHERE JINRO CHEATED!
It was addressed, it has been fixed, and Gom really wants it under the rug otherwise something very little might blow up to be something annoyingly big in the future.
Agreed.
They already addressed the issue so it's not like they're trying to pretend it didn't happen.
The censorship is pointless and is very counter productive to their image as totally open and addressing the issue. I think it would have been better to leave it up especially since it happened in the first place.
Whoever thinks this could be illegal fails as a person. Joking! No but in all seriousness Gomtv.net have complete rights over their videos, that INCLUDES editing. They could even dub them in swahili draw fake moustaches on everyone and talk about our imba imba world. But apart from the fact that its completely legal and within their rights to do whatever they want. I personally think its fine for them to edit the video. its not some major conspiracy, from their point of view their probably thinking its gonna get bad press anyways so why do it to themselves? There are people who only watch the matches on their official website and don't use other websites like this one. Why would you go and inform people who don't need to know, wouldn't normally find out, and wouldn't be effected by not knowing? If they denied the issue completely and didn't fix it then I might be more inclined to complain.
On January 22 2011 18:07 Rokk wrote: They've already acknowledged the issue in an official statement. Sure, censoring his interview is kind of shady, but if they've acknowledged they have a problem and address it, then it's not really an issue. I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until they don't fix anything. If they do, then don't worry about it.
That is the very reason why it is a big deal to me. Why censor the interview when you've already come out and made an official statement that there was a soundproofing issue? It makes no sense at all. They are doing censorship just for the sake of doing it. All it is doing is giving them a bad image. It's not hiding anything as they have already admitted to the issue!
EDIT: As the saying goes, "If you give them an inch, they take a mile." No reason to back down on censorship. Doing so leads to worse and worse things.
They'll probably just start taping on a delay the editing everything in advance if you guys keep this up. ra ra ra evil cenosorship!!!111 They didn't really censor anything, seeing as it was already shown live, and they already admitted it.
Although I admit it was probably a bad move on their part. Although I would have no problem with the interview being edited, but at the same time provided a disclaimer (in English) explaining why it was edited).
Like below in the video: "Jinro's comments re: soundproofing have been removed. The issue has been fixed".
Do you expect the interviews to still be up and available 5 years down the road (or more)? It would be more controversial for them to edit it at a later date, probably after the issue has been addressed, and try to sweep it under the rug then. GomTV acknowledged it, is addressing it, and simply removed the snippet of video right from the start.
The soundproofing problem exited BW too. I dont know if this was posted before in this thread or not, but doesnt anyone remember Boxer vs Yellow games? Yellow had burrowed lurkers on hold position and Boxer was moving towards them with a m&m group without detection, then Boxers fans would go "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" and the marines and medics would go back... This was obviously fixed, i dont know how it was possible to happen again now...
On January 22 2011 18:07 Rokk wrote: They've already acknowledged the issue in an official statement. Sure, censoring his interview is kind of shady, but if they've acknowledged they have a problem and address it, then it's not really an issue. I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until they don't fix anything. If they do, then don't worry about it.
That is the very reason why it is a big deal to me. Why censor the interview when you've already come out and made an official statement that there was a soundproofing issue? It makes no sense at all. They are doing censorship just for the sake of doing it. All it is doing is giving them a bad image. It's not hiding anything as they have already admitted to the issue!
EDIT: As the saying goes, "If you give them an inch, they take a mile." No reason to back down on censorship. Doing so leads to worse and worse things.
The censorship was obviously intended for those who didn't watch the interview live. Look at it from gomtv.net's perspective. What looks better? Seeing Jinro giggle while saying how he heard something that gave him a warning that led to a victory OR a nice politically correct blurb at the bottom of the video that says: "Jinro's comments re: soundproofing have been removed. The issue has been fixed".
So much for the booths being soundproof. He said he hears the music playing, and once their is a low point in that he can hear what the commentators say.
That doesn't really seem all that "sound-proof" to me. Unless I mis-understood what he had said.
On January 22 2011 18:07 Rokk wrote: They've already acknowledged the issue in an official statement. Sure, censoring his interview is kind of shady, but if they've acknowledged they have a problem and address it, then it's not really an issue. I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until they don't fix anything. If they do, then don't worry about it.
That is the very reason why it is a big deal to me. Why censor the interview when you've already come out and made an official statement that there was a soundproofing issue? It makes no sense at all. They are doing censorship just for the sake of doing it. All it is doing is giving them a bad image. It's not hiding anything as they have already admitted to the issue!
EDIT: As the saying goes, "If you give them an inch, they take a mile." No reason to back down on censorship. Doing so leads to worse and worse things.
The censorship was obviously intended for those who didn't watch the interview live. Look at it from gomtv.net's perspective. What looks better? Seeing Jinro giggle while saying how he heard something that gave him a warning that led to a victory OR a nice politically correct blurb at the bottom of the video that says: "Jinro's comments re: soundproofing have been removed. The issue has been fixed".
How the hell is that "politically correct"? I'm sorry, but the phrase politically correct is annoying and overused even when used "correctly", never mind when it's used like this.
On January 22 2011 18:07 Rokk wrote: They've already acknowledged the issue in an official statement. Sure, censoring his interview is kind of shady, but if they've acknowledged they have a problem and address it, then it's not really an issue. I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until they don't fix anything. If they do, then don't worry about it.
That is the very reason why it is a big deal to me. Why censor the interview when you've already come out and made an official statement that there was a soundproofing issue? It makes no sense at all. They are doing censorship just for the sake of doing it. All it is doing is giving them a bad image. It's not hiding anything as they have already admitted to the issue!
EDIT: As the saying goes, "If you give them an inch, they take a mile." No reason to back down on censorship. Doing so leads to worse and worse things.
The censorship was obviously intended for those who didn't watch the interview live. Look at it from gomtv.net's perspective. What looks better? Seeing Jinro giggle while saying how he heard something that gave him a warning that led to a victory OR a nice politically correct blurb at the bottom of the video that says: "Jinro's comments re: soundproofing have been removed. The issue has been fixed".
How the hell is that "politically correct"? I'm sorry, but the phrase politically correct is annoying and overused even when used "correctly", never mind when it's used like this.
Maybe the phrase "politically correct' was not the right choice of words. What I meant was that they didn't down play it or over hype it, just clean straight to the point.
I'm pretty confused by this choice of action. I mean they already released announcements and official statements on the issue, why would they think this edit is necessary? It just makes the situation look very suspicious.
They probably decided that since it had been dealt with the harm caused by editing the video was less then the possible harm in the future from people thinking that it was possible for GSL competitors to cheat.
This sucks so hard. How could you cut that out? "We give ourselves a little warning. We will never ever do that again. Also, we didn't do it. It never happened." That is why people restream, because they will have the original video afterwards. Cutting this out is just utterly retarded.
edit: btw, did jinro comment on this? I'd love to read his comment. On second thought, he will have to practise a lot and might not have time for this.
On January 23 2011 03:25 Serpico wrote: Problems dont get solved by trying to ignore them and sweeping them under the rug.
Except they didn't, they made an announcement about it. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. It's an idiotic move, but it's not a coverup. You do not cover something with one hand and expose it with the other. I'm really not sure why people keep saying this.
On January 23 2011 03:25 Serpico wrote: Problems dont get solved by trying to ignore them and sweeping them under the rug.
Except they didn't, they made an announcement about it. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. It's an idiotic move, but it's not a coverup. You do not cover something with one hand and expose it with the other. I'm really not sure why people keep saying this.
Because they censored it. Pretty obvious they're trying to do damage control. They can say all they want but if they still cut it out that speaks volumes.
On January 23 2011 02:43 applejuice wrote: I heard they are "soundproof curtains". Since when are curtains LOL soundproof? They should really add doors, or something.
I think I remeber that there is a door and a curtain. You can see it in one of the jinro (not the idra game) or boxer games where they go to their opponent after the match. I might be wrong, but I dont want to search for it all day.
On January 23 2011 03:24 dmillz wrote: They probably decided that since it had been dealt with the harm caused by editing the video was less then the possible harm in the future from people thinking that it was possible for GSL competitors to cheat.
would be simple enough to make a disclaimer that said "this issue has already been resolved and players can no longer hear the noise of the commentator between music tracks. this issue have been decided to have no impact on the result of the match and no players complained so there was not a regame"
would tell everything everyone need to know and cause less harm than a edition. if i see a interview poorly edited like this i'll want to know what was there in the first place so i'll just youtube it and see it full. and if i see the full content on youtube i'll think "eh, if they have censored this part it's because the problem must be still there and they don't want us to know, crap..."
yea I dont understand this at all. I thought they handled the sound issue really well putting out an official statement including measures to help remedy it. But this is just dumb. If you wanted to ensure more people viewing the original interview then censoring it out was the way to go.
I'm not really understanding the big issue everyone has with this. It's not like they edited it out and tried to hide the matter. There was an announcement made, the issue was addressed. I can understand the reasoning behind editing it: In the future people will be watching VODs to catch up on previous seasons and it is very possible those people will not have seen the announcement addressing the problem, so it is best to avoid any confusion.
Maybe a simple disclaimer edited in before/after the video would have been better, but I don't have a problem with this.
what if jinro asked for his interview to be edited ? would suck for him if he wins this gsl and haters woulf say he only did because the soundproof issue
On January 23 2011 04:00 MetalSlug wrote: what if jinro asked for his interview to be edited ? would suck for him if he eins this gsl and haters woulf say he only did because the soundproof issue
i doubt that. I dont think he is afraid of haters. Even if he asked for it, gom would suck for cutting that out.
I just sent an email to support@gomtv.net, I suggest that anybody else who feels especially strongly about this issue do the same. I will include what I wrote in a spoiler tag below, feel free to edit it to reflect your own experience and re-use as desired.
You have altered the Jinro 'Round of 8' interview interview to omit any mention that he could hear the crowd from within his booth. This behavior is highly unethical, especially given that the editing was done in such a way as to purposefully mislead a casual observer that the video has been altered. Regardless of any action taken on your part to correct what went wrong during this match, your alteration of the original record is unacceptable. Given that the video was edited in such a way as to cover up the alteration, your already know this on some level. I have been a subscriber to the premium service for seasons 2, 3 and 4. I will certainly NOT be subscribing to the next season unless you restore the video to its original state. There would of course be nothing wrong with adding additional details noting that this is an issue which is being worked on.
There's this new law of the Internet I've been thinking up. Something along the lines of "If it can be over-reacted to, most likely it will be, whether positively or negatively."
Doesnt really seem worth starting a boycott over, semm. Not only do they likely not care about one individuals threats, but they sound like empty threats anyway. It's one thing to say you're not going to buy in to next season over something you're upset about- its another thing to completely drop hours upon hours of entertainment (assuming you watch the VODs) because you're unhappy that 30 seconds of an interview were cut out.
I would also state that, in America, we believe in freedom of speech. I don't claim to know the social boundaries within the Korean culture, but it is not right for all of you to assume that you know best based on the fact that censorship is considered immoral on US soil.
I doubt it is a cover-up. If they had not acknowledged it, then it would be. By removing it, I believe (and could be wrong) that they are simply trying to avoid causing concern to any other parties, or to avoid people discrediting Jinro, who has proven to become very popular amongst Korean and non-Korean viewers.
Does anyone have a link to the mentioned announcement from GomTV where they adressed the issue? I only know of the news mentioned in this post but it's Korean only.
So is there actually an announcement for the International viewer base? Maybe that's the reason for the censorship? They dont expect everyone to read TL (or a Korean news site) so there's no option for those "uninformed" guys to read a statement.
I will copy the email I send to GomTV regarding my thoughts on the issue.
Dear GomTV,
I have been very proud and happy to support GomTV in it's efforts with Starcraft 2. However, if I find that GomTV takes actions of censorship in the future, I may no longer buy your products. In fact I have purchased all 4 seasons of Starcraft 2 and hope to be able to purchase further seasons. I have very much enjoyed your products. However, I am concerned. My greatest worry in not players may have heard commentary, I believe GomTV when you say you will be correct the issue. I can not speak to the culture in South Korea, and I can understand the desire for GomTV to save face, however I feel there is more shame in hiding the truth than admitting it openly and working hard to fix it.
I am very concerned that you at first did not publish, and then cut the part of the Mr. Walsh's interview where is states that he was able to hear crowd nosies. This action makes it seem that Mr. Walsh behaved incorrectly by immediately and openly admitting to what happened. Which I believe is the only way that such issues can be dealt with. When you go out of your way to hide these issues, it damages the trust that I have in GomTV. I believe that most North American customers feel the same, that the worst thing GomTV can do is try to hide a mistake. Perhaps you would prefer Mr. Walsh only spoke to those in authority at GomTV, however as a fan and supporter I can only know that things are going right if I feel the players are respected and allowed to speak freely regarding any concerns.
I have been very impressed with the actions of GomTV up to this point. And I fully believe that you will take all actions necessary to correct the soundproofing issue. Please do not shake the faith and trust of your internation viewers by trying to cover up issues that effect the sport.
I think the community is being a little bit too hard on gumtv, I just don't see why people will stop contributing over this, it saddens me. I don't see anything wrong with what they doing.
This is stupid. They already adressed the issue with that post or w/e. I don't see the point of doing this as everyone already knows what happend. If anything the best thing to do would've been a rematch , but now is too late.
The problem is that you don't want GOMTV turning into the Ultimate Fighting Championship or World Wrestling Entertainment, two companies with storied histories manipulating footage to fit the business agenda. Both of those companies have a history of marginalizing workers and employees who are on poor terms with the company and both of those companies have a history of "forgetting about" things that put the company in a poor light. If you're under the impression that competitive gaming is a community endeavor (regardless of how many sponsors and business magnates invest in the product), then it's important that incidents like these are painted in a public light. That way, the community can rectify those issues.
Doesnt really seem worth starting a boycott over, semm. Not only do they likely not care about one individuals threats, but they sound like empty threats anyway. It's one thing to say you're not going to buy in to next season over something you're upset about- its another thing to completely drop hours upon hours of entertainment (assuming you watch the VODs) because you're unhappy that 30 seconds of an interview were cut out.
I will finish watching this season, I did pay for it. I will not buy a ticket for the next. Its hardly an threat in any case. There is a ton of free SC2 related entertainment out there, way more than any one person has time for. I think the GOMtv production is of high quality, but this is an issue I feel strongly enough about to nat watch next season. Hardly seems extreme to me.
I acknowledge that the culture there may be different, that doesn't mean I cannot apply my own judgment of what constitutes ethical behavior when deciding how to spend my own money. And even so, I'm buying the English service aren't I? If one wanted to give some sort of multicultural excuse for what I think is bad behavior, then if I'm watching an English stream they should know enough about Western culture to know how upset many of their foreign viewers would be. Thanks for the reply though
A lot of people are putting on tinfoil hats in this thread. Context control is fine if you address the issue at hand, given that many viewers will likely see the issue and apply it to some other situations without knowledge of the original addressing, whereas we are in the minority in knowing about the address. Seriously, what new GOMtv watcher is going to read the sound-proofing acknowledgment post down the line?
On January 23 2011 04:44 Sinborn wrote: A lot of people are putting on tinfoil hats in this thread. Context control is fine if you address the issue at hand, given that many viewers will likely see the issue and apply it to some other situations without knowledge of the original addressing, whereas we are in the minority in knowing about the address. Seriously, what new GOMtv watcher is going to read the sound-proofing acknowledgment post down the line?
This is fundimental to the sport.
If the NFL tried to hide that one team was intercepting the radio of another teams plays would you not be concerned?
How you ensure that people do not apply this to other situation is addressing it so throughly that no one had reason to. Not by hidding it.
It would be an issue if they censored it and did nothing to resolve the issue, but they've made a public statement saying that they have already fixed the 'problem' if there even was one.
Have 0 problems with them snipping this out, they made a direct statement addressing the issue for the fans who were bothered. I'd be more annoyed if they don't actually take steps to address it.
On January 23 2011 02:43 applejuice wrote: I heard they are "soundproof curtains". Since when are curtains LOL soundproof? They should really add doors, or something.
I think I remeber that there is a door and a curtain. You can see it in one of the jinro (not the idra game) or boxer games where they go to their opponent after the match. I might be wrong, but I dont want to search for it all day.
I'm not so sure- I'm watched a LOT of the matches, and I've never seen anyone open a door.
On January 23 2011 02:43 applejuice wrote: I heard they are "soundproof curtains". Since when are curtains LOL soundproof? They should really add doors, or something.
I think I remeber that there is a door and a curtain. You can see it in one of the jinro (not the idra game) or boxer games where they go to their opponent after the match. I might be wrong, but I dont want to search for it all day.
I'm not so sure- I'm watched a LOT of the matches, and I've never seen anyone open a door.
The camera never goes behind the booth, where the door is. The door is covered by curtains
On January 23 2011 02:43 applejuice wrote: I heard they are "soundproof curtains". Since when are curtains LOL soundproof? They should really add doors, or something.
I think I remeber that there is a door and a curtain. You can see it in one of the jinro (not the idra game) or boxer games where they go to their opponent after the match. I might be wrong, but I dont want to search for it all day.
I'm not so sure- I'm watched a LOT of the matches, and I've never seen anyone open a door.
The camera never goes behind the booth, where the door is. The door is covered by curtains
don't care if there's 10 doors. There's either no door, or it's made of bubble wrap. Otherwise, they surely would have mentioned the door here:
"Players felt uncomfortable about soundproofing earset and headset, and pointed out sound curtain is too big. So we have used only headset without an earset and eased sound curtain. Behind of Jinro's booth, there is a speaker. All these circumstances made the issue today. "
The curtain and headsets are clearly what they are relying on to reduce the sound, even if there is a door.
If they fix the problem then there is no need to edit out what jinro said, and if they don't fix the problem editing is hiding the problem. At best editing takes information from the spectators, and I don't understand why people think that is a good thing.
I acknowledge that the culture there may be different, that doesn't mean I cannot apply my own judgment of what constitutes ethical behavior when deciding how to spend my own money. And even so, I'm buying the English service aren't I? If one wanted to give some sort of multicultural excuse for what I think is bad behavior, then if I'm watching an English stream they should know enough about Western culture to know how upset many of their foreign viewers would be. Thanks for the reply though
He's not saying that it's fine because it's Korea or whatever, he's saying that it's not such a big deal even if it's stupid. We're not trying to convince you to forgive GOM for this, we're trying to say that this is not deal, not because covering stuff up is okay but because this isn't really a coverup. Obviously you may not agree, but I think people are taking the wrong conclusions out of some posts.
On January 23 2011 07:05 briandawkins wrote: I hope they go back and edit all the comments about pre-1.2 balance. I wouldn't want any future watchers to get confused. It could hurt eSports!
"we are really sorry about the balance issues, and are aware of it. Every single blizzard member got a smack on the bottom. The feeling of this will never expire." However, blizzard is not gomtv.
How does releasing a statement make it ok to remove information from the video? If anything they should have added the statement. How is removing context of the statement helpful to either GOM or spectators?
they were probably just trying to remove it for crowd control purposes. what does it matter whether they document their mistake for everyone to see? what matters to me is that they admit they made a mistake and they fix it, which they did. i feel like there is a huge double standard here, of people thinking GOM should broadcast their faults to the world when no one here would if they could avoid it
apparently the streisand effect applies here, but perhaps they weren't aware of such a thing. i do think if they truly wanted to tone down the awareness of the issue, they should've just let it be. i don't think it's the best way to handle it, but i don't think they are being suspicious or shady by doing this and that many people in this thread are overly critical
HAHAHAH ;D the cut is hillarious "I'll be honest. I tried to cancel my 2nd barracks, but i cancelled my marine" hahaha :D Yea im glad u were honest about that!
On January 23 2011 08:14 Herculix wrote: they were probably just trying to remove it for crowd control purposes. what does it matter whether they document their mistake for everyone to see? what matters to me is that they admit they made a mistake and they fix it, which they did.
The problem was that they admitted it, and then removed something that gave context to what they admitted and the match. One can make an argument that its exaggerated now, but that doesn't mean their logic was flawed.
That press release was definitely the right decision, cutting the interview on the other hand was a pretty bad move. Not sure what i should think about this.
I dunno, part of me says any censorship is wrong, but I can see the argument the other way too.
This really isn't a cover-up and there's no reason to be angry at all, in my opinion. Jinro heard something but it had no effect on the game -- but people are stupid and won't try to process the whole picture further down the road.
On January 23 2011 08:35 briandawkins wrote: Also, Blizzard should stop numbering patches. No reason to document their mistakes. It's enough to say they took care of balance problems.
On January 23 2011 04:44 Sinborn wrote: A lot of people are putting on tinfoil hats in this thread. Context control is fine if you address the issue at hand, given that many viewers will likely see the issue and apply it to some other situations without knowledge of the original addressing, whereas we are in the minority in knowing about the address. Seriously, what new GOMtv watcher is going to read the sound-proofing acknowledgment post down the line?
This is fundimental to the sport.
If the NFL tried to hide that one team was intercepting the radio of another teams plays would you not be concerned?
How you ensure that people do not apply this to other situation is addressing it so throughly that no one had reason to. Not by hidding it.
Your hypothetical isn't applicable to the situation at hand. You state that it is necessary for a sports caster entity to report an intentional act of unsporting conduct between performers. Jinro did not intentionally cheat and therefore, they are not covering up something that is detrimental to the spirit of competition.
Jinro's discovery was not intentional in that his hearing of the crowd is not on the same questionable level as intercepting a private broadcast. The distinction between hearing and actively going out of your way to cheat are clearly distinguishable from one another. While the match may have been determined by the hint, that information was not pursued in such a way that would be detrimental to the integrity of the game.
The interception of radio communications was not a result of an oversight by the NFL, whereas GomTV's oversight was the direct cause because they control the environment and regularly maintain its integrity. Your statement infers that GOMtv should be transparent with the details between teams, which I agree, but since GOMtv is directly responsible for something that appeared to be unsporting, it falls outside the hypothetical.
They issued a statement acknowledging the issue and even going as far as to specifically cite the issues that plagued the Jinro match enough to cause the issue in the first place. If you read the press release, you know it happened during the Jinro/Idra matchup. The important part is that you know it happened.
The editing is a PR move, but it's doesn't even do anything. We still know it happened. They just edited a piece of video that, guess what, they own and can edit as they please. They aren't denying the issue. Hell, they aren't even dodging the issue. They're just editing a video.
Jesus Christ. Don't let them edit the after game commentary of Tastosis, or there will be another shit storm to clean up.
On January 23 2011 09:27 Uncultured wrote: If there's a part of you that says any/all censorship is wrong, It's the naive part. Even Wikileaks understands the importance of censorship.
That's a bit of an obscure comparison. I could say the same for totalitarian and fascist governments. Giving examples of other people that have supported censorship in different contexts goes both ways and isn't really relevant.
In regards to the gomtv editing of the interview:
I don't think there is any justifiable reason to cut out what a player is saying in an interview. Where does the line get drawn, and who decides what the fans don't get to hear? I think it's absolutely inexcusable to edit an interview like that, regardless of any statement made. It's not fair to jinro, either (whether it really changes the impact of what he's saying or not).
The only almost reasonable explanation I could think of is that they want to preserve the perceived integrity of the results because they don't want people questioning the legitimacy of any of the games played in the studio.
If they are worried about that however, they should be actually preserving the integrity of the matches instead of trying to pretend that nothing ever went wrong.
Edit: There are a number of people who will watch the VODs and not see the statement. As unfortunate as it may be, everyone watching starcraft doesn't do so through team liquid and doesn't necessarily browse the gomtv press releases.
How can you see it's not 'a cover up' when the only tangible outcome of the edit is the hiding of information? It may not be your typical 'cover up' involving conspiracies and the FBI, but it is certainly a cover up to a degree.
Making a press release acknowledging that a problem occurred does not mean its okay to destroy any evidence of it happening.
I don't care when Gom make mistakes, as long as they are open about it. I really liked how they handled the soundproof thing, until I heard about the censoring, that made me quite sad.
Players should be able to speak freely, without fear of being censored if they say something that makes Gom look bad.
Just hope they learned from how the community reacted to this and they won't use these Kespa style methods anymore from now on.
It was good that they talked about the issue in the press release. But with cutting the part out of the video they take back this being open about the topic that they seemed to have. They just don't want their viewers to know. And for those that do know, they still can point at the press release. That is maybe not a full cover up, but a semi cover-up. It is just totally ugly, unnecessary and unappealing.
On January 23 2011 10:04 Ludwigvan wrote: It was good that they talked about the issue in the press release. But with cutting the part out of the video they take back this being open about the topic that they seemed to have. They just don't want their viewers to know. And for those that do know, they still can point at the press release. That is maybe not a full cover up, but a semi cover-up. It is just totally ugly, unnecessary and unappealing.
UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
Updated on OP also. I still think the censoring is not a good idea.
On January 23 2011 08:58 suejak wrote: I dunno, part of me says any censorship is wrong, but I can see the argument the other way too.
This really isn't a cover-up and there's no reason to be angry at all, in my opinion. Jinro heard something but it had no effect on the game -- but people are stupid and won't try to process the whole picture further down the road.
I dunno.
I agree. It did not affect the match and they did not want ti to be brought up.
Though to be fair, with how they censored it (it's really obvious), they might as well just kept the original version up.
They should have kept the original but added a 30 second text intro or something explaining the issue (and how they gave a warning to themselves) and explaining that it did not really affect the outcome of the match.
On January 23 2011 14:11 Xeph wrote: UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
Updated on OP also. I still think the censoring is not a good idea.
are they apologizing for the censorship or for the actual incident? I'm way more concerned about the censorship tbh, cutting out part of interviews because they make you look bad? fascist moves
On January 23 2011 14:11 Xeph wrote: UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
Updated on OP also. I still think the censoring is not a good idea.
are they apologizing for the censorship or for the actual incident? I'm way more concerned about the censorship tbh, cutting out part of interviews because they make you look bad? fascist moves
On January 23 2011 14:11 Xeph wrote: UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
Updated on OP also. I still think the censoring is not a good idea.
are they apologizing for the censorship or for the actual incident? I'm way more concerned about the censorship tbh, cutting out part of interviews because they make you look bad? fascist moves
Apparently, they apologized for the censorship.
no, they are Explaining why censorship. "the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good"
I also thought that they had handled the situation quite well until they edited the interview. I would go so far as to say that this was the best scenario for this to have happened (in that it likely did not affect the outcome). Jinro hears the cheering, scouts early (to his detriment) and sees nothing suspect, yet still manages to win the game. What I think Gom should have done is to post the entire interview, and at the end have a spokesperson, John perhaps, mention that the players involved say that it did not affect the outcome and that they are actively working to ensure that nothing similar happens again (basically what they said in their prerss release). Regardless of their intentions, and I do feel that they meant no ill, any amount of censorship other than for foul language, which they have clearly decided not to do, carries with it a feeling of wrongness (as can be seen from the poll).
GOM acknowledged the issue, but did they fix the issue? It's hard to take this event seriously as a competition if players can hear cheesy openings. Jinro's scouting in game 3 vs MKP raised my suspicion.
On January 23 2011 14:11 Xeph wrote: UPDATE 1 13:59 23 Jan 2011 KST I got a reply from GSL staff about this issue. I had to post two thread to get the response. Translation: We acknowledged our fault, but we thought that the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good, and there are some people diminishing the match with the incident which did not practically effected to the result. Sorry.
Updated on OP also. I still think the censoring is not a good idea.
are they apologizing for the censorship or for the actual incident? I'm way more concerned about the censorship tbh, cutting out part of interviews because they make you look bad? fascist moves
Apparently, they apologized for the censorship.
no, they are Explaining why censorship. "the well known incident to be cited again and again is not good"
"Apparently, they apologized for the censorship." is the answer for "are they apologizing for the censorship or for the actual incident?"
Personally I'm not a fan of the censorship but I also believe it was a bad decision in terms of damage control for GOM. It's completely backfired because their videos have comments. The comments on the Jinro video are full of people saying the interview has been edited and reiterating why. It turns into a lose-lose for GOM. It was already public and people would be past it. Instead there is a thread about censorship.
On January 23 2011 16:38 SikLyric wrote: GOM acknowledged the issue, but did they fix the issue? It's hard to take this event seriously as a competition if players can hear cheesy openings. Jinro's scouting in game 3 vs MKP raised my suspicion.
I think you might just MIGHT be looking a bit to hard to find evidence of Jinro cheating, when you scout a player and you see on 14 food there is NO barracks, your going to search his entire base looking for the barracks not just say, oh well hmm theres no barracks thats strange i guess i will just go home, also he scouted at the normal time he does every game so please dont say he cheated there because he didnt, Jinro is a respectable trustworthy guy who is an amazing player at Starcraft 2.
lol funny how that goes .. tsk tsk bad start for GoM right there ..
this isn't the question "if jinro was cheating or did he heard something, blah blah blah"
this is about censoring a pretty much fixed problem.
too all the people post "let it go guys, they already addressed the issue so its ok to remove the said interview", GOM are the ones who didn't let go hence the censored interview days later. its just dumb. and dont talk about "lol at US people talking about censorship, this isn't US, blah blah blah" WTF is that?
I don't appreciate the censorship. I think it's ridiculous. If GOM.tv wants any credibility it would come from admitting their faults and showing an effort to improve on them rather then sweeping them under the rug.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/52HB8.jpg)
) Censorship IS censorship,no matter what are You trying to hide.
