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Why isn't 'Faster' Game Speed just 'Normal'? - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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azhang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States178 Posts
January 05 2011 21:18 GMT
#41
How can your arguement for merlin be correct? who says that a Real Time Strategy can be argued as in real time, i mean when was the last time you could make a factory in a minute, i mean seriouslty
Nydus in yo main.
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
January 05 2011 21:19 GMT
#42
It is because if they put faster as normal they have to put another "faster" setting wihch will be different from ladder game speeds. And blizz doesn't want to have anything faster than the ladder speed which is reasonable. So they choose it to be this way.
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-05 21:28:39
January 05 2011 21:28 GMT
#43
In my opinion the default speed for multiplayer should be the "normal" speed. If Blizzard slowed down the in-game clock and re-jiggered all the build times so that the time in multiplayer speed would be accurately represented compared to actual time it would make me happy.

Single player can still default to a slower speed, but that should be labelled "slower" and make the clock slower than an actual clock.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Xakta
Profile Joined August 2010
United States35 Posts
January 05 2011 21:30 GMT
#44
On January 06 2011 06:18 azhang wrote:
How can your arguement for merlin be correct? who says that a Real Time Strategy can be argued as in real time, i mean when was the last time you could make a factory in a minute, i mean seriouslty


I think you're confusing this with 'Awesome Starcraft' where Terran will now be required to apply for and receive the proper permits before constructing factories and other buildings.
Once you can accept the universe as being something expanding into an infinite nothing which is something, wearing stripes with plaid is easy - Einstein
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
January 05 2011 21:31 GMT
#45
Amazing how many people here actually are 100% incapable of understanding what the OP means - he isn't asking for changing ANYTHING AT ALL!

His whole point is, that the "faster" settings should the normal game time. There's no need for acceleration if literally every game is played on "faster". This way the "seconds" as displayed for buildtime/research/etc. would actually mean "seconds" and not some random number that you need to re-calculate to get real-time seconds.
For the ppl arguing that noobs need slower speeds. Well, duh, every other strategy game I know calls them "slow" and "slower" with "normal" being the general standard everybody plays on.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
KaiserW
Profile Joined November 2010
United States87 Posts
January 05 2011 21:32 GMT
#46
On January 06 2011 05:51 lindn wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.

How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.

EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl )

Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.

uhmm

he's not talking about lowering the game speed to normal just cause it's normal, he's talking about perhaps removing the term "faster" and have the faster speed be normal, therefore it wouldn't be 0.8 seconds per irl second or the crap that there is now, 1 ingame second would be 1 real time second and to adjust, just adjust the shooting/moving and all that speed so that the "normal" speed becomes the "faster" speed without any speed changes.

might be something to do for HotS?

basically, faster speed is now called normal speed and normal speed is now called slow (and slower for the slowest current speed) and the build time would actually be in seconds and not the 0.x second that there is today.


I agree with lindn; this is how I interpreted the OPost as well, and I have pondered over this myself.
I really do not understand how the OPoster could award the 'win' to Merlins post. He obviously didn't really comprehend what the OP was asking, as he assumes its QQ.


On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.


Precisely.
It may not be broken, but its a unnecessary layer of complexity.
Why not keep it simple?
1 minute real time=1 minute game time; yet the actual speed of the gameplay is equal to 'Faster'. Just like you explained.
"We are all but shadows in the void." - Stalker
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
January 05 2011 21:35 GMT
#47
yeah i actually find it stupid that even the apm is not relevant to actual minutes, no matter what the speed the game was played on. I mean, there is nothing more counter intuitive than to read the apm on the replay and it refering to ingame minutes.. stupid imo
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
January 05 2011 21:36 GMT
#48
I never played SC2, don't care about it and only clicked accidentally here, but it is incredible how much dissent the OP gets despite being 100% right (and yes, I can tell that without ever playing the game) and how much lack of understanding is in this thread. Anyway, I am back to BW Forum...
Xakta
Profile Joined August 2010
United States35 Posts
January 05 2011 21:40 GMT
#49
On January 06 2011 06:32 KaiserW wrote:
I agree with lindn; this is how I interpreted the OPost as well, and I have pondered over this myself.
I really do not understand how the OPoster could award the 'win' to Merlins post. He obviously didn't really comprehend what the OP was asking, as he assumes its QQ.


My original post went by the logic that 'Normal' is defined by the standards and norms of relevant parties, which I still believe is correct. However, it is indeed a 'Real-Time Strategy' game first and foremost and what everyone playing considers 'normal' is sorta irrelevant to the fact that 'Faster' is indeed faster than real-time.

If everyone that played Street Fighter IV sat around drinking tea during battles before peacefully declaring a draw, would it then no longer be a fighting game?
Once you can accept the universe as being something expanding into an infinite nothing which is something, wearing stripes with plaid is easy - Einstein
Tivo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States121 Posts
January 05 2011 21:41 GMT
#50
I've always assumed it was a carryover from SC1.
MOOG
Profile Joined October 2010
United States188 Posts
January 05 2011 21:42 GMT
#51
Because if you make what is currently labeled "faster" speed changed to "normal" speed, what is currently "normal" must be labeled "slow." Blizzard would then be calling the people who play the campaign (and don't change their settings) and the people in practice league "slow" players, which belittles them and makes them think that blizzard is saying they are retarded.



But despite all that I do agree with you-default ladder should be labeled normal speed. Removes time conversions for ladder games.
To Do: 1. finish the rest of my practice league matches 2. win GSL
Nchantress
Profile Joined December 2010
United States12 Posts
January 05 2011 21:45 GMT
#52
On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.

How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.

EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl )

Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.


Ding ding ding, winner!

It's annoying when people don't realize this and assume the in-game clock is in real time and not adjusted according to game speed.
Love me or hate me, approval neither desired nor required.
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
January 05 2011 21:47 GMT
#53
On January 06 2011 06:45 Nchantress wrote:
It's annoying when people don't realize this and assume the in-game clock is in real time and not adjusted according to game speed.

We realize this, the question posed in the thread is "why". And it's a good question.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
January 05 2011 21:48 GMT
#54
On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.


Or you could not be dense and realize the the problem people have with this is that APM, spell durations, the in game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. They just need to change the game clock to go in real time and change all durations on spells and whatnot to show what time they actually last depending on the speed.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-05 21:58:47
January 05 2011 21:56 GMT
#55
Slower game modes can still exist if ALL YOU DID was change the label "Faster" to "Normal" and adjust the written numbers the in-game clock+tooltips to reflect how much time shit takes with how long it takes in real seconds, rather than these retarded in-game seconds. Everything would be identical gameplay except the in-game clock!

Really now blizzard, why do you have to be so obtuse with your game time/real time bass-ackwardness?
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
January 05 2011 21:59 GMT
#56
If i want to perfect a build order i pratice it once on normal first and then practice it on fastest. I want to get a feel for the build and that can be difficult even for someone with high apm unless they really think about what they are doing.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Nchantress
Profile Joined December 2010
United States12 Posts
January 05 2011 22:05 GMT
#57
On January 06 2011 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.


Or you could not be dense and realize the the problem people have with this is that APM, spell durations, the in game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. They just need to change the game clock to go in real time and change all durations on spells and whatnot to show what time they actually last depending on the speed.


Something like altering the time/seconds based on game speed would be severely confusing for most of the user base.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if Force Field showed a different duration in Faster than compared to Normal, but people new to the game would be confused when switching from campaign/ai matches to multi-player. Or if the game clock showed X time had passed even though a given spells duration didn't last Y seconds as the tool tip stated.

Yes, most people play on Faster but let's be honest most people playing the game don't know the clock is sped up in Faster and the seconds displayed by tool tips are true to real time. The people that do realize this discrepancy understand why the difference is there and aren't effected by it at all.

The only thing it would do is serve to confuse people who didn't know anything was different in the first place - it would have 0 effect on people playing at a competitive level.

Having said all that, APM should be measured in real time because it's related directly to actions happening in real time where as other things are happening in game time despite the fact APM in SC2 is usually just for e-peen status.
Love me or hate me, approval neither desired nor required.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
January 05 2011 22:07 GMT
#58
Simply said: To please the noobs.

If Faster was Normal, and it'd be too fast for a bad player he would consider this game to be too difficult. If Faster is Faster and it is too fast for a bad player he will tell himself it is because everyone plays at a setting faster than what it is intended for. And instead of hate for the game he develops appreciation for people who can play it above Normal.

All these people saying because 1 second is not 1 second anymore are seriously ridiculous lol. If Faster was called Normal then 1 second would be 1 second and everything below normal would be slower than 1 second.

Not much else to discuss here. On TL everyone would understand if it was called Normal, but it's a choice Blizzard makes and it doesn't really harm us.
Administrator
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-05 22:12:41
January 05 2011 22:12 GMT
#59
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
MrShank
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada144 Posts
January 05 2011 22:14 GMT
#60
common knowledge, Normal = normal time, Faster = Faster time.
Relax - its just a game
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