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Is there any good reason that the 'Faster' game speed setting is not just 'Normal'? It's the default ladder game speed and I don't believe I've ever played at any other setting. This dates back to SC/BW even, where I believe it was 'Fastest' that everyone played on.
The only relevant reason this matters, and for me it doesn't anymore due to habit of translation, are the APM/Income Per minute statistics. Where it's per-game minute which is actually not a true minute as a result of the 'accelerated' game speed.
Does or has anyone ever used slower game modes, why?
UPDATE: MERLIN wins the thread.
On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.
How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.
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because normal is real time and faster is accelerated?
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I had a friend I used to play SC1 - BW on the slowest speed with because we were both bad and could never get what we wanted done on the highest speed - it was pretty fun, easier to micro/macro well.
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slower modes can be useful for practice
it gives you a chance to execute at a much higher level than you normally would so you become comfortable with what your play "should" look like
I don't know why the default speed is named "faster" as opposed to normal. Could just be a blizzard tradition (bw, wc3, wc2?)
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They should just make the game run that speed in normal time, and let the campaign be "slower" :p
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On January 06 2011 05:30 Tennet wrote:
because normal is real time and faster is accelerated?
nor·mal
[nawr-muhl]
–adjective
1.
conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
That's relative, who is it accelerated for? Only those who play at slower speeds, if statistically most everyone plays on 'Faster' or accelerated, than that would then be 'Normal'. That's my point, it's not a point worth making, I never said that. I'm at work and the thought just sorta hit me, I still catch myself forgetting the Game vs Real minute difference from time to time.
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So that I can say my APM is way higher that what my replays show...
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I think it's because the animations are ment for the normal speed, evendough we're all used to faster it's not how it's supposed to be.
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Completely agree, even if my life depended on it I couldn't find one reason why the standard faster-speed shouldn't be, well, "normal" - for me it's not the APM, but the game time / game clock. I hate it that you have to distinguish "normal life minutes/seconds" and "ingame minutes/seconds", only because of this retarded "faster" setting. Really beyond stupid.
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On January 06 2011 05:40 Ksyper wrote:
I think it's because the animations are ment for the normal speed, evendough we're all used to faster it's not how it's supposed to be.
i dont care about animations, though, i would very much like it for the clock to tick away normal seconds in my real games on battle.net. -.-
I mean, really, this is necessary?
and its kind of lame that a "22 minute" game is played in 15 minutes. i mean what is up with that? what made them think -that- is a good solution?
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This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.
How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.
EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl  )
Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.
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On January 06 2011 05:42 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:40 Ksyper wrote:
I think it's because the animations are ment for the normal speed, evendough we're all used to faster it's not how it's supposed to be. i dont care about animations, though, i would very much like it for the clock to tick away normal seconds in my real games on battle.net. -.- I mean, really, this is necessary? and its kind of lame that a "22 minute" game is played in 15 minutes. i mean what is up with that? what made them think -that- is a good solution?
THIS
my friends always get confused about the fact that in game time does not equal real time
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Its because the pros all played on Fastest in Starcraft 1.
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I agree with you OP, it's annoying to have to be like "ok so the tool tip says that NP lasts 10 seconds... wait, thats game time, how much is that in standard times?"
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Could someone shed some light on the APM being in game vs real time minutes?
Also when playing at "FasteR" in game (aka the regular speed)
It seems to me it is just a name, even if they call it something else it's still going at the same speed it always was.
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I think its simply just a delineation saying that one minute of game time in 'faster' is not actually one minute in real-time (~42sec vs 60sec). While faster speed is the 'norm' now (bc of BW), Blizz felt that it's still important to state this difference explicitly, or at least thats my guess.
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So how do you figure out what your APM is in terms of real time?
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On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.
This wins the thread I guess, can't really beat this point
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On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard. How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better. EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl ) Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.
uhmm
he's not talking about lowering the game speed to normal just cause it's normal, he's talking about perhaps removing the term "faster" and have the faster speed be normal, therefore it wouldn't be 0.8 seconds per irl second or the crap that there is now, 1 ingame second would be 1 real time second and to adjust, just adjust the shooting/moving and all that speed so that the "normal" speed becomes the "faster" speed without any speed changes.
might be something to do for HotS?
basically, faster speed is now called normal speed and normal speed is now called slow (and slower for the slowest current speed) and the build time would actually be in seconds and not the 0.x second that there is today.
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Normal is how the build time seconds are measured in the campaign and in real-time. Notice that Barracks don't actually take 50 seconds to make when playing on Faster.
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the first time i played sc2 (zerg reveal) the guy from PCGamer insisted that we play on 'normal' speed because it was... well, normal.
slowest 15 minutes ever.
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On January 06 2011 05:36 Xakta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:30 Tennet wrote:
because normal is real time and faster is accelerated? nor·mal [nawr-muhl] –adjective 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural. That's relative, who is it accelerated for? Only those who play at slower speeds, if statistically most everyone plays on 'Faster' or accelerated, than that would then be 'Normal'. That's my point, it's not a point worth making, I never said that. I'm at work and the thought just sorta hit me, I still catch myself forgetting the Game vs Real minute difference from time to time.
40 sec real time = 60 sec in game
the clock just goes faster... that's all it stands for, no hidden or double meaning
remember, blizzard is a big company and spends little time on simple things like this (and the map pool, lalawlawl)
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On January 06 2011 05:51 dabom88 wrote:
Normal is how the build time seconds are measured in the campaign and in real-time. Notice that Barracks don't actually take 50 seconds to make when playing on Faster.
he's not asking why it's named that, he's asking why not faster isn't just called normal
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On January 06 2011 05:31 Iamsmart wrote:
I had a friend I used to play SC1 - BW on the slowest speed with because we were both bad and could never get what we wanted done on the highest speed - it was pretty fun, easier to micro/macro well.
Exactly. Some people want to play on slow settings. If the fastest was called Normal, then there'd have to be Slow, Slower, Even Slower, Just About the Slowest, and Wow You Must be a Granma settings.
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On January 06 2011 05:53 lindn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:51 dabom88 wrote:
Normal is how the build time seconds are measured in the campaign and in real-time. Notice that Barracks don't actually take 50 seconds to make when playing on Faster. he's not asking why it's named that, he's asking why not faster isn't just called normal
Because normal is how the build time seconds are measured in the campaign and in real-time. Notice that Barracks don't actually take 50 seconds to make when playing on Faster.
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This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.
How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.
EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl )
Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.
Before you comment you should at least know what the topic is about. Also, who are you to judge what to make threads about?
Also, I too am a little disappointed, i remember I read somewhere a statement from Blizzard (may be only a blue post?) where they said they would address and change the "tradition" of making the "faster" setting the standard setting, and instead actually create a legit faster than standard setting. It seems they've failed though 
I also don't understand why the campaign is played on Normal. Assuming they simply felt the speed was better for single player, perhaps keeping Campaign on Normal and Multi on Faster makes it sound more fun to [new] players? It sounds more appealing than, let's say, Campaign being on Slow or Slower while Multi is played on Normal. (It makes the Campaign less appealing I mean, because [new] people will think "oh, i'm on slow mode...")
That's the only reason why they may have changed it. Well, other than the tradition thing and perhaps simply because they didn't have the time to change things around.
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because blizzard doesnt want to hurt the feelings of the newer people lol
most of us play on the fastest game setting, but blizzard thinks thats too fast for newbies so they start us out at a slower speed. but since i guess blizzard doesnt want to call all of their newer player base "slow" or "slower", they named it "normal" instead
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I wish that it were normal and there were "faster" speeds to use so that everything seems slower and easier in a normal game.
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Obvious reason: This game goes to "faster"
Its the same with everything, like:
(last few seconds of vid have the answer in it)
+ Show Spoiler +
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I also don't understand why the campaign is played on Normal.
actually, you can go to the options in SP and set the gamespeed to faster...hell, i would have died to play the campaign (3 or 4 times now) on normal speed.
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On January 06 2011 05:50 LazyMacro wrote:
So how do you figure out what your APM is in terms of real time?
easy, just multiply your in game APM by 1.395
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its pretty simple, games have different speeds for different skill levels.
Slow for the real complete gaming noobs
Normal for the casual campaign player
fast for the more skillful campaign player
faster for the the more skilled
this has been the norm for 25 years in pretty much every game i've played that had speed settings. The "normal" speed sat at roughly real time and then the online and competitive players always played on the fastest speed possible.
This is why we play on ladder at faster, because its competitive and much more exciting and difficult on faster.
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It's amusing how most people who posted here missed OP's point entirely.
He's not asking what's the difference between faster and normal, or why is it that way.
He's asking why isnt the normal speed the accelerated version since that's the speed we play on 99.99% of our games, meaning the NORMAL is never used, and just makes for confusing timers (like the example someone gave of playing a 22 minute game when in reality he spent 15 minutes).
The only reason I can think of is, if faster was normal, then you couldnt have a faster speed than normal, and the game would look kinda odd having "slower, slow, normal" speeds, but no fast. But I agree all the timers should be conversed on the faster settings (for patch notes and everything), if you're not gonna name it normal.
[edit]
What butter said
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On January 06 2011 05:58 Sewi wrote:Obvious reason: This game goes to "faster" Its the same with everything, like: (last few seconds of vid have the answer in it) + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGGwY6rPDmw
this is the best explaination i've seen so far.
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it is only a matter of presentation. just like the reason the remove copper league and have diamond league in later stages of beta. to fool the idiots 
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So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.
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On January 06 2011 05:33 alphafuzard wrote:
slower modes can be useful for practice
it gives you a chance to execute at a much higher level than you normally would so you become comfortable with what your play "should" look like
I don't know why the default speed is named "faster" as opposed to normal. Could just be a blizzard tradition (bw, wc3, wc2?)
Wc3 used "Fast" -fastest setting as the "Normal" one where 8 seconds on a cooldown was 8 seconds in "Fast" but not any of the lower settings
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On January 06 2011 05:51 Xakta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard. This wins the thread I guess, can't really beat this point
Fastest is in real time too... All of space and time doesn't accelerate from the norm.
Yes 40 seconds= 60 seconds on fastest, but that's because it was made this way, they could make it so 40 seconds = 40 seconds and everything is just accelerated.
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On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.
You are completing missing the point of this thread as are the people saying "Merlin wins the thread."
He is asking why "faster" isn't *NAMED* "normal" since it is the default speed. Nobody wants to change the speed, just the names.
edit: after rereading the OP it seems that even he is confused as to what he's trying to say. This thread has two different discussions going on at the same time.
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It makes sense for the default speed to be called "Normal". Then normal would be renamed slower.
Pretty sloppy from design standpoint because the clock speed/apm counts are skewed
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How can your arguement for merlin be correct? who says that a Real Time Strategy can be argued as in real time, i mean when was the last time you could make a factory in a minute, i mean seriouslty
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It is because if they put faster as normal they have to put another "faster" setting wihch will be different from ladder game speeds. And blizz doesn't want to have anything faster than the ladder speed which is reasonable. So they choose it to be this way.
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In my opinion the default speed for multiplayer should be the "normal" speed. If Blizzard slowed down the in-game clock and re-jiggered all the build times so that the time in multiplayer speed would be accurately represented compared to actual time it would make me happy.
Single player can still default to a slower speed, but that should be labelled "slower" and make the clock slower than an actual clock.
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On January 06 2011 06:18 azhang wrote:
How can your arguement for merlin be correct? who says that a Real Time Strategy can be argued as in real time, i mean when was the last time you could make a factory in a minute, i mean seriouslty
I think you're confusing this with 'Awesome Starcraft' where Terran will now be required to apply for and receive the proper permits before constructing factories and other buildings.
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Amazing how many people here actually are 100% incapable of understanding what the OP means - he isn't asking for changing ANYTHING AT ALL!
His whole point is, that the "faster" settings should the normal game time. There's no need for acceleration if literally every game is played on "faster". This way the "seconds" as displayed for buildtime/research/etc. would actually mean "seconds" and not some random number that you need to re-calculate to get real-time seconds.
For the ppl arguing that noobs need slower speeds. Well, duh, every other strategy game I know calls them "slow" and "slower" with "normal" being the general standard everybody plays on.
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On January 06 2011 05:51 lindn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard. How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better. EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl ) Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow. uhmm he's not talking about lowering the game speed to normal just cause it's normal, he's talking about perhaps removing the term "faster" and have the faster speed be normal, therefore it wouldn't be 0.8 seconds per irl second or the crap that there is now, 1 ingame second would be 1 real time second and to adjust, just adjust the shooting/moving and all that speed so that the "normal" speed becomes the "faster" speed without any speed changes. might be something to do for HotS? basically, faster speed is now called normal speed and normal speed is now called slow (and slower for the slowest current speed) and the build time would actually be in seconds and not the 0.x second that there is today.
I agree with lindn; this is how I interpreted the OPost as well, and I have pondered over this myself.
I really do not understand how the OPoster could award the 'win' to Merlins post. He obviously didn't really comprehend what the OP was asking, as he assumes its QQ.
On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.
Precisely.
It may not be broken, but its a unnecessary layer of complexity.
Why not keep it simple?
1 minute real time=1 minute game time; yet the actual speed of the gameplay is equal to 'Faster'. Just like you explained.
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yeah i actually find it stupid that even the apm is not relevant to actual minutes, no matter what the speed the game was played on. I mean, there is nothing more counter intuitive than to read the apm on the replay and it refering to ingame minutes.. stupid imo
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I never played SC2, don't care about it and only clicked accidentally here, but it is incredible how much dissent the OP gets despite being 100% right (and yes, I can tell that without ever playing the game) and how much lack of understanding is in this thread. Anyway, I am back to BW Forum...
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On January 06 2011 06:32 KaiserW wrote:
I agree with lindn; this is how I interpreted the OPost as well, and I have pondered over this myself.
I really do not understand how the OPoster could award the 'win' to Merlins post. He obviously didn't really comprehend what the OP was asking, as he assumes its QQ.
My original post went by the logic that 'Normal' is defined by the standards and norms of relevant parties, which I still believe is correct. However, it is indeed a 'Real-Time Strategy' game first and foremost and what everyone playing considers 'normal' is sorta irrelevant to the fact that 'Faster' is indeed faster than real-time.
If everyone that played Street Fighter IV sat around drinking tea during battles before peacefully declaring a draw, would it then no longer be a fighting game?
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I've always assumed it was a carryover from SC1.
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Because if you make what is currently labeled "faster" speed changed to "normal" speed, what is currently "normal" must be labeled "slow." Blizzard would then be calling the people who play the campaign (and don't change their settings) and the people in practice league "slow" players, which belittles them and makes them think that blizzard is saying they are retarded.
But despite all that I do agree with you-default ladder should be labeled normal speed. Removes time conversions for ladder games.
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On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard. How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better. EDIT: Also reading the comments, this game would blow balls and each game would take 1 hour if it was normal time, I like the fact it is accelerated as would any gamer who plays a lot (and is actually good... uhoh there goes a few ppl ) Let's just say, hey good idea... Now games won't get so drawn out. Ever play the game on "normal real-life time?" Holy fuck its boring and slow.
Ding ding ding, winner!
It's annoying when people don't realize this and assume the in-game clock is in real time and not adjusted according to game speed.
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On January 06 2011 06:45 Nchantress wrote:
It's annoying when people don't realize this and assume the in-game clock is in real time and not adjusted according to game speed.
We realize this, the question posed in the thread is "why". And it's a good question.
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On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken.
Or you could not be dense and realize the the problem people have with this is that APM, spell durations, the in game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. They just need to change the game clock to go in real time and change all durations on spells and whatnot to show what time they actually last depending on the speed.
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Slower game modes can still exist if ALL YOU DID was change the label "Faster" to "Normal" and adjust the written numbers the in-game clock+tooltips to reflect how much time shit takes with how long it takes in real seconds, rather than these retarded in-game seconds. Everything would be identical gameplay except the in-game clock!
Really now blizzard, why do you have to be so obtuse with your game time/real time bass-ackwardness?
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If i want to perfect a build order i pratice it once on normal first and then practice it on fastest. I want to get a feel for the build and that can be difficult even for someone with high apm unless they really think about what they are doing.
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On January 06 2011 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:08 MERLIN. wrote:
So the main arguments is instead of keeping it the way it is, you want to SPEED UP everything, to accomidate the time, but slow down the time of the game to normal speed... So worker will now build faster mine faster but time will be regular... OR they could keep the system the way it is, why fix something that isn't broken. Or you could not be dense and realize the the problem people have with this is that APM, spell durations, the in game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. They just need to change the game clock to go in real time and change all durations on spells and whatnot to show what time they actually last depending on the speed.
Something like altering the time/seconds based on game speed would be severely confusing for most of the user base.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem if Force Field showed a different duration in Faster than compared to Normal, but people new to the game would be confused when switching from campaign/ai matches to multi-player. Or if the game clock showed X time had passed even though a given spells duration didn't last Y seconds as the tool tip stated.
Yes, most people play on Faster but let's be honest most people playing the game don't know the clock is sped up in Faster and the seconds displayed by tool tips are true to real time. The people that do realize this discrepancy understand why the difference is there and aren't effected by it at all.
The only thing it would do is serve to confuse people who didn't know anything was different in the first place - it would have 0 effect on people playing at a competitive level.
Having said all that, APM should be measured in real time because it's related directly to actions happening in real time where as other things are happening in game time despite the fact APM in SC2 is usually just for e-peen status.
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Simply said: To please the noobs.
If Faster was Normal, and it'd be too fast for a bad player he would consider this game to be too difficult. If Faster is Faster and it is too fast for a bad player he will tell himself it is because everyone plays at a setting faster than what it is intended for. And instead of hate for the game he develops appreciation for people who can play it above Normal.
All these people saying because 1 second is not 1 second anymore are seriously ridiculous lol. If Faster was called Normal then 1 second would be 1 second and everything below normal would be slower than 1 second.
Not much else to discuss here. On TL everyone would understand if it was called Normal, but it's a choice Blizzard makes and it doesn't really harm us.
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United States17042 Posts
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common knowledge, Normal = normal time, Faster = Faster time.
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On January 06 2011 07:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Simply said: To please the noobs.
If Faster was Normal, and it'd be too fast for a bad player he would consider this game to be too difficult. If Faster is Faster and it is too fast for a bad player he will tell himself it is because everyone plays at a setting faster than what it is intended for. And instead of hate for the game he develops appreciation for people who can play it above Normal.
All these people saying because 1 second is not 1 second anymore are seriously ridiculous lol. If Faster was called Normal then 1 second would be 1 second and everything below normal would be slower than 1 second.
Not much else to discuss here. On TL everyone would understand if it was called Normal, but it's a choice Blizzard makes and it doesn't really harm us.
Then how do you explain all ladder matches are played on faster?
I think there is no rational explanation and blizzard could not be damned to give us one even if they tried.
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What? No, "normal" is calibrated to the speed that an SCV moves at in real life, but they realized that would be too slow of a pace to play the game at on a regular basis, so they made "faster" the speed ladder games are played at.
Don't believe me? Watch the SCVs working next time you're going by the space construction site on the way to sector 54 to grab a Warp Burger. That's how fast they really move.
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Legacy from BW. The originally intended everyone to play at normal, but people played on fastest instead. The original BW ladder was on "normal".
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Its something to "confuse" players, as all players at the start think that fastest is actual 1on1 for game to real time; while its not.
That this also messes with APM and all that stuff is just annoying.
Would be clearly better to make it "normal" just for name conversion.
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On January 06 2011 05:51 Xakta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard. This wins the thread I guess, can't really beat this point
That doesn't make sense at all.. If you're going by that logic then "REAL time" would be exactly that, and I've never seen a probe, or scv, or drone.. infact it was blizzard who createdt hem and blizzard who decided how long it should take to "build"/"train"/"grow"/"hatch"/"whateveryouwanttocallit" so they, in turn also get to decide what is normal.. and well that's just how I see it, it's just a name for something, if you call it something else it's still the same thing..
meh no matter which way you look at it the question is moot.
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On January 06 2011 07:41 thurst0n wrote:
no matter which way you look at it the question is moot.
That's my stance on the matter at this point.
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England74 Posts
BECAUSE IT'S SLOW AS FUCK
Seriously... If you tell me it's enjoyable to play with everything going at sub-snail speed, you're a liar.
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On January 06 2011 05:48 Endymion wrote:
I agree with you OP, it's annoying to have to be like "ok so the tool tip says that NP lasts 10 seconds... wait, thats game time, how much is that in standard times?"
8 seconds.
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I think everyone is missing the main reason that Blizzard has everyone play on Faster instead of just naming it Normal.
Notice the build times of everything are whole numbers (such as marine training time is 25 seconds). By balancing numbers on Normal, they can use whole numbers and just set the ratios between the build times to balance the game. Then just speed up the game so everything isn't slow.
They won't have to mess with times like 12.25 seconds to balance.
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Is anybody else extremely confused by the OP?
He starts out asking a good question, if "faster (or fastest, or whatever it's called)" is the DEFAULT speed for multiplayer, then why is that not considered the "normal" speed, with APM, build times, game clock, etc... adjusted for that time. He's not asking for any actual speeds to be changed, simply saying why isn't the multiplayer default speed labeled "normal," and supporting time based information calibrated to that speed. FWIW I agree with the original post, the multiplayer default speed (the one current used) should be LABELED as normal, and "normal" times should be set to that speed.
Then Merlin goes and posts something totally irrelvant to the OPs question:
On January 06 2011 05:43 MERLIN. wrote:
This topic ... Is dumb, its "normal" because they imply "Real time" strategy to be played in "real time" but on the "faster" settings it is accelerated real time, such that it is no longer normal and 1 second no longer is the standard.
How about stop nitpicking things, and just get better.
There is no "real time" it's a non realistic video game. The "real time" it theoretically takes to build something or move X distance is just arbitrary amounts of time created by blizzard. It's not like we are playing a realism based FPS or something and "faster" meant that people moved at a speed beyond that of real life humans, starcraft has no "real life" compaison.
If fastest is the default multiplayer speed, then that's the speed build times and stuff should be labelled for, and the speed the game clock should run at, and the speed APM should calculate for. To do otherwise is silly.
And then the OP inexplicably says "Merlin win's the thread"... What???
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in sc1, the standard speed was normal. players felt that normal speed was too slow, and so they played on faster speed. blizzard kept it that way for starcraft 2, i suppose since people are used to things being timed based on faster speed.
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On January 06 2011 06:40 Xakta wrote:
My original post went by the logic that 'Normal' is defined by the standards and norms of relevant parties, which I still believe is correct. However, it is indeed a 'Real-Time Strategy' game first and foremost and what everyone playing considers 'normal' is sorta irrelevant to the fact that 'Faster' is indeed faster than real-time.
If everyone that played Street Fighter IV sat around drinking tea during battles before peacefully declaring a draw, would it then no longer be a fighting game?
What?
Yes it would.
I don't know why people think that real-time in the context of a video game genre implies that it has to be consistent with how we measure time in real-life. It doesn't imply that at all, it just helps us get a feel for it when it is 1:1 and we will find a way to figure out how the game clocks everything each real-life second.
Real-time just means that there is a continuous in-game clock (unless the game halts) that every action is based off of, unlike turn-based games which clock the game in turns, and turns are can be infinite or infinitesimal.
So that is not an argument for Normal speed.
The only argument is that Blizzard said so. They did that probably for new players to the real-time strategy genre (probably the same reason they did it in the original). That's probably why single-player defaults to it as well Practice League and the Challenges (well it's forced in Challenges).
Otherwise, Faster is the standard for multiplayer and competition, because those players tend to demand faster speeds, which makes the game a bit harder as you have less time to think about your actions, so it makes competition more interesting.
There's your "why." (not necessarily for the OP, as he seems to not care anymore)
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On January 06 2011 07:24 farseerdk wrote:
Legacy from BW. The originally intended everyone to play at normal, but people played on fastest instead. The original BW ladder was on "normal".
This. Stupid tradition -.-
User was warned for this post
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Same reason as bonus pool and leagues, tricking noobs into thinking they aren't terrible.
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the biggest problem changing faster to normal is that all the info like cooldown and build time would be really awkward. such as 11.667 seconds or 43.245 seconds (random numbers). no point in changing what we're already used to.
for example fungal growth lasts 8 seconds in normal time. if it's in faster mode, you can look at the in game clock and count 8 seconds. however if everything was changed, then fungal growth would now show a 5.33 second duration which would just be weird
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EPT
