Yes and no. It's the reason for all of the complaints listed in the OP, but I think the OP believes that Blizzard will do something eventually. I mean we're still waiting for Shakuras to be re-added to the map pool.... The only way anything will ever happen is if the community takes it upon itself to make a change, which is really really difficult. But there really isn't any other way you're going to see a healthy rotation of maps. Blizzard are just leaving it up to the community to figure it out.

I'm not sure I understand. How exactly CAN the community do anything? I mean, we HAVE done something, there are tons of great maps out there.

In terms of getting them into the map pool, thats entirely on Blizzard, we have no control over that. So how exactly is Blizzard expecting us to "figure it out"?

ghermination

United States2851 Posts

December 24 2010 00:04 GMT

#24

Blizzard probably isn't going to switch up the map pool for a year, if ever, until HoTS is released. Until then they're happy that they've made a lot of money and still have two more games to sell you. With Activision at the reigns i wouldn't be surprised to see a $20 map pack come out at some point. Or maybe a $25 "Balance pack" that actually makes the game fun and competitive?

Treadmill

Canada2833 Posts

December 24 2010 00:06 GMT

#25

Hasn't blizzard said that they're doing a ladder reset in January? My expectation would be for blizzard to change the map pool then. They're going to set up a 'season' system, right? So it would be natural for them to switch up the maps for each season.
Edit: and to not mess with the maps between seasons.

Barbiero

Brazil5259 Posts

December 24 2010 00:07 GMT

#26

What bugs me the most is that they CAN make good maps. Take some 2v2 maps, they are great. Big maps, but not as huge as Oasis. Expansions everywhere, but not Shakuras-like where you can expand like no-problem. By tweaking them a bit, I think all the 2v2 maps would end up beeing really good for the ladder.

Just my thought.

FuRong

New Zealand3089 Posts

December 24 2010 00:10 GMT

#27

Regardless of what Blizzard does, I think the best thing we can do as a community is show that we support independent map developers. The GSL will always be forced to use the Blizzard map pool, but there's no reason why other tournament organisers can't start substituting ICCUP maps for some of the more imbalanced Blizzard ones.

vrok

Sweden2541 Posts

December 24 2010 00:11 GMT

#28

On December 24 2010 09:04 Subversion wrote:

Show nested quote +

Whine, whine and whine until tournament organizers start using proper maps designed for tournament play. The maps will spread from there via pro players to other tournaments, practice partners and casuals with an interest in playing real Starcraft. Chat channels are a decent enough tool for enabling this process. If you meant the ladder map pool then no, that thing is basically dead. Blizzard will never be able to keep up.

We should take every chance we get when leaving feedback regarding tournaments to whine about bad and/or imbalanced maps like SoW, DQ, JB, BS and even close position Metalopolis.

Ai52487963

United Kingdom136 Posts

December 24 2010 00:13 GMT

#29

Didn't MLG_Lee talk about *maybe* using custom maps for the MLG events at some vague point in the future?

I feel like if MLG started using more and more ICCup maps, things could take a different turn. MLG already has their own map pool for Halo, where they tweaked all of Bungie's terrible ideas for competitive gameplay. That caused a huge shift for competitive Halo towards the redesigned MLG maps. They should think about maybe hiring the ICCup guys to do maps for them or something.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

December 24 2010 00:17 GMT

#30

hm at some point people will win over their lazyness and start doing things on their own. So i don't really worry about it that much. Though the build in multiplayer support became better, so its harder for people to integrate their own stuffies, since people are lazy to switch from a running system even if they complain.
Also companys take more care over their products, to prevent to much 3rd party stuff.
So sc2 could really well end up like wc3 .

Will take some high donated tourneys that just force their maps. So pros will start to train these maps. As long its more rentable to play the blizzard maps, they will evade to train other maps. And even if the map is good the play on the map will not look to good and the map will be forgotton really fast. (If prize money is low)

And since it sounds like blizzard is working close together with gomtv, well ^^ ...

All it needs are people that can mobilize the masses hehe.

PS: merry christmas ! ^^

Lonyo

United Kingdom3884 Posts

December 24 2010 00:18 GMT

#31

Simple solution(s):
PTR where user maps are tested.
Varied map pool depending on league. Higher leagues have more maps, because you don't need to keep it simple as the players are better.
Bronze has ~9 maps like now. Silver/Gold maybe have one or two more, Plat/Gold maybe some more, Diamond has more maps too.
These maps are derived from the user maps/PTR testing to check for balance/etc.

That way the lower level players don't get overwhelmed, maps don't get randomly thrown in, and higher level players have a bigger and hopefully more varied map pool.
Blizzard (IIRC) already owns all the rights to your map anyway when you upload it.

NuKedUFirst

Canada3139 Posts

December 24 2010 00:26 GMT

#32

Yeah, They really need to rotate maps every 3 (or less)months or so, it will give tournaments more options for their tournaments and allow them to pick and choose their maps balance wise.

Their current "Add any whenever, take any out some randomly, but never rotate maps" mind set is just awful.

pzea469

United States1520 Posts

December 24 2010 00:48 GMT

#33

I think MAYBE we need to stop playing ladder and simply start playing on ICCUP maps. Yeah, auto-matchmaking is awesome, but if it means boring maps that i don't like then I'd gladly give it up and play custom games. ICCUP and bw ramake maps make me drewl.

fabiano

Brazil4644 Posts

December 24 2010 00:55 GMT

#34

We are hostages of the Blizzard mapmakers, there is nothing we can do but hope GSL adms notice a change must be made.

monitor

United States2408 Posts

December 24 2010 01:09 GMT

#35

With chat channels coming out, I think the community will have an easier time playing on custom maps.

Now, even finding a game on a custom map is hard because of the popularity system. When chat channels come out, I'm sure there will be a channel like "Custom Melee" to find games with friends.

Blyadischa

419 Posts

December 24 2010 01:33 GMT

#36

I think the current map pool is rubbish and is one reason that SC2 is less interesting to watch and easier to play. Look at blistering sands, then look at fighting spirit, blistering sands' ground distance from base to base was still smaller than fighting spirit. The ground distances of SC2 maps are all steppes of war compared to SC1, this leads to stronger 1 base play, stronger all ins, stronger proxies, basically stronger gimmicks. Not only are gimmicks buffed by the tiny size of the maps, but mid and late game are all made easier because each expansion progression has a direct path on every map, and expansions are too close to each other. This means 1. no REAL multi pronged attacks, 2. no multi tasking from the players, 3. expansions are less strategic (think about expansions in SC1, you could take an expansion far from your forces and their forces, and when your opponent tried to attack it, you could counter attack) and 4. AOE and splash units are severely buffed because a large amount of forces can't move anywhere without being clumped up (metalopolis comes to mind)

ZerOfy

United Kingdom405 Posts

December 24 2010 01:44 GMT

#37

AGREED.

Need good maps for the love of Flash.

Steel

Japan2283 Posts

December 24 2010 01:48 GMT

#38

Since Blizzard is associated with the GSL, since the GSL makes a lot of money, and finally since the GSL is going to need new maps to satisfy the pro-games and the viewers, new maps will be made. Believe it or not the Starcraft 2 pro-scene is profitable.

ReketSomething

United States6012 Posts

December 24 2010 01:51 GMT

#39

On December 24 2010 09:48 pzea469 wrote:
I think MAYBE we need to stop playing ladder and simply start playing on ICCUP maps. Yeah, auto-matchmaking is awesome, but if it means boring maps that i don't like then I'd gladly give it up and play custom games. ICCUP and bw ramake maps make me drewl.

Problem is that there are no game names and theres no way to know if theres a map opening. For example, if you want to play FS, you will join and then wait forever. No one will know that you are waiting. Also, since theres no game name, D/1000 diamond player may join when you are B-/3000 diamond or something...

bkrow

Australia8532 Posts

December 24 2010 02:11 GMT

#40

The map saga has been argued since day one.. Blizzard controls the map pool with their seemingly substandard map making team; imo it is to maintain some form of control over a recently released game - which is understandable.. The amount of uproar there has been around the map system has definately been heard by blizzard; it was reinforced when GSL removed the veto system and forced players to compete on subpar maps for the occassion. These things take time though - starcraft 2 is one Blizzards babies and they don't want to give up to much to soon; this is i believe understandable.. Yes i want iCCup map makers; yes i want the community involved in deciding what works best but YES i want Blizzard to feel comfortable to endorse these actions, not through some coup.