EPTIs it too late to switch races? - Page 3
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Mongery
892 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
How i came to the decision to switch was i just stopped playing for a week. I thought about it, and after a while I realized terran just suits me more. However, i did fall of the top 200 pretty fucking hard though, so that sucks. But im getting it back. | ||
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NearPerfection
232 Posts
On December 09 2010 19:51 Keitzer wrote: because there was no TL;DR, i'm going to assume my own... play your "favorite" race.... if you play the imba race, GL with that because Starcraft is such a close game balance wise that you'll be switching race every patch. anyone kind enough to explain to me what TL:DR is? Team Liquid: Database what? | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:20 Kyuki wrote: This is detrimental to development. What will you do when your race gets figured out and other races catches up within the metagame, and a balance change happens and what not. Will you swap race again and have top players with that race laugh at you? The further we get into this game the harder it'll get to catch up when you swap races. This is the same bullshit that's going on when top players scream imba, and then a couple of weeks later the issues are resolved even without patching, and then patching happens and readjustments needs to occur again. What is fun has nothing to do with it, ofc it's fun to win, but you will not be a longterm winner if you think in balance terms. You need to just play the race that you are comfortable with and play it out to the max. What I'm saying is; dont choose your race because it's more powerful in certain situations in the metagame, but choose your race based upon your playstyle, comfort and perhaps what you see as potential within the race. Any other decision will backfire eventually. The OP is arguing that some types of units will always be better at a top level as long as the game is balanced for casual players. If this is true, which I believe it is, then it's likely that a player would win more and enjoy the game more with a certain race. Scroll through the pages here: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/individual-leagues#tblt-3441-1-0-DESC with this in mind: Protoss in Brood War was considered OP and easy-mode among D-C players on ICCUP. Someone ranked C on ICCUP in Brood War was definitely on a skill level comparable to top Diamond in SC2. Now, count the Protoss players in the above link. I've already posted this but, look at the winners in the SC2-tournaments registered by tl.net: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-6363-1-0-DESC Count the Terran players. At the same time there is a general consensus that the game is decently balanced because that is how it feels to the average player. That last link hints at an even worse balance if you consider that the Zerg/Protoss players have a large portion of their wins in show matches and KotH-formats. | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On December 09 2010 19:22 Melancholia wrote: I'm assuming that English isn't your first language? The phrasing of much of that was rather odd. Why does it matter? He made his point just fine and posting just to point out "I don't think you're native language is english" is stupid. There are a lot of people who don't speak english as their native language and mistakes will be made. Who cares. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:33 NearPerfection wrote: anyone kind enough to explain to me what TL:DR is? Team Liquid: Database what? Too Long, Didnt Read. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:35 Gigaudas wrote: The OP is arguing that some types of units will always be better at a top level as long as the game is balanced for casual players. If this is true, which I believe it is, then it's likely that a player would win more and enjoy the game more with a certain race. Scroll through the pages here: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/individual-leagues#tblt-3441-1-0-DESC with this in mind: Protoss in Brood War was considered OP and easy-mode among D-C players on ICCUP. Someone ranked C on ICCUP in Brood War was definitely on a skill level comparable to top Diamond in SC2. Now, count the Protoss players in the above link. I've already posted this but, look at the winners in the SC2-tournaments registered by tl.net: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-6363-1-0-DESC Count the Terran players. At the same time there is a general consensus that the game is decently balanced because that how it feels to the average player. That last link hints at an even worse balance if you consider that the Zerg/Protoss players have a large portion of their wins in show matches and KotH-formats. And I disagree completely. You can surely argue about these things, but it isnt anything else but theorycraft, especially in this game since it's so young. If you lean back on statistics like this you will fall over and die when they change. I don't care if this is the case Atm, tides will change and always have. All the info you post is pretty useless when you think longterm, which I would do if I wanted to play this game for more than just 1 expansion at a higher level. I never stated that the game is balanced or that there is no issues. Weather that is the case or not just is not important since THIS game is so new still. You see major changes coming with each patch, and you also see development in the actual games from all the different races. I will keep saying that if you include balance within your reasoning as to what race you will play, you will regret it later if it does not fit your own playstyle and your own comfort, because once the tides changes and players adapt to different metagame changes and responses, you will fall over and die. He/she asked a question and I'm responding to what I belive is the better way to view this longterm, and you disagreeing is completely fine with me, but I don't think you're making a case more than just presenting a bunch of numbers that tries to explain balance, which in itself is quite absurd imo. | ||
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diegonolan
United States54 Posts
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
switch at every patch. pro like morrow and tlo have switch, it's so in. :D | ||
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WAAA
New Zealand291 Posts
On December 09 2010 19:51 TheOne85 wrote: top wc3 player? should probably have a name listed for credibility here since your forum name yields absolutely no results, no videos, etc when it should. I believe he is cgz.perfect a mid-high level amatuer player I think he might of been improving alot before sc2 came out. As for your choice I find terran the most fun but I dont think the amount of unit control terran requires will satisfy you either depending on how you play. However I agree with some of what you said and by the sounds of it terran would fit you well.. my advice is to switch ! | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:43 Kyuki wrote: I will keep saying that if you include balance within your reasoning as to what race you will play, you will regret it later if it does not fit your own playstyle and your own comfort, because once the tides changes and players adapt to different metagame changes and responses, you will fall over and die. "The OP is arguing that some types of units will always be better at a top level as long as the game is balanced for casual players." You don't agree with this, I do. I feel that the statistics that I posted work well to back up the arguments of the OP. Games that are perceived as balanced are unbalanced at a top level - and the imbalances are those that one would expect with the OPs arguments in mind. In no way am I proving the points that OP made true and the statistics I posted do not prove imbalance. There are always too many variables to prove imbalance. But I feel that it hints at imbalances that can not be explained by the current meta game and that the imbalances (at a top level) are likely to last even through patching. It sounds to me like the OP might want to take it into consideration when choosing his race. | ||
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Condor
Netherlands188 Posts
Back on topic: In Broodwar, Ret was known for having some of the best ZvT and TvZ for a non-Korean player. His understanding of the matchup was much better than most, probably also due to playing both sides of the matchup. And finally, you are skilled with micro and macro, but you don't like some things in the matchup. Do you see opportunities for innovative play that you can create for yourself? I can start naming units, but I guess you thought about this for yourself? | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:57 Condor wrote: Yeah, TL: DR is a pest that deserves to be exterminated. What, can't have a discussion with founded arguments (you know the ones that are not just oneliner vacuous talking points)? Totally agree. Sorry to get off topic but I don't really see the point of it. If the original post is too long then don't participate in the discussion! The OP took time to write out his whole argument/point, you shouldn't respond if you didn't take the time to read it in my opinion. Plus anything you say after just skimming it over or reading a TL;DR might easily have already been covered by the OP. | ||
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Darren1337
Ireland73 Posts
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TALegion
United States1187 Posts
 Zerg to Protoss is really difficult for me, but I just like playing Brotoss SO much more. | ||
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NearPerfection
232 Posts
On December 09 2010 21:03 Darren1337 wrote: I think you confused micro with macro a lot. Stick with the race you're comfortable with. Who knows, Protoss might be perceived to be the new "op" race when the GSL is over. Maybe not. My definition of Micro/Macro Micro: Unit control oriented - Unit positioning, Moving back damaged units. Using abilities to maximum efficiency, target firing. Macro Building Control Oriented - Using resources most efficiently, producing units, producing buildings when needed etc. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
On December 09 2010 18:55 NearPerfection wrote: I enjoy microing more than macroing but my macro is quite good anyway thanks to Wc3. I think people are referring to this. Seems like they're just reversed there. | ||
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NearPerfection
232 Posts
On December 09 2010 21:14 MementoMori wrote: I think people are referring to this. Seems like they're just reversed there. Comparing Wc3 to Sc1 you would definitely have a strong point, but some things to take into account is that in Wc3 units that are training don't have a bar hovered over the building that tells you when something is finished. Secondly, at least the race i played in Wc3 had 3 seperate unit tech structures to macro off of. This is not so different in Sc2. 3rdly constantly producing workers is pretty simple because I have all my Nexus in 1 control group with rally points preset and i just press probe however many times as i have Nexus | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On December 09 2010 20:56 Gigaudas wrote: "The OP is arguing that some types of units will always be better at a top level as long as the game is balanced for casual players." You don't agree with this, I do. I feel that the statistics that I posted work well to back up the arguments of the OP. Games that are perceived as balanced are unbalanced at a top level - and the imbalances are those that one would expect with the OPs arguments in mind. In no way am I proving the points that OP made true and the statistics I posted do not prove imbalance. There are always too many variables to prove imbalance. But I feel that it hints at imbalances that can not be explained by the current meta game and that the imbalances (at a top level) are likely to last even through patching. It sounds to me like the OP might want to take it into consideration when choosing his race. What? How can you say that, when you first admit that the things you are indeed provide are Hints at best. You even claim that there is imbalance at top level, at the same time as you say it's too many variables to prove imbalance. The post is very contradicting. Anyway, short term thinking will lead you to choose your race based upon what you percieve as balance, weather that is backed up by other peoples opinion or stats that is bound to change over a longer period of time. That is my opinion. | ||
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