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On December 04 2010 12:00 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:56 Nobu wrote:
I hope this doesnt get live. So the race with worst Antiair is losing FG on air units+protoss build time reduced. And the people from blizzard didn't watch the GSl lately. All TvZ are 2rax+scv all-in, and they reduce bunker build time? I need that someone explain this to me because i dont know how they can get to that idea and actually think that is a good way to fix something (don't even know what are they trying to fix). Zerg has the worst anti-air? Really, you say that with a straight face?
Tell me which AA unit is strong, because muta is the only thing that is useful and I think that i dont need to explain how badly they get raped by a bunch of phoenix. Also by worst antiair im talking about how late we get AA and is not even a strong AA because hidra are just so slow off creep, spores cost us drones not just mineral as cannons or turrets, and corrupters arent that good to pay of for the spire, so yeah, our AA suxx or thats my opinion 
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On December 04 2010 12:03 grAyf0x wrote:Gief screenshots please
This!!!!
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On December 04 2010 11:46 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:25 StoLiVe wrote:
ZvP will be so broken now. how can zerg kill air unit ?
muta ? phoenix can kyte them for ever.
hydra ? too slow wont be able to hit anything because the god damn FG can,t hit aire.
Queen? are you kidding me ? You're going to have to do more then make mutas for total air control. Boo hoo. Maybe zerg will stop staying on t2 so long.
There's no AA help in T3.
We just have to either defend with corruptors (which honestly are pretty strong AA), or spore up and attempt to overwhelm them on the ground.
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Oh christ, haha.
I actually faced so much stargate openers recently, and lost to them... I practiced a good bunch of games against this build with different toss that were willing to, trying different thing to deal with it.
Corruptors don't work against pheonixes, to those saying it is the key. The range is slightly too short, the shooting time too slow, and most of all the speed of the corruptor not sufficient to handle them. Let alone the fact that pheonixes come out way sooner. Also, corruptors get torn apart by void rays.
Spore Crawlers are kinda good, but the range is slightly too short once again, and hurts the economy (let's say 5 workers lost to making spores, add that to the larva you will inevitably use to make overlords that got owned). It becomes really expensive, especially if you have to rebuild queens while doing so.
Hydras require good creep spread, and come out too late (mostly because you are starving for minerals for the reason I mentionned above, so you cut on the gas a bit). Usually by the time they are ready and able, damage has been done, and/or a colossus is out already anyway. Still a decent option I guess.
Best way I found was massing them queens. This also require good creep spread, but it doesn't fuck with your larva system too much, and they can transfuse if you have enough energy.
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dam no fungal on air is horrible imo!!
also i bet there will be an increase in bunker rushes!
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wow that's alot of changes..
phoenix build time from 45 -> 35?
and now Fungal Growth can no longer affect air units? i think ZvZ will change quite hugely..
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didnt they acknowledged TvP matchup was a little broken with T being too strong earlygame, and P demolishing lategame?
i can see how phoenix/voidray change can change earlygame a little in favor of toss (not too much tho), but where is terran lategame buff, or storm nerf?
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Interesting changes, I must say.
Most important changes are probably the FG nerf, the Phoenix buff and the repairing SCV priority change.
We'll see if VR really become a counter for Colossi, but I doubt it as they still have to be in Stalker range. We'll see.
Good thing it's only a PTR patch because right now, it doesn't really address some core issues like P being too vulnerable in the early game (and having a very strong late game).
How long until we see a Carrier buff? Right now, they're extremely pathetic. 450/250/6 for a meager 26,7 DPS (not 80 as the buggy tool tip suggests because Interceptor CD is actually 3.0) is absolutely terrible, even with a max range of 14. Even BCs have way more DPS with less upgrade requirements and quite similiar damage scaling.
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I am very curious to see how the Phoenix, Void Ray, and Fungal Growth changes will effect games. It looks like the only way Zerg can fight high Phoenix numbers now is Hydra's or Curruptors. I might have to switch back to toss, aiur is tempting me.
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going to practice some 1 base double stargate phoenix fun!!!
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On December 04 2010 11:53 Zelniq wrote:my reply got kind of lost so ill say it again Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:25 Zelniq wrote:
OK so I have a legit source that told me the reason for this infestor fungal nerf was because they removed void ray's speed upgrade. If that's the case why can't they just instead make it so:
- Void Rays are now immune to movement-impairing effects.
(which is only fungal growth)
This is the major issue I have with how Blizzard has been making balance and patch changes thus far. They make a broad change that affects all match ups to fix a single issue or as a justification for another change. They seem to have a severe lack of understanding of the bigger picture.
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dumb, no more flux vanes? Blizzard needs to just completely revamp what the void ray is because it's not working out.
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i think roach/corrupter will be a good build after this patch, which is a blast to play. upgraded roaches are amazing.
i now have another obstacle in my way when i think about making infestors. they have absurd unit attack prioity (first), and low life/no armor. and now they cant fungal air. they should buff neural parasite if they want to keep this change. they reduced the cost of observers, make NP castable while burrowed. back when i could abuse the burrow->NP bug i felt infestor's were more worthwhile an investment.
i think the change will effect zvz more then zvp. hydras without infestors lose to mutas with upgrades. muta wars it is then.
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lol.. I dont understand the reason for phoenix buff. It doesnt help PvT much at all.. but helps PvZ loads when it was already pretty balanced. They should be buffing protoss pvt not protoss pvz.. I would rather have cheaper phoenixes and longer build time since that would be useful PvT at least..
I though they were adding 2 leagues at the same time.. Is master league going to be the same as it was originally thought to be..? If so I still have a chance to get into it once I get active again.
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lets protoss be more creative
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On December 04 2010 12:06 0mar wrote:
dumb, no more flux vanes? Blizzard needs to just completely revamp what the void ray is because it's not working out.
Who even used flux vanes in anything but 'fun' games? I think I've seen it in like two tournament games, and I've seen a lot of bloody tournament games.
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PTR is available for anyone who doesn't know yet, just start up sc2
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EPT
