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On December 19 2010 05:50 Sorkoas wrote:
This really needs some options to get your units out faster and how many you want before you believe you're fine. Like I wanna do a double starpot 3x banshee + marines push into expansion but I don't have a marine out until 21 supply AFTER have made a bunker, lol.
this can easily be achieved by using waypoints.
Then weird switches liek this is just uhhh K..
23 Move SCV To Minerals
26 Move SCV To Gas
this is bottom line optimization of gas or mineral bound builds towards the specified target. if u dont want to bother with stuff like this, just ingore it and accept the loss of 1-3 seconds until u get that last marine out or something like that.  it wont make much of a difference usually.
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On December 19 2010 07:28 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +Then weird switches liek this is just uhhh K..
23 Move SCV To Minerals
26 Move SCV To Gas
this is bottom line optimization of gas or mineral bound builds towards the specified target. if u dont want to bother with stuff like this, just ingore it and accept the loss of 1-3 seconds until u get that last marine out or something like that. it wont make much of a difference usually.
In a way I think this happens as a result of a flaw in my algorithm. Generally for a situation like above what it wants to do is get exactly enough gas for what it actually needs, but there's no way for it to say 'stop at x amount of gas' or anything like that, so its only means of control is to move workers one at a time at various points after certain other actions. There's no efficient way for me to allow the algorithm to stop workers at a particular amount of gas, so it's not really something I can fix anytime soon.
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Does the terran optimizer include the possibility of dropping depots instead of using a mule as part of a build optimization?
edit: Yes it does! Cool!
Thanks carbontwelve, these optimizers are really nice.
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On December 20 2010 13:24 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Does the terran optimizer include the possibility of dropping depots instead of using a mule as part of a build optimization?
edit: Yes it does! Cool!
Yep  However I might add an option to allow the user to disable the Calldown: Supply ability as I'd say most people for most build orders would only ever want to use MULEs (or scans - I do plan to add the option to specify scans as a requirement).
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On December 20 2010 13:28 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 13:24 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Does the terran optimizer include the possibility of dropping depots instead of using a mule as part of a build optimization?
edit: Yes it does! Cool! Yep However I might add an option to allow the user to disable the Calldown: Supply ability as I'd say most people for most build orders would only ever want to use MULEs (or scans - I do plan to add the option to specify scans as a requirement).
scans would be great. like for example "use ur third 50 energy chunk to scan" or something like that.
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On December 20 2010 18:53 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 13:28 CarbonTwelve wrote:On December 20 2010 13:24 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Does the terran optimizer include the possibility of dropping depots instead of using a mule as part of a build optimization?
edit: Yes it does! Cool! Yep However I might add an option to allow the user to disable the Calldown: Supply ability as I'd say most people for most build orders would only ever want to use MULEs (or scans - I do plan to add the option to specify scans as a requirement). scans would be great. like for example "use ur third 50 energy chunk to scan" or something like that.
It'll just be a number requirement (ie, 2 scans). If you want it to use it by a particular time then you'd need to use a waypoint for it.
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On December 20 2010 19:08 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 18:53 Black Gun wrote:On December 20 2010 13:28 CarbonTwelve wrote:On December 20 2010 13:24 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Does the terran optimizer include the possibility of dropping depots instead of using a mule as part of a build optimization?
edit: Yes it does! Cool! Yep However I might add an option to allow the user to disable the Calldown: Supply ability as I'd say most people for most build orders would only ever want to use MULEs (or scans - I do plan to add the option to specify scans as a requirement). scans would be great. like for example "use ur third 50 energy chunk to scan" or something like that. It'll just be a number requirement (ie, 2 scans). If you want it to use it by a particular time then you'd need to use a waypoint for it.
yea, thats what i had in mind. sounds good^^
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Dakota_Fanning
Hungary2349 Posts
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I would like to make a suggestion to this awesome project: It would be nice to add a checkbox for terran that allows you to exclude "Calldown Extra Supplies". This option would force the build of a regular supply depot in order to reach the goal and allow the player to continue the transition into a standard middle-game without losing scans/mules. While certainly not optimal, it would probably be a bit more realistic at least.
An example to show the (current) problem would be a build order for 20 marines and 3 marauders.
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On December 21 2010 06:10 Selias wrote:
I would like to make a suggestion to this awesome project: It would be nice to add a checkbox for terran that allows you to exclude "Calldown Extra Supplies".
Read about 5 posts up
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Lol ok, thanks
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Thanks very much for that, I've been reading through it and it looks pretty comprehensive. I should be able to come up with a new output form to match that sometime soon (hard to know for sure with Christmas around the corner). I've got a couple of queries but I'll send them via PM so you don't have to keep checking back here.
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OMG this tool is so fkn awesome!!!
I thought a bit about it and wanted to suggest more things like a scouting drone or building stuff in order like a fast stalker first and then transitioning into void rays....BUT it's already there!!!!
Still I think I found a small problem (which hopefully hasn't been mentioned before - it is very hard to read this whole thread as many postings are dealing with specific stuff).
The idea is to hide information as long as possible, so let's say I want my first stalker to clean my base, before I reveal my tech tree. This means the stalker must be there before I build my stargate for instance. It shows when running the following simulation.
settings:
- scout at 11
1st waypoint:
- constant probes
- stalker (1)
2nd waypoint:
- constant probes
- void ray (3)
result:
9 Pylon
11 Chrono Nexus
13 Gateway
15 Assimilator
15 Pylon
16 Assimilator
17 Cybernetics Core
17 Chrono Nexus
17 Move Probe To Gas
17 Move Probe To Gas
17 Move Probe To Gas
18 Move Probe To Gas
18 Move Probe To Gas
18 Move Probe To Gas
20 Stargate
22 Pylon
22 Stalker
26 Chrono Stargate
26 Void Ray
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
4:52.65: 92M 49G 80E 29/ 34S
Income: 672M 215G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Assimilator 3 Pylon 1 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core 1 Stargate
Units: 23 Probe 1 Stalker
Upgrades:
30 Pylon
30 Chrono Stargate
31 Chrono Stargate
31 Void Ray
35 Chrono Stargate
37 Chrono Stargate
37 Void Ray
40 Move Probe To Gas
41 Chrono Stargate
Waypoint 2 satisfied:
6:44.65: 585M 159G 18E 42/ 42S
Income: 832M 228G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Assimilator 4 Pylon 1 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core 1 Stargate
Units: 30 Probe 1 Stalker 3 Void Ray
Upgrades:
While this is certainly the fastest build to archieve the result in that order, it doesn't seem to be in line with my original waypoints as my waypoint 1 did not include a stargate. An option to "disconnect" waypoints in a way that waypoint 2 simply starts with the amount of workers and minerals left from waypoint 1 would be great.
Besides that, I have a question which are rather trivial, but I want to be sure nevertheless:
Let's say I pull a SCV from the mineral line to build a factory, does the building time get discounted from the very same SCV working in the mineral line? The reason I am asking is because I get messages like "move SCV to gas" or "move SCV to minerals", but never after building a structure, so it is either self-explanatory or not taken into consideration.
Oh yeah btw, does it have YABOT output already? I used the search function on this, but couldn't get a definite answer.
Last but not least, you need a website for the project with a big donation button. I am sure that tons of people want to donate for this, because it is such a cool tool.
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On December 21 2010 17:10 Selias wrote:
While this is certainly the fastest build to archieve the result in that order, it doesn't seem to be in line with my original waypoints as my waypoint 1 did not include a stargate. An option to "disconnect" waypoints in a way that waypoint 2 simply starts with the amount of workers and minerals left from waypoint 1 would be great.
What I plan to do is have a 'maximum' setting for each building (and things like workers). This way you could set your first waypoint to have a maximum of 0 stargates.
Besides that, I have a question which are rather trivial, but I want to be sure nevertheless:
Let's say I pull a SCV from the mineral line to build a factory, does the building time get discounted from the very same SCV working in the mineral line? The reason I am asking is because I get messages like "move SCV to gas" or "move SCV to minerals", but never after building a structure, so it is either self-explanatory or not taken into consideration.
If you're asking whether the income is reduced due to the SCV being used for building, then yes, it is. It pulls a worker from the mineral line for the building's duration plus 10s of travelling time.
Oh yeah btw, does it have YABOT output already? I used the search function on this, but couldn't get a definite answer.
No, it doesn't. Main problem I've got is that I haven't been able to find a resource that actually tells me the YABOT format so I can implement it. I do know a number of tools that output to YABOT format, so I assume they talked to the creator. I tried contacting him a while ago, but didn't get a response. I might just have to reverse engineer what the other tools have done.
Last but not least, you need a website for the project with a big donation button. I am sure that tons of people want to donate for this, because it is such a cool tool.
There actually is a donate button on the google code page, although I realise it's a bit hidden there. I need to add a link in the app itself.
Incidentally, here's the link for anyone wanting to donate
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8FW7A9LJSK858
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Nice work. Others may have reported this, but i think i've found a bug, as it wants 4 workers on my gas. (at 18 food, alrdy 6 in gas)
All input is on default values except for carrier, which is set to 1.
9 Pylon
9 Gateway
10 Chrono Nexus
11 Chrono Nexus
12 Assimilator
13 Assimilator
13 Cybernetics Core
13 Move Probe To Gas
13 Move Probe To Gas
13 Move Probe To Gas
14 Chrono Nexus
14 Move Probe To Gas
14 Move Probe To Gas
14 Move Probe To Gas
15 Stargate
16 Chrono Nexus
18 Move Probe To Gas
18 Fleet Beacon
18 Pylon
18 Carrier
24 Chrono Stargate
24 Move Probe To Minerals
25 Chrono Stargate
26 Chrono Stargate
26 Chrono Stargate
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
6:27.86: 674M 287G 17E 26/ 26S
Income: 594M 215G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Assimilator 2 Pylon 1 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core 1 Stargate 1 Fleet Beacon
Units: 20 Probe 1 Carrier
Upgrades:
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On December 23 2010 09:17 Necuno wrote:
Nice work. Others may have reported this, but i think i've found a bug, as it wants 4 workers on my gas. (at 18 food, alrdy 6 in gas)
Yes, others have reported this, but it's not a bug. Some geysers need 4 workers for full saturation. My code assumes there's 1 close geyser (needing 3), 1 far away (needing 4).
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This is so epic. Made a Ghost rush build soo much faster :O
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On December 21 2010 17:50 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 17:10 Selias wrote:
While this is certainly the fastest build to archieve the result in that order, it doesn't seem to be in line with my original waypoints as my waypoint 1 did not include a stargate. An option to "disconnect" waypoints in a way that waypoint 2 simply starts with the amount of workers and minerals left from waypoint 1 would be great. What I plan to do is have a 'maximum' setting for each building (and things like workers). This way you could set your first waypoint to have a maximum of 0 stargates.
Just a quick question on that, but would the program interpret '0 stargates' as meaning 0 finished stargates? It seems to me that the purpose of such an option would be to not start the building until you have a unit out to deny scouting, so it'd be pointless to have your waypoints set up as, say..
W1: Stalker by 4 mins, 0 stargates
W2: 3 Void Rays by 15 mins.
... if the stalker popped out at 3:50, with the stargate finishing at 4:10, having been building for what? 30 seconds before the scout denial popped out, with the program interpreting it as simply 0 stargates until that point.
Of course, we can usually manually tinker with the builds to delay the buildings by a little bit anyway, but the optimal situation would be to not have to (like the lazy asses that we are :p).
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Is there a way to imput an opening for it to start with?
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Not sure if this is a bug or the algorithm takes a while to solve it.
Very simple setup actually. I want to do a 3 rax push with 2 reactors and back it up with medivacs later on. I even left out stim to make it easier.
WP1: constant SCVs, 12 marines, 3 marauders
WP2: constant SCVs, 24 marines, 6 marauders, 2 medivacs
Result after like 3 minutes:
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
14 Marine
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Orbital Command
15 Marine
16 Barracks Tech Lab
16 Marine
18 Calldown Extra Supplies
18 Marauder
20 Move SCV To Minerals
21 Marine
22 Marauder
24 Supply Depot
25 Marine
27 Move SCV To Gas
27 Marauder
29 Marine
31 Barracks (Naked)
32 Marine
Waypoint 1 failed:
4:59.77: 49M 39G 54E 33/ 35S
Income: 672M 76G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Tech Lab
Units: 19 SCV 6 Marine 3 Marauder
Research:
34 Marine
35 Calldown Extra Supplies
35 Marine
38 Marine
39 Marine
40 Marine
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
6:14.64: 533M 134G 46E 42/ 43S
Income: 820M 76G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 3 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Tech Lab
Units: 23 SCV 12 Marine 3 Marauder
Research:
Waypoint 2 failed:
6:19.17: 594M 139G 49E 42/ 43S
Income: 832M 76G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 3 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Tech Lab
Units: 24 SCV 12 Marine 3 Marauder
Research:
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EPT
