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In this BO (fastest cloak banshee), shouldn't the orbital command be built before the next 4 SCV ?
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:44.10: 100M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
0:59.34: 75M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build Refinery
1:28.65: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
1:29.34: 3M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
1:29.34: 3M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
1:41.23: 50M 13G 0E 9/ 19S - Build SCV
1:41.23: 0M 13G 0E 10/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:28.65: 192M 101G 0E 10/ 19S - Build Factory (Naked)
2:31.47: 50M 7G 0E 10/ 19S - Build SCV
2:48.47: 70M 39G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
3:05.47: 103M 71G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
3:28.65: 185M 115G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Starport (Naked)
3:36.09: 75M 29G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Refinery
3:45.25: 50M 47G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
4:02.25: 95M 79G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:18.65: 121M 132G 0E 15/ 19S - Build Starport Tech Lab
4:18.65: 71M 107G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:43.65: 206M 201G 0E 15/ 19S - Research Cloaking Field
4:43.65: 6M 1G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
4:43.65: 6M 1G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
4:50.22: 50M 21G 0E 15/ 19S - Build SCV
5:11.14: 150M 84G 0E 16/ 19S - Build Orbital Command
5:11.14: 0M 84G 0E 16/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
5:32.27: 150M 159G 0E 16/ 19S - Build Banshee
5:46.14: 98M 108G 50E 19/ 19S - Calldown MULE
edit 1:Also, a good improvement would be to implement the addons swap, thanks a lot for this awesome stuff :^p
edit 2 : There's a problem with battlecruisers, the fusion core is after the bc
BO(single BC):
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:44.10: 100M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
0:59.34: 75M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build Refinery
1:28.65: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
1:29.34: 3M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
1:29.34: 3M 0G 0E 9/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
1:41.23: 50M 13G 0E 9/ 19S - Build SCV
1:41.23: 0M 13G 0E 10/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:28.65: 192M 101G 0E 10/ 19S - Build Factory (Naked)
2:31.47: 50M 7G 0E 10/ 19S - Build SCV
2:48.47: 70M 39G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
3:05.47: 103M 71G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
3:28.65: 185M 115G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Starport (Naked)
3:36.09: 75M 29G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Refinery
3:45.25: 50M 47G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
4:02.25: 95M 79G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:02.25: 45M 79G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:18.65: 121M 132G 0E 15/ 19S - Build Starport Tech Lab
4:18.65: 71M 107G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
4:43.65: 206M 201G 0E 15/ 19S - Research Cloaking Field
4:43.65: 6M 1G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
4:43.65: 6M 1G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
4:50.22: 50M 21G 0E 15/ 19S - Build SCV
5:11.14: 150M 84G 0E 16/ 19S - Build Orbital Command
5:11.14: 0M 84G 0E 16/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
5:32.27: 150M 159G 0E 16/ 19S - Build Banshee
5:46.14: 98M 108G 50E 19/ 19S - Calldown MULE
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And the Ghost Academy after the Ghost  (In the first BO)
On December 04 2010 00:37 Ncinerate wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 12:19 [p]Drake wrote:
I don't see an option have a nuke as a target. Am I blind? I must know the fastest nuke rush!!! Well, fiddling with the calculator... This: + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.44: 75M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build Refinery
0:31.61: 50M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:48.61: 73M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:49.44: 27M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Move SCV To Gas
0:49.44: 27M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Move SCV To Gas
0:49.44: 27M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Move SCV To Gas
1:05.61: 84M 27G 0E 9/ 11S - Build SCV
1:22.61: 105M 59G 0E 10/ 11S - Build SCV
1:31.90: 100M 77G 0E 11/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
2:01.90: 139M 134G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
2:13.38: 150M 156G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
3:13.38: 328M 270G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Factory (Naked)
3:13.38: 178M 170G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
3:38.38: 261M 192G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Ghost
3:38.38: 111M 42G 0E 14/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
3:44.70: 150M 50G 0E 14/ 19S - Build Ghost Academy
3:44.70: 0M 0G 0E 14/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
3:55.46: 50M 19G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV Gets you a ghost, factory, and academy at 4:24, you should have 100/100 for a nuke at 4:30ish, and a nuke takes 60 in-game seconds to build if I remember correctly. So, fastest nuke should happen around 5:30. Of course, in real-game time that's closer to 5:40-5:45, and that's without cloak. If you wanted cloak: + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.00: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.03: 100M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
1:10.00: 91M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build SCV
1:27.00: 147M 0G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
1:34.04: 150M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
1:45.14: 75M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Refinery
1:56.00: 75M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build Refinery
2:04.11: 50M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
2:15.14: 70M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:15.14: 70M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:15.14: 70M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:15.14: 70M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:15.14: 70M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:36.99: 163M 50G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Ghost Academy
2:36.99: 13M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:36.99: 13M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
3:16.99: 155M 150G 0E 13/ 19S - Research Personal Cloaking
3:16.99: 5M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Move SCV To Minerals
3:27.09: 50M 37G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
3:37.19: 50M 73G 0E 14/ 19S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
4:05.01: 150M 148G 0E 14/ 19S - Build Factory (Naked)
4:35.97: 150M 158G 0E 14/ 19S - Build Ghost
4:46.07: 50M 45G 0E 16/ 19S - Build SCV
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
5:16.99: 166M 155G 0E 17/ 19S
Income: 381M 215G
Buildings: 1 Command Center 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 1 Tech Lab
Units: 15 SCV 1 Ghost
Research: Personal Cloaking Add 60 seconds from about 5:00 when you have 100/100 for a nuke, so, nuke rush with cloak at 6 minutes. That's basically as fast as it's going to possibly happen and is totally unpractical in a real game due to complete lack of defenses.
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Both of those should be fixed in v7.3 - please try it out and let me know.
Also, as for the orbital command, I think the trouble is that at that point you've got so few SCVs that you need them mining to get the income earlier. It takes about 90s to get back the cost of the OC from the first MULE, not to mention the fewer SCVs you've made, and I think this delays the starport & refinery a bit making the build order longer. If you force the OC by 3:30 for instance, then you'll notice the build takes 6:36 as opposed to 6:33 (for fastest banshee with cloak).
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On December 03 2010 06:32 CarbonTwelve wrote:
income rates.
They say the simplest solution is the best, right? Well I was watching replays and thinking, why not just put various amounts of workers on various mineral fields/patches, and then watch the replay? It tells you income, on a per-minute basis I believe. Obviously the per-second math is easy from there. That's how I figured a mule is worth 6 scvs (they both show 240). But I have a point:
So if the goal is to maximize income as early as possible, OC should come after 6 scvs. But since you need a SD and a rax first, it's the most cost efficient to acquire the OC asap without cutting SCVs. What I have come up with is better than anything the optimizers find, and I want to use it as the basis for a lot of orders, but I can't because there aren't enough waypoints.
Can you change the waypoints so we start with just one and a button to add subsequent ones? Or even better (in addition to the button, not instead), let us manually input certain steps, especially the first steps? I generally want to customize the very beginning, and then I tend to only use the optimizer for the first 7 minutes tops. I would like to force it to start by getting the OC like this:
#1. 4 scvs
#2. 1 sd
#3. 2 scvs
#4. 1 rax
#5. 3 scvs
#6. 1 oc
#7. the actual goal
(after step five, and before step 6, you acquire 300 minerals, so you can spend 150 on whatever you want after step 5 but before starting the oc)
About to try the 7.3 pretty soon.
EDIT: ya, i couldn't get it to achieve that order using only the provided amount of waypoints, and it doesn't seem like it's forced to accomplish the waypoint goals in order either...
EDIT 2: It would be good to let us manually input our own custom intro, instead of forcing it via waypoints, so the optimizer doesnt even have to spend a micro second trying to "find" our intro. It can just start from it and go forward.
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On December 05 2010 10:47 calculator wrote:
...That's how I figured a mule is worth 6 scvs (they both show 240)...
Thing is, the Mule doesn't produce 240 a minute, It works out to either 160 or 180 a minute, depending on how far the mineral block is away.
Mules are worth approximately 4 scvs, see this article : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE
Edit : To start with that intro just make the first waypoint as 200 seconds in (the 200 seconds part is important or it might do it out of order), for 15 scvs and a orbital command and it will have that exact build order to start, then just work from there.
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I dunno. I just did another quick test with very mixed results, and I wouldn't trust liquipedias figures. Right now I'd say MULEs are probably worth about 5 scvs. Either way, that means orbital is still worth the most when acquired as early after the start as possible, which i think my order does without cutting scvs.
As far as making the optimizer start with that, I don't want it to have to figure out how to achieve a build order start that I already know. I should just be able to input what it has to begin with before it starts further calculations on future steps only. And I wanted to use the extra 150 to start a second barracks before the OC starts. Is there a way to do that? To make it go in this order precisely before running optimizations on subsequent steps only? What ever I do I can't get it to achieve that, not even with the 200 second limitation; but my point is that it shouldn't have to. We should just be able to input the order that all tests start with.
#1. 4 scvs
#2. 1 sd
#3. 2 scvs
#4. 1 rax
#5. 3 scvs
#6. 1 rax
#7. 1 oc
#8. 6 marines 2 marauders or whatever
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Hi calculator,
I can add a feature to do what you want, ie, specify a starting build order that the system just adds to. I'm not sure when it'll happen, but I'll try to do it sometime soon. Still, I don't think you should dismiss what the optimiser comes up with - I'm fairly certain that what it's giving you is indeed the fastest way to achieve what you put in as the target.
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On December 05 2010 10:47 calculator wrote:They say the simplest solution is the best, right? Well I was watching replays and thinking, why not just put various amounts of workers on various mineral fields/patches, and then watch the replay? It tells you income, on a per-minute basis I believe. Obviously the per-second math is easy from there. That's how I figured a mule is worth 6 scvs (they both show 240). But I have a point: So if the goal is to maximize income as early as possible, OC should come after 6 scvs. But since you need a SD and a rax first, it's the most cost efficient to acquire the OC asap without cutting SCVs. What I have come up with is better than anything the optimizers find, and I want to use it as the basis for a lot of orders, but I can't because there aren't enough waypoints. Can you change the waypoints so we start with just one and a button to add subsequent ones? Or even better (in addition to the button, not instead), let us manually input certain steps, especially the first steps? I generally want to customize the very beginning, and then I tend to only use the optimizer for the first 7 minutes tops. I would like to force it to start by getting the OC like this: #1. 4 scvs #2. 1 sd #3. 2 scvs #4. 1 rax #5. 3 scvs #6. 1 oc #7. the actual goal (after step five, and before step 6, you acquire 300 minerals, so you can spend 150 on whatever you want after step 5 but before starting the oc) About to try the 7.3 pretty soon. EDIT: ya, i couldn't get it to achieve that order using only the provided amount of waypoints, and it doesn't seem like it's forced to accomplish the waypoint goals in order either... EDIT 2: It would be good to let us manually input our own custom intro, instead of forcing it via waypoints, so the optimizer doesnt even have to spend a micro second trying to "find" our intro. It can just start from it and go forward.
Have you tried to run the programm for more than 10 minutes? Most BOs i get are 15 OC or something in that range.
But to shorten the calculation time the 15 OC is definitely something thats need to be there as standart option.
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is there an inbuilt function so that it can only use a certain percentage of CPU power? My cpu is getting too hot!
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First of all, thank you CarbonTwelve AND Lolimar for your awesome work. I'm actively using those tools to find BOs that fit my style.
Now this...
On December 05 2010 21:13 Kambo_Rambo wrote:
is there an inbuilt function so that it can only use a certain percentage of CPU power? My cpu is getting too hot! would be really appreciated. Not only does not everyone own a good PC but even when they do, there's just too much strain on the CPUs at some point in time. If that is possible (without making the task too complicated for you of course), that would be really appreciated.
Now a small glitch report...
As for something I noticed on version 7.3: Nitro Packs Didn't require the factory, which I think they do in-game. Did a real quick build research on how to get 10 reapers w/ nitro packs the fastest way possible.
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.00: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.03: 100M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
1:10.00: 91M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build SCV
1:15.67: 75M 0G 0E 11/ 11S - Build Refinery
1:27.00: 62M 0G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
1:44.00: 131M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
1:52.56: 150M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
2:01.00: 62M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
2:18.00: 157M 0G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV
2:18.00: 107M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:18.00: 107M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:35.00: 239M 19G 0E 15/ 19S - Build SCV
2:35.00: 189M 19G 0E 16/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:52.00: 321M 50G 0E 16/ 19S - Build SCV
2:52.00: 271M 50G 0E 17/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
3:09.00: 258M 82G 0E 17/ 19S - Build SCV
3:09.00: 208M 82G 0E 18/ 19S - Build Supply Depot
3:26.00: 249M 115G 0E 18/ 19S - Build SCV
3:26.00: 199M 115G 0E 19/ 19S - Build Refinery
3:26.00: 124M 115G 0E 19/ 19S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
3:43.00: 217M 122G 0E 19/ 27S - Build SCV
3:52.00: 254M 139G 0E 20/ 27S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
3:52.00: 204M 114G 0E 20/ 27S - Build Reaper
3:52.00: 154M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Build Barracks (Naked)
3:52.00: 4M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
3:52.00: 4M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:00.00: 67M 84G 0E 21/ 27S - Build SCV
4:17.00: 184M 135G 0E 22/ 27S - Build Reaper
4:17.00: 134M 85G 0E 23/ 27S - Build SCV
4:17.00: 84M 85G 0E 24/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:34.00: 251M 145G 0E 24/ 27S - Build SCV
4:37.00: 231M 156G 0E 25/ 27S - Build Reaper
4:37.00: 181M 106G 0E 26/ 27S - Build Supply Depot
4:44.29: 150M 132G 0E 26/ 27S - Build Barracks (Naked)
4:44.29: 0M 132G 0E 26/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:51.00: 54M 157G 0E 26/ 27S - Build SCV
4:56.12: 50M 176G 0E 27/ 27S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
5:08.00: 117M 196G 0E 27/ 35S - Build SCV
5:08.00: 67M 196G 0E 28/ 35S - Move SCV To Minerals
5:08.00: 67M 196G 0E 28/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:11.17: 50M 158G 0E 29/ 35S - Research Nitro Packs
5:21.12: 117M 143G 0E 29/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:22.00: 77M 96G 0E 30/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:22.00: 27M 46G 0E 31/ 35S - Move SCV To Gas
5:25.00: 61M 57G 0E 31/ 35S - Build SCV
5:32.70: 100M 87G 0E 32/ 35S - Build Supply Depot
5:42.00: 101M 122G 0E 32/ 35S - Build SCV
5:44.29: 77M 131G 0E 33/ 35S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
5:53.00: 131M 139G 0E 33/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:59.00: 155M 112G 0E 34/ 35S - Build SCV
6:06.12: 196M 139G 0E 35/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:07.00: 157M 92G 0E 36/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:09.29: 138M 51G 0E 37/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:16.00: 178M 26G 0E 38/ 43S - Build Orbital Command
6:51.00: 506M 159G 50E 38/ 43S - Build SCV
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
6:54.29: 501M 172G 52E 39/ 43S
Income: 820M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 4 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 4 Tech Lab
Units: 28 SCV 10 Reaper
Research: Nitro Packs
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I originally had this as a post about improving the options for how to handle moving workers to gas. I noticed afterwards that you had it in your gcode issue list so you can disregard that.
-----------------------------------------------
While looking at your issues list I realized something. There is an item on that list about output methods and at that moment I realized a way this could really take another wonderful step. Is there a way you can talk to the developer of SC2gears and see if they would enable a way to "import" your "output" and use their graphs to analyze the build. This way you can see how much downtime and uptime your barracks would be doing, etc. It would be a fantastic way of improving BOTH of your programs and I suspect that a small confirmation between the two of you would be all that's neccessary to compare your output with his input.
This way if there are major features that exist already in sc2gears, you won't have to try to perfect them in your own software. This way you can essentially pull forward with their incredible interface. Ultimately if they like the idea it would take more work for them to integrate as they'd have to write the code to parse your output. All you'd need to do is confirm if your output is adequate for them.
Just a random thought.
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On December 05 2010 17:50 CarbonTwelve wrote:
Still, I don't think you should dismiss what the optimiser comes up with - I'm fairly certain that what it's giving you is indeed the fastest way to achieve what you put in as the target.
I always put my foot in my mouth but this time I think I can safely say it's wrong. It does come up with a very close build however, one that puts the second rax before the 15th scv, which is wrong for some pretty self-explanatory reasons (probably income and travel time calculations).
On December 05 2010 19:28 HTX wrote:
Have you tried to run the programm for more than 10 minutes? Most BOs i get are 15 OC or something in that range.
Ya it gets the 15 OC but in the wrong order. But you're missing the point: it shouldn't have to waste time trying to find an intro that I should just be able to input as a preset default. It finds the order it thinks is the fastest, but I already know the proper order that is actually fastest.
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On December 06 2010 02:26 calculator wrote:
It does come up with a very close build however, one that puts the second rax before the 15th scv, which is wrong for some pretty self-explanatory reasons (probably income and travel time calculations).
Actually it's pretty doable to start the second rax before the 15th scv, without any delays. I just tried it in a game and it worked fine. It might take a tiny little bit of scv micromanagement but it's not hard. I'd say the resource collection and travel times seem pretty spot-on. This is the fastest possible time after all, not taking into account whatever can go wrong.
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On December 05 2010 21:13 Kambo_Rambo wrote:
is there an inbuilt function so that it can only use a certain percentage of CPU power? My cpu is getting too hot!
I can look into it, although I'm not sure how easy it will be to achieve. Restricting CPU usage across multiple threads is actually pretty complicated. One thing you could do though, depending on your OS version and assuming you've got a multi core CPU, is go into the task manager (right click on the task bar then 'Start Task Manager'), go into Processes tab, then right click on the SCBuildOrderGUI process and 'Set Affinity'. Have only one or two of the CPUs checked and then the app will be restricted to only those cores, and that will reduce the total CPU usage. I know you can do this in Windows 7, Server 2003 and Server 2008, so I assume Windows XP and above should be able to do it.
On December 05 2010 23:11 TheDeli wrote:Now a small glitch report...As for something I noticed on version 7.3: Nitro Packs Didn't require the factory, which I think they do in-game. Did a real quick build research on how to get 10 reapers w/ nitro packs the fastest way possible. + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.00: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.03: 100M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
1:10.00: 91M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build SCV
1:15.67: 75M 0G 0E 11/ 11S - Build Refinery
1:27.00: 62M 0G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
1:44.00: 131M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
1:52.56: 150M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
2:01.00: 62M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
2:18.00: 157M 0G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV
2:18.00: 107M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:18.00: 107M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:35.00: 239M 19G 0E 15/ 19S - Build SCV
2:35.00: 189M 19G 0E 16/ 19S - Move SCV To Gas
2:52.00: 321M 50G 0E 16/ 19S - Build SCV
2:52.00: 271M 50G 0E 17/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
3:09.00: 258M 82G 0E 17/ 19S - Build SCV
3:09.00: 208M 82G 0E 18/ 19S - Build Supply Depot
3:26.00: 249M 115G 0E 18/ 19S - Build SCV
3:26.00: 199M 115G 0E 19/ 19S - Build Refinery
3:26.00: 124M 115G 0E 19/ 19S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
3:43.00: 217M 122G 0E 19/ 27S - Build SCV
3:52.00: 254M 139G 0E 20/ 27S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
3:52.00: 204M 114G 0E 20/ 27S - Build Reaper
3:52.00: 154M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Build Barracks (Naked)
3:52.00: 4M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
3:52.00: 4M 64G 0E 21/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:00.00: 67M 84G 0E 21/ 27S - Build SCV
4:17.00: 184M 135G 0E 22/ 27S - Build Reaper
4:17.00: 134M 85G 0E 23/ 27S - Build SCV
4:17.00: 84M 85G 0E 24/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:34.00: 251M 145G 0E 24/ 27S - Build SCV
4:37.00: 231M 156G 0E 25/ 27S - Build Reaper
4:37.00: 181M 106G 0E 26/ 27S - Build Supply Depot
4:44.29: 150M 132G 0E 26/ 27S - Build Barracks (Naked)
4:44.29: 0M 132G 0E 26/ 27S - Move SCV To Gas
4:51.00: 54M 157G 0E 26/ 27S - Build SCV
4:56.12: 50M 176G 0E 27/ 27S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
5:08.00: 117M 196G 0E 27/ 35S - Build SCV
5:08.00: 67M 196G 0E 28/ 35S - Move SCV To Minerals
5:08.00: 67M 196G 0E 28/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:11.17: 50M 158G 0E 29/ 35S - Research Nitro Packs
5:21.12: 117M 143G 0E 29/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:22.00: 77M 96G 0E 30/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:22.00: 27M 46G 0E 31/ 35S - Move SCV To Gas
5:25.00: 61M 57G 0E 31/ 35S - Build SCV
5:32.70: 100M 87G 0E 32/ 35S - Build Supply Depot
5:42.00: 101M 122G 0E 32/ 35S - Build SCV
5:44.29: 77M 131G 0E 33/ 35S - Build Barracks Tech Lab
5:53.00: 131M 139G 0E 33/ 35S - Build Reaper
5:59.00: 155M 112G 0E 34/ 35S - Build SCV
6:06.12: 196M 139G 0E 35/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:07.00: 157M 92G 0E 36/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:09.29: 138M 51G 0E 37/ 43S - Build Reaper
6:16.00: 178M 26G 0E 38/ 43S - Build Orbital Command
6:51.00: 506M 159G 50E 38/ 43S - Build SCV
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
6:54.29: 501M 172G 52E 39/ 43S
Income: 820M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 4 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 4 Tech Lab
Units: 28 SCV 10 Reaper
Research: Nitro Packs
Weird. I definitely made the change, and it certainly works when running my local version, but somehow it seems it didn't make it into the build for v7.3. Maybe I forgot to recompile after making that last change :/ Either way, it'll be fixed in the next version 
On December 06 2010 01:32 LegacyObserver wrote:
While looking at your issues list I realized something. There is an item on that list about output methods and at that moment I realized a way this could really take another wonderful step. Is there a way you can talk to the developer of SC2gears and see if they would enable a way to "import" your "output" and use their graphs to analyze the build. This way you can see how much downtime and uptime your barracks would be doing, etc. It would be a fantastic way of improving BOTH of your programs and I suspect that a small confirmation between the two of you would be all that's neccessary to compare your output with his input.
This way if there are major features that exist already in sc2gears, you won't have to try to perfect them in your own software. This way you can essentially pull forward with their incredible interface. Ultimately if they like the idea it would take more work for them to integrate as they'd have to write the code to parse your output. All you'd need to do is confirm if your output is adequate for them.
Just a random thought.
I'm working on the output options now, so I'll certainly look into SC2Gears and see if I can have their format as an option as well.
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On December 06 2010 05:53 Durikkan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 02:26 calculator wrote:
It does come up with a very close build however, one that puts the second rax before the 15th scv, which is wrong for some pretty self-explanatory reasons (probably income and travel time calculations).
Actually it's pretty doable to start the second rax before the 15th scv, without any delays. I just tried it in a game and it worked fine. It might take a tiny little bit of scv micromanagement but it's not hard. I'd say the resource collection and travel times seem pretty spot-on. This is the fastest possible time after all, not taking into account whatever can go wrong.
The second rax before the 15th scv doesn't make the orbital come any sooner, though. And I'm not sure what you mean by "pretty doable". It requires a perfect split, and flawless microing of scvs. And I still don't think it's possible every time from every starting position on every map. So the risk and perfection required aren't worth the potential few-seconds-earlier-second-rax, to me. If you mess up even a little bit it puts out the 15th scv late which delays the orbital, an unnecessary risk for an unnecessary potential gain.
The 15th scv > rax2 > oc is 100% achievable every time, mis-microing and fucking up the whole intro isn't a threat, and it doesn't make the orbital any later than rax2 > 15th scv > oc.
Again, the point is that one shouldn't have to wrestle with the optimizer. Instead of stressing over ways to force it into a certain start, it would be better to allow the user to input his own order that the optimizer can then build on top of.
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I'm working on the output options now, so I'll certainly look into SC2Gears and see if I can have their format as an option as well. They do pure replay analysis. So it would be one of those "communicate to them to see if they'd be interested" kinda things. That way if they needed a specific output for their own program (which they'll have to modify to allow this) then you can just understand what they'd need. I'm going to shoot a request in their thread tonight about it as they'll do the lion's share of the work.
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On December 06 2010 09:17 LegacyObserver wrote:Show nested quote +I'm working on the output options now, so I'll certainly look into SC2Gears and see if I can have their format as an option as well. They do pure replay analysis. So it would be one of those "communicate to them to see if they'd be interested" kinda things. That way if they needed a specific output for their own program (which they'll have to modify to allow this) then you can just understand what they'd need. I'm going to shoot a request in their thread tonight about it as they'll do the lion's share of the work.
As I see. I knew it did replay analysis, but wasn't sure of whatever other features they had. If they don't have support for specifying build orders atm (or are already planning to do) then I doubt it'll be something they'll add just for the sake of it. Feel free to ask though, and if they do then we can organise a format for both of us to use.
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On December 06 2010 02:26 calculator wrote:
Ya it gets the 15 OC but in the wrong order. But you're missing the point: it shouldn't have to waste time trying to find an intro that I should just be able to input as a preset default. It finds the order it thinks is the fastest, but I already know the proper order that is actually fastest.
I won't go into whether it'll be the fastest/most optimal etc but for me there are just some things I won't do (I play Toss) so if it says I need a 6 pylon 6 gateway for my way point requirements I'll just adjust those requirements down until a more logical start ends up occurring.
From letting the Optimiser run for several hours its usually coming up with a 9 pylon start but there are a lot of 6 Pylon 6 Gateway starts that all appear first and get rejected at one point or another (and logically any Toss will tell you isn't a good opening to go with either).
I wouldn't mind be able to specify things like 9 Pylon as a default on the Toss side of things (I don't see BO from players that usually have a pylon any earlier occasionally there is the odd old 8 pylon setup). Short of some form of cheese but proxies/cannons typically are still placing that pylon down at the 8/9 supply.
I guess I am asking for an option of don't build before # supply
That being said I manage quite well with the current setup.
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There are a lot of posts in this thread so sorry if I missed the answer to my question but i cannot figure out how to do this or if it is possible. Say I knew i wanted to push out with 2 dt and a warp prism at 7:30 game time, but i also want to maximize my production of stalkers that i can get out but still have 2 dt and 1 warp prism at 7:30. Is there any way to do this without me playing around with how many zealots + stalkers to build as well.
If you cannot do this it would seem like an extremely useful function but probably hard to program and take longer to calculate. A way maybe to be able to do this is unit ratios.
Say I want my 2 dt and 1 warp prism and a ratio of 3 stalkers to 1 zealot. Then it figures out what the most stalkers + zealots it can make at that ratio while still fulfilling my requirement of 2dt and 1 warp prism.
Edited for bous content
On December 04 2010 20:30 CarbonTwelve wrote:
Just release version 7.3. Just a few minor fixes for Terran and implemented scouting workers & constant SCVs.
Changelog:
Constant SCVs implemented
Constant Probes reverted to idle nexus penalty
Scouting worker implemented for Zerg & Terran (Protoss already implemented)
Battlecruiser requirement fix
Ghost requirement fix
Nitro Packs requirement fix
Supply Depot requirement fix
I havnt looked at all the fixes yet, but it seems like you didn't recompile after fixing some of them ( constant probes is still constant probes for me) unless i am the changlog wrong.
And the implementation with sc2gears seems like a really great idea. Since SC2Gears can share and import replays from around the world now. A really great tool and perhaps the easiest way to use both tools together was if you could compare the builds recorded side by side in terms of units/buildings/upgrades. That way you can have a better idea how your build will stack up against any opening your opponent might do.
Take in mind i know very little (nothing) about programming. If they have some kind of standard for importing builds into program or you could simulate a replay file that just contains the orders necessary for the build. In SC2 Gears you would be able to view your build against your favorite pro's. For PvP I have included a picture of Ddoro's build that he beat me down with(and me a poor little platinum) when in played him in a tourney.
(busy writing a paper, but just being able to compare in gear's builds/tech tab.)
If this is possible, you might be able to tell if your build will hold off like the korean 4 warpgate he demolished me with.
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awesome tool, thx a lot for it. but some questions: what does the target field mean? game time in seconds? and where can we control how many tries the algorithm performs?
also, is there a way to include expansions? (probably not, but would be super cool^^)
and could u maybe explain what the effect of the mutation rate is? ie, what are the pros and cons of for example increasing it from the default 0.3 to 0.5?
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EPT
