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MLG extended Series Poll - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 72 Next
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
June 05 2011 22:05 GMT
#401
Let's look at this from a practical standpoint: has there ever been a situation where the "inferior" player won because he got lucky with an earlier series, then barely squeaked by in the later extended series 4-3? If there hasn't, then I'm indifferent. From Incontrol/TLO, Naniwa/Kiwikaki, Thorzain/Select, MC/Thorzain, MC/Idra...there are no upsets here - the players who should have won, did win. I suppose my position is as such because I don't care about underdogs winning - as long as the better player wins, I'm fine.
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
June 05 2011 22:18 GMT
#402
On June 06 2011 07:05 Qaatar wrote:
Let's look at this from a practical standpoint: has there ever been a situation where the "inferior" player won because he got lucky with an earlier series, then barely squeaked by in the later extended series 4-3? If there hasn't, then I'm indifferent. From Incontrol/TLO, Naniwa/Kiwikaki, Thorzain/Select, MC/Thorzain, MC/Idra...there are no upsets here - the players who should have won, did win. I suppose my position is as such because I don't care about underdogs winning - as long as the better player wins, I'm fine.


One of the advantages of extended series is that the superior player is more likely to go through. This makes sense, since the better player goes through in a best of 7 more often than a best of 3.
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
June 05 2011 22:20 GMT
#403
People dislike this because looks arbitrary, some players play under different rules because of reasons beyond their control. It'll just take some time to get used.
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
June 05 2011 22:22 GMT
#404
On June 06 2011 07:20 Soap wrote:
People dislike this because looks arbitrary, some players play under different rules because of reasons beyond their control. It'll just take some time to get used.


totally agree!
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
June 05 2011 22:23 GMT
#405
I like it actually, but I understand why it annoys people as it makes it much harder for the underdawg.
Zechs
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom321 Posts
June 05 2011 23:36 GMT
#406
MLG's entire format seems like it's designed to give advantages to the guy who won last time. The bracket system is just flat-out bizarre, making it near impossible for someone to come out of the open bracket and extended series is so contrived it's just stupid.
Esports and stuff: zechleton.tumblr.com
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
June 05 2011 23:41 GMT
#407
On June 06 2011 08:36 Zechs wrote:
MLG's entire format seems like it's designed to give advantages to the guy who won last time. The bracket system is just flat-out bizarre, making it near impossible for someone to come out of the open bracket and extended series is so contrived it's just stupid.


it was designed to keep the halo players like tsquared on top forever, can't give people 100,000 dollar contracts, and then put there face on dr.pepper bottles and then tell dr pepper tsquared hasn't qualified to be on tv this tournament sorry he won't be getting any air time.

However, it's a fair system, everyone goes by the same rules, and it's not the worst thing that has ever happened ever like some people seem to think.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
June 05 2011 23:43 GMT
#408
On June 06 2011 07:18 how2TL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2011 07:05 Qaatar wrote:
Let's look at this from a practical standpoint: has there ever been a situation where the "inferior" player won because he got lucky with an earlier series, then barely squeaked by in the later extended series 4-3? If there hasn't, then I'm indifferent. From Incontrol/TLO, Naniwa/Kiwikaki, Thorzain/Select, MC/Thorzain, MC/Idra...there are no upsets here - the players who should have won, did win. I suppose my position is as such because I don't care about underdogs winning - as long as the better player wins, I'm fine.


One of the advantages of extended series is that the superior player is more likely to go through. This makes sense, since the better player goes through in a best of 7 more often than a best of 3.


Yes, however the superior player should still win starting 0-0, he does not need a lead, being the "superior player". Of course a bo7 will make things less random, but it sacrifices excitement and legitimacy.

Solution? Just have bo5 games, without extended series.
Hi
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 23:44:51
June 05 2011 23:43 GMT
#409
My real complaint about extended series is I've never heard anyone complain about standard double elimination rules in any tournament. At fighting game tourneys (Evo, etc), there is no extended series rule and I've never heard of anyone who was eliminated by someone he beat in winner's complain about the overall score in my 10+ years of attending tournaments.

The advantage you get when you face someone you already beat is innate; you've already proven you can beat them so you should be able to do it again. I know I'd rather face someone I've already beaten than a potential wild card.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
June 05 2011 23:44 GMT
#410
--- Nuked ---
Zechs
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom321 Posts
June 05 2011 23:49 GMT
#411
As the last couple of posts pointed out, the advantage you have over a guy you have already beaten is already twofold. Firstly, you obviously have the ability to beat him. Secondly, you have a psychological edge by already having proved it. Adding yet a third, unnatural advantage, stifles competition.
Esports and stuff: zechleton.tumblr.com
HeadDesk
Profile Joined September 2010
United States171 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 00:47:27
June 06 2011 00:46 GMT
#412
Ok - now, with Losira against MMA in the finals - this creates another unique situation that extended series screws up (in this case not giving MMA enough of an advantage if we have extended series for the entire tournie as it is now).

In a normal double elimination - Losira should have to beat MMA in Bo3's (since he has not lost) - whereas MMA just has to beat Losira in one Bo3.

Instead - both players must now win a single Bo7 that starts at 2-1 in favor of MMA. If this were in the Loser's Bracket - this is the advantage that MMA would have regardless (having already lost a match).

So, to follow the Extended Series and maintain the double elimination integrity of the tournament:

- Losira SHOULD have to beat MMA in a Bo7 starting at 2-1 in favor of MMA
- THEN he should have to win a Bo3 starting at 0-0 (as the Bo7 loss would be MMA's first loss of this tournament).

This just is one example of how inconsistent it is when trying to implement it into a double elimination tournament.
echO [W]
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1495 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 00:51:01
June 06 2011 00:50 GMT
#413
I would love to hear Korean's thoughts on this. Pros, Netizens, Coaches, Mr. Chae, anybody.
"Or a school bus over a bunch of kids" - Tasteless --- “A man's errors are his portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
June 06 2011 00:51 GMT
#414
I don't really like it, but what I don't like more is how Thorzain was placed so closely to MC AND SeleCT in the loser bracket despite playing each other in the group stage, and therefore having two extended series. I don't know how, but surely they could come up with a formula to avoid that kind of thing.
PR4Y
Profile Joined November 2010
United States260 Posts
June 06 2011 01:08 GMT
#415
before the MLG finals... i was opposed to the "extended series" rules.... AFTER SEEING THE FINALS:



this is a rule that honestly needs to be reevaluated, NOW. such a weak finals.... ridiculous.
I'm your average Brotoss brother, weilding my brommortal, brothership, brolossus, bro ray, broenix... BROTHERHOOD OF BROTOSS
TzTz
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany511 Posts
June 06 2011 01:13 GMT
#416
+ Show Spoiler +
Two games in the final of a tournament really is a shame... I'd have loved to see at least two more exciting games of Losira vs MMA


This rule is just bad
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
June 06 2011 01:20 GMT
#417
I think the worst thing about the rule is the potential of making the player coming from the Winner's Bracket star the Grand Finals 0-2 against the player from the Loser's Bracket.

The overall best player should obviously have the advantage.

Sure it's not exactly likely to happen, but inconsitencies like this matters, no rule should have huge flaws that they keep just because the situation is unlikely. I didn't like it before, but, while disagreeing, could see their reasoning. Now, with Pool Play, I really don't understand how results from group stage should matter in the brackets.
Cytokinesis
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada330 Posts
June 06 2011 01:37 GMT
#418
The problem with the extended series is that it isn't at all equal to a bo7. The difference is the stakes are different for each match. In a double elimination it adds so much difficulty in moving on. 'll try to elaborate and clarify.

Take Idra vs MC extended series. MC went down to the loser bracket and fought through to face Idra again. The problem is now to move on he has to win 4 games. Just strategically speaking that is a lot more pressure than only having to win twice in Idra's position. You have to play very safe(r) because you can't afford a stupid loss. There is the inherent strategy of what builds you are going to do with each game, and that becomes much harder when you have to win more. Where as the winner in the extended series can choose to play extremely risky because he only has to win 2 games as opposed to 4. It becomes the question of whether or not you can 'afford' a loss, and in the case of an extended series the loser can NEVER afford a loss. The winner can afford at least one loss because then at the very least they are 'even'. So from a risk-reward standpoint you can get a free-win or a negligible loss.
Ive seen people who dont believe in sleep count sheep with calculators that double as alarm clocks
ihavetofartosis
Profile Joined January 2011
1277 Posts
June 06 2011 01:38 GMT
#419
A 2 game Grand Final is pretty lame any way you look at it.
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
June 06 2011 01:41 GMT
#420
On June 06 2011 10:38 ihavetofartosis wrote:
A 2 game Grand Final is pretty lame any way you look at it.


The games were so epic, I didn't care!
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