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On October 29 2010 16:40 kXn wrote:
Hello TL,
I'm a gold random player and I was matched up against some protoss from diamond. I randomed as T and lost, and later I checked his match history, he had around 25 losses each game lasting only 1-2 seconds, which means he left each one of those.
Just curious, is that done in order to match up against lower players and get "free wins"? It sounds like a really stupid thing to do.
there is a good reason here
some players are in upper platinum for a very long time and when they finally after hundrets of games and with a rating around 1600 go up in diamond, they will start somewhere near 1000-1200, which can be pain in the ass, compared to what they got matched before
some just want to step back a little and dont care for win ratio
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On October 29 2010 19:00 nihoh wrote:
Only good for win massing... I would rather be in top 200 than have lots of wins. In fact lots of wins with lots of losses makes u look shit or mediocre in this system.
I get your point, but you also got to take into account the W/L%. Someone with 1000 games with a w/l% of 60% has 400 losses, and that's alot lol. But I understand what you mean, however anything above 65% winrate is impressive in my book, especially when you've played over 500 games and so 55-65% is in my opinion a very good player.
@OP I've faced some people on the 2v2 ladder and after they unsuccessfully cheese my friend and I, I look at their profile and they're some diamond league person (my friend and I are platinum) with a negative w/l% or somewhere in the 54-50% winrate percentage with a total of 500+ games, but they all had really cool portraits :D. In fact pre-1.12 patch I saw alot of people random and they had portraits like the Wraith, and Diamondback both on my team and opposing team, and the first thing they shoot for is a cheese (pre-1.12 patch I was gold-platinum in 2v2 and 3v3). Afterwards I check their profile, they're Bronze/Gold/Platinum league in 2v2/3v3. Personally I'd rather earn the portraits myself, and even the tip-top diamonds don't all have crazy portraits. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
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On October 29 2010 19:13 loadme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 16:40 kXn wrote:
Hello TL,
I'm a gold random player and I was matched up against some protoss from diamond. I randomed as T and lost, and later I checked his match history, he had around 25 losses each game lasting only 1-2 seconds, which means he left each one of those.
Just curious, is that done in order to match up against lower players and get "free wins"? It sounds like a really stupid thing to do. there is a good reason here some players are in upper platinum for a very long time and when they finally after hundrets of games and with a rating around 1600 go up in diamond, they will start somewhere near 1000-1200, which can be pain in the ass, compared to what they got matched before some just want to step back a little and dont care for win ratio
They won't suddenly get matched against different players right after promotion. If the players are top plat and ready for promotion, then they'll already be playing diamond level players since their MMR is already at the diamond level, but their MMR-uncertainty is just a bit too high for promotion. After promotion, nothing fundamental changes and the players will still face pretty much the same type of opponent as before.
Leagues are just a cosmetic thing covering the variable that really matters: MMR.
Consequently, tanking your MMR by mass-quitting is only useful if you want to encounter players that are much weaker than you or if you plan to win-trade-farm achievements.
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On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote:Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) 
Unlikely as Idra and other pros prefer to play within a certain playgroup instead of on the ladder. When doing so replays won't be circulated as much and the time spent playing is better spent when they play against an opponent of a certain caliber instead of random people off the ladder. There are, of course, other reasons as well.
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I'd rather have people purposely taking losses than to have the 1-2 minute grace period. I haven't laddered in a while, but I with longer loading times in SC2 I would not want to put up with people who have the game timer up and leave the game one second before the grace period ends. And then of course you can have people scout something they don't want to play against and leave without any kind of liability.
I don't see a good way to stop people from leaving a lot of games to tank their rating so they can beat up on lower rated people. Either the proposed grace period will be too short to matter (and they will continue to leave anyway), or it will be long enough where people can effectively scout cheese or get scouted cheesing and leave the game without actually losing.
Uninformed opinion without any supporting evidence:
+ Show Spoiler +However, I'm not quite sure this issue needs addressing in the first place. This is mostly speculation, but I don't see this having a noticeable impact on the ladder. If the guy is doing this optimally he starts leaving once he hits his skill ceiling until he drops low enough where his opponents mostly become free wins. He'll give some people free wins, which most likely wont affect their rating/MMR in the long run. When he starts playing, he will take a game off of a bunch of relative newbs. This will likely not affect their long term rating, but it will provide them with a good learning experience should they choose to take advantage of it, thus helping them improve. Yes, I am aware the last sentence sounds contradictory... + Show Spoiler +because I know someone will try to troll and think they are extremely clever.
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On October 29 2010 19:07 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote:Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) You'd still lose rating and MMR for quitting immediately, and Idra would gain both. The proposal is for games under a certain time limit (1 or 2 minutes) not be counted towards the achievements and meta-achievements that require ladder wins. Not that this has much of anything to do with the OP's problem. I highly doubt the guy was tanking his rating to get achievement credit. He was probably tanking his rating because he wanted to get a win streak on the way back up. Not everyone enjoys a fair fight.
I was responding to epik640x(should've prob quoted) which talked about loosing no MMR/rating before x minute.
I however think your idea of limit for counting towards achievement would be a pretty interesting idea to fix atleast win trading(ok atleast make it require more time), though by the sound of the OP, it was more just tanking his MMR, which I'd say should be allowed, since there's very little gain from doing it(the only one would be like someone said earlier, to train offrace on "equal MMR") compared to just loosing your placement matches.
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I do it a lot, if I want to try new builds I'll tank 5-7 games so I can try something new.
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As stupid as it looks,
but if you tend to rage hard over stupid losses and just saying to yourself "I don't care about winning on the ladder, only about improving" doesn't cut it anymore ...
..then quitting a few games is a good method to let go imo.
It does not directly help to improve your game, but after leaving 10 games in a row on purpose you're clearly in a better position to not take the ladder too serious anymore and just play to have fun and learn something.
This whole "I want to win and advance on the ladder" mentality is often in the way of enjoying the game and getting better.
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i never saw anything wrong with it. if they want to just get the portraits and continue to smash newbs i see nothing wrong with it. they're helping as many noobs as they are beating. :/ but in the end they're keeping their skills static, which is their problem.
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leaving ladder games to pull your MMR down a little is childish imho. Especially when you try out new build, it simply doesnt make sense to play a build which works versus lower players but not versus your actual skill level...
Just weird.
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i feel the MMR system should be reworked, because its absolutely awful to have about 950 points playing against 1600-1700 players, it makes it extremely difficult to get to any real respectable point range, wouldn't it be better to let me get to the actual point range in which i belong (or lower other kids to where they belong)? i cannot imagine playing like 2k+ pointers when i am at 1400, it would just be so stupid.
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I played random because I was annoyed with all the ZvZ I was getting, but though I lost a significant amount of games, I don't think my MMR shifted much, or it was much higher than I thought it was.
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On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote:Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros)
Probably won't happen because IdrA will be playing top players anyway since his MMR is high
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As stated aside from attempting to get free wins for portraits there would be no point in doing this.
If you are aiming to climb the ladder you will only hamper yourself. You learn the most from losing/playing people that are better than you, especially if your loss didn't result from some form of cheese/all-in.
You should always strive to be better, not just in sc2 but life as well - so I'm not sure why you would want to intentionally lose to player worse opponents.
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Maybe he wants to switch race and competition on his usual level is too togh for it
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On October 29 2010 19:03 Chanted wrote:
Getting your 6th pvp in a row can be annoying, so I have left some games when I get too many mirror matchups in a row.
Hahah yesterday I played like 6 PvP in a row, and roll another one. I think oh jeez, better proxy 3 gate and get this over with... But he leaves cos I did that to him in the previous game rofl, didnt notice it was the same guy.
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I am guilty of switching to random for 10 or 20 games with very little experience. I was a mid diamond player. After my random fiasco I'm still diamond, but I face about 50-50 diamond / plat users.
I've also left games in the first 1 or 2 minutes just because I've been unhappy with my scout's performance.
Bottom line is this, rating doesn't matter, just play to have fun. If someone is having fun by killing their MMR and facing newbs more power to him. If you are gold level and pissed because you just played a diamond level player use it as a learning experience.
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Kind of presumptuous, he could've just been practicing a specific matchup and leaving when he was matched incorrectly.
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A fix to this would just be to make it impossible to be qued up against someone for 2-3 mins once the game has started. Thus if you play games over 2-3 mins you get instant ques as per normal, where as if you leave before the 2-3 min mark there would be a delay in the que.
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On October 29 2010 18:40 epik640x wrote:
To blizzard, I would ask if they've considered putting a time requirement of at least 1 minute(or whatever they find to be an adequate amount of time) to ladder games.
If the game doesn't last a minute, there are no gains or losses in MMR and points.
Even a worker rush lasts more than 1 minute. This would probably significantly hinder these individuals trying to game the system and no one else.
and everyone can choose random and only play the race of choise ^^
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EPT
