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kXn
254 Posts
I'm a gold random player and I was matched up against some protoss from diamond. I randomed as T and lost, and later I checked his match history, he had around 25 losses each game lasting only 1-2 seconds, which means he left each one of those. Just curious, is that done in order to match up against lower players and get "free wins"? It sounds like a really stupid thing to do. | ||
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Sarang
Australia2363 Posts
Might sound stupid to you, but some people really want those portraits. | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
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Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
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epik640x
United States1134 Posts
If the game doesn't last a minute, there are no gains or losses in MMR and points. Even a worker rush lasts more than 1 minute. This would probably significantly hinder these individuals trying to game the system and no one else. | ||
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qui
United Kingdom36 Posts
For instance, if you regularly get beaten by player X, if you see him on the loading screen you could just quit and not lose any points. | ||
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Imperfect1987
United States558 Posts
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:44 qui wrote: The problem with that is on the loading screen you could potentially identify if it is "worth" playing an opponent and then quitting otherwise. For instance, if you regularly get beaten by player X, if you see him on the loading screen you could just quit and not lose any points. Aw its a XvY. I hate playing against Y race...leave so I only have to play against something else. Or, I hate this map. BS map and then leave. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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wiwihaha
Hong Kong2 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:45 ReketSomething wrote: Aw its a XvY. I hate playing against Y race...leave so I only have to play against something else. Or, I hate this map. BS map and then leave. this is even worse. it just makes the ladder more unhealthy by skipping stronger opponents/specific races | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
First of all, if you want those wins, just go play and win, that's why you're so high ranked, because you're so good. Second, even when you get your wins back, you'll probably be lower because you were playing against low rated people at the time. Third, it's not a test of your own skill as you're playing against "lower" people. | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
did you see his most commonly used race? | ||
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Chanted
Norway1001 Posts
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Tomo009
Australia96 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:40 epik640x wrote: To blizzard, I would ask if they've considered putting a time requirement of at least 1 minute(or whatever they find to be an adequate amount of time) to ladder games. If the game doesn't last a minute, there are no gains or losses in MMR and points. Even a worker rush lasts more than 1 minute. This would probably significantly hinder these individuals trying to game the system and no one else. I love this idea cause my computer seems a tendency to disconnect me while games are loading, so it would fix that problem too. | ||
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
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Sad[Panda]
United States458 Posts
in Wc3 you could Quit about 10 games in a row and play trash players and win 25+ in a row before any real change in player skill and the change is still minuscule so you could probably go higher than that I didn't because well its boring and defeats the purpose id rather try to go 25-0 than go 25-10. I really hope this doesn't work in sc2 I got sick of abusers who thought they were hot shit in Wc3 I don't need those BM kids to invade my SC2 :< | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote: Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) You'd still lose rating and MMR for quitting immediately, and Idra would gain both. The proposal is for games under a certain time limit (1 or 2 minutes) not be counted towards the achievements and meta-achievements that require ladder wins. Not that this has much of anything to do with the OP's problem. I highly doubt the guy was tanking his rating to get achievement credit. He was probably tanking his rating because he wanted to get a win streak on the way back up. Not everyone enjoys a fair fight. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:05 Sad[Panda] wrote: This used to happen alot in wc3, I personally tried it once to see if the problem was as severe as people said, and damn right it was in Wc3 you could Quit about 10 games in a row and play trash players and win 25+ in a row before any real change in player skill and the change is still minuscule so you could probably go higher than that I didn't because well its boring and defeats the purpose id rather try to go 25-0 than go 25-10. I really hope this doesn't work in sc2 I got sick of abusers who thought they were hot shit in Wc3 I don't need those BM kids to invade my SC2 :< From my experience Sc2's matchmaking adapts really fast to your skill level. After losing those 10 games I bet it would only take like 6-8 games for the system to replace you to somewhere close of where you were before forfeiting those 10 games. | ||
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loadme
171 Posts
On October 29 2010 16:40 kXn wrote: Hello TL, I'm a gold random player and I was matched up against some protoss from diamond. I randomed as T and lost, and later I checked his match history, he had around 25 losses each game lasting only 1-2 seconds, which means he left each one of those. Just curious, is that done in order to match up against lower players and get "free wins"? It sounds like a really stupid thing to do. there is a good reason here some players are in upper platinum for a very long time and when they finally after hundrets of games and with a rating around 1600 go up in diamond, they will start somewhere near 1000-1200, which can be pain in the ass, compared to what they got matched before some just want to step back a little and dont care for win ratio | ||
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~GhoSt
145 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:00 nihoh wrote: Only good for win massing... I would rather be in top 200 than have lots of wins. In fact lots of wins with lots of losses makes u look shit or mediocre in this system. I get your point, but you also got to take into account the W/L%. Someone with 1000 games with a w/l% of 60% has 400 losses, and that's alot lol. But I understand what you mean, however anything above 65% winrate is impressive in my book, especially when you've played over 500 games and so 55-65% is in my opinion a very good player. @OP I've faced some people on the 2v2 ladder and after they unsuccessfully cheese my friend and I, I look at their profile and they're some diamond league person (my friend and I are platinum) with a negative w/l% or somewhere in the 54-50% winrate percentage with a total of 500+ games, but they all had really cool portraits :D. In fact pre-1.12 patch I saw alot of people random and they had portraits like the Wraith, and Diamondback both on my team and opposing team, and the first thing they shoot for is a cheese (pre-1.12 patch I was gold-platinum in 2v2 and 3v3). Afterwards I check their profile, they're Bronze/Gold/Platinum league in 2v2/3v3. Personally I'd rather earn the portraits myself, and even the tip-top diamonds don't all have crazy portraits. Just my 2 cents on the topic. | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:13 loadme wrote: there is a good reason here some players are in upper platinum for a very long time and when they finally after hundrets of games and with a rating around 1600 go up in diamond, they will start somewhere near 1000-1200, which can be pain in the ass, compared to what they got matched before some just want to step back a little and dont care for win ratio They won't suddenly get matched against different players right after promotion. If the players are top plat and ready for promotion, then they'll already be playing diamond level players since their MMR is already at the diamond level, but their MMR-uncertainty is just a bit too high for promotion. After promotion, nothing fundamental changes and the players will still face pretty much the same type of opponent as before. Leagues are just a cosmetic thing covering the variable that really matters: MMR. Consequently, tanking your MMR by mass-quitting is only useful if you want to encounter players that are much weaker than you or if you plan to win-trade-farm achievements. | ||
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kariido
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote: Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) Unlikely as Idra and other pros prefer to play within a certain playgroup instead of on the ladder. When doing so replays won't be circulated as much and the time spent playing is better spent when they play against an opponent of a certain caliber instead of random people off the ladder. There are, of course, other reasons as well. | ||
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Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
I don't see a good way to stop people from leaving a lot of games to tank their rating so they can beat up on lower rated people. Either the proposed grace period will be too short to matter (and they will continue to leave anyway), or it will be long enough where people can effectively scout cheese or get scouted cheesing and leave the game without actually losing. Uninformed opinion without any supporting evidence: + Show Spoiler + However, I'm not quite sure this issue needs addressing in the first place. This is mostly speculation, but I don't see this having a noticeable impact on the ladder. If the guy is doing this optimally he starts leaving once he hits his skill ceiling until he drops low enough where his opponents mostly become free wins. He'll give some people free wins, which most likely wont affect their rating/MMR in the long run. When he starts playing, he will take a game off of a bunch of relative newbs. This will likely not affect their long term rating, but it will provide them with a good learning experience should they choose to take advantage of it, thus helping them improve. Yes, I am aware the last sentence sounds contradictory... + Show Spoiler + because I know someone will try to troll and think they are extremely clever. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:07 kojinshugi wrote: You'd still lose rating and MMR for quitting immediately, and Idra would gain both. The proposal is for games under a certain time limit (1 or 2 minutes) not be counted towards the achievements and meta-achievements that require ladder wins. Not that this has much of anything to do with the OP's problem. I highly doubt the guy was tanking his rating to get achievement credit. He was probably tanking his rating because he wanted to get a win streak on the way back up. Not everyone enjoys a fair fight. I was responding to epik640x(should've prob quoted) which talked about loosing no MMR/rating before x minute. I however think your idea of limit for counting towards achievement would be a pretty interesting idea to fix atleast win trading(ok atleast make it require more time), though by the sound of the OP, it was more just tanking his MMR, which I'd say should be allowed, since there's very little gain from doing it(the only one would be like someone said earlier, to train offrace on "equal MMR") compared to just loosing your placement matches. | ||
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Thurokiir
United States779 Posts
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
but if you tend to rage hard over stupid losses and just saying to yourself "I don't care about winning on the ladder, only about improving" doesn't cut it anymore ... ..then quitting a few games is a good method to let go imo. It does not directly help to improve your game, but after leaving 10 games in a row on purpose you're clearly in a better position to not take the ladder too serious anymore and just play to have fun and learn something. This whole "I want to win and advance on the ladder" mentality is often in the way of enjoying the game and getting better. | ||
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StarN
United States2587 Posts
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
Just weird. | ||
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Tempy
United States46 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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AnodyneSea
Jamaica757 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote: Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) Probably won't happen because IdrA will be playing top players anyway since his MMR is high | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
If you are aiming to climb the ladder you will only hamper yourself. You learn the most from losing/playing people that are better than you, especially if your loss didn't result from some form of cheese/all-in. You should always strive to be better, not just in sc2 but life as well - so I'm not sure why you would want to intentionally lose to player worse opponents. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:03 Chanted wrote: Getting your 6th pvp in a row can be annoying, so I have left some games when I get too many mirror matchups in a row. Hahah yesterday I played like 6 PvP in a row, and roll another one. I think oh jeez, better proxy 3 gate and get this over with... But he leaves cos I did that to him in the previous game rofl, didnt notice it was the same guy. | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
I've also left games in the first 1 or 2 minutes just because I've been unhappy with my scout's performance. Bottom line is this, rating doesn't matter, just play to have fun. If someone is having fun by killing their MMR and facing newbs more power to him. If you are gold level and pissed because you just played a diamond level player use it as a learning experience. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
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Yilar
Denmark90 Posts
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SpurvL
Sweden345 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:40 epik640x wrote: To blizzard, I would ask if they've considered putting a time requirement of at least 1 minute(or whatever they find to be an adequate amount of time) to ladder games. If the game doesn't last a minute, there are no gains or losses in MMR and points. Even a worker rush lasts more than 1 minute. This would probably significantly hinder these individuals trying to game the system and no one else. and everyone can choose random and only play the race of choise ^^ | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
It's the same kind of people that left 4v4 games to farm possible free wins. | ||
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MrLonely
60 Posts
On October 29 2010 22:00 Tempy wrote: i feel the MMR system should be reworked, because its absolutely awful to have about 950 points playing against 1600-1700 players, it makes it extremely difficult to get to any real respectable point range, wouldn't it be better to let me get to the actual point range in which i belong (or lower other kids to where they belong)? i cannot imagine playing like 2k+ pointers when i am at 1400, it would just be so stupid. Yeah, this has been pointed out before but for some reason it's never taken seriously and a lot of people actually deny that this could happen, even though it happens to a lot of people. It could be what he's doing. I know I've thought about it. | ||
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Sumwar
Canada199 Posts
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klauz619
453 Posts
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
On October 29 2010 22:41 MrLonely wrote: Yeah, this has been pointed out before but for some reason it's never taken seriously and a lot of people actually deny that this could happen, even though it happens to a lot of people. It could be what he's doing. I know I've thought about it. The entire point of pitting you against higher players is that you can get to higher points faster. You are probably at the same skill level as them. The only reason you have less points is because you have played less, and therefore have not used all of your bonus pool. It would not be fair if someone who barely used their bonus pool was at the same point range and skill as someone who used up all of their bonus pool. Why is it awful to play someone closer to your level? If you are not at a higher level than them, you will not be placed against higher opponents as your points go up. This is because your MMR will remain roughly the same because you will have close to a 50% winrate while your points will go up because of your bonus pool. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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kmkkmk
Germany418 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:57 wiwihaha wrote: this is even worse. it just makes the ladder more unhealthy by skipping stronger opponents/specific races No it is not. Its applying day9 wisdom and it is really simple: Your brain works good if you limit options. In my case it is as simple as I want to improve my PvT so I leave every game where my opponent is not a terran. This helps me improve one thing at a time. | ||
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MrLonely
60 Posts
On October 29 2010 22:56 Enervate wrote: The entire point of pitting you against higher players is that you can get to higher points faster. You are probably at the same skill level as them. The only reason you have less points is because you have played less, and therefore have not used all of your bonus pool. It would not be fair if someone who barely used their bonus pool was at the same point range and skill as someone who used up all of their bonus pool. Why is it awful to play someone closer to your level? If you are not at a higher level than them, you will not be placed against higher opponents as your points go up. This is because your MMR will remain roughly the same because you will have close to a 50% winrate while your points will go up because of your bonus pool. I don't know if this is the right place to have this discussion, but you get the same points beating a 1700+ player as 950 yourself, as someone sitting at 1700 points. It's all about whether you're evenly matched or not according to MMR. So it's fully possible to win 50% of games against higher rated opponents and still be stuck at a lower rating. | ||
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AZbadfish
United States56 Posts
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Champ24
177 Posts
The System is actually pretty slow at reacting to the losses if your MMR is well established. It took me about 100 losses to bottom out, and is taking me about equally as long to climb back up. I was 20 wins above .500, and I'll probably level off there when it's said and done. I'm 1 win below .500 and currently playing low diamond. | ||
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Rasva_Pallo
Finland126 Posts
If it's about players in general there are many reasons to do this. Most of them been said in previous posts: portraits, achievements, switching race, switching play style, etc. If it's about certain player you could always ask the player? For the speculations how to solve the problem that someone is sunking his ratings on purpose? I think solving the problem will cause many bigger problems. | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
On October 29 2010 19:03 Chanted wrote: Getting your 6th pvp in a row can be annoying, so I have left some games when I get too many mirror matchups in a row. This. I'm on an epic losing streak right now, I've lost 16 of the last 20 went from 1750 diamond to 1600. Most of these losses are zvz (everyone goes all-in) because apparently zerg is the flavor of the month and one time I was facing a random opponent and as soon as I saw an overlord I said, "fuck zvz" and left. | ||
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Dagon
Romania264 Posts
On October 29 2010 18:49 Zarahtra wrote: Lmao would love to watch idrA's face while laddering then. 90% of the time people would just leave rather than face him(or other pros) Hell no! I would preffer to play only against top players even if i get smashed every game.. At least i would learn something.. | ||
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ChThoniC
United States536 Posts
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adius
United States249 Posts
On October 29 2010 23:07 kmkkmk wrote: No it is not. Its applying day9 wisdom and it is really simple: Your brain works good if you limit options. In my case it is as simple as I want to improve my PvT so I leave every game where my opponent is not a terran. This helps me improve one thing at a time. Is it THAT hard to find a decent practice partner? I think there's even a thread here to help you with that. | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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SoL[9]
Portugal1370 Posts
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megagoten
318 Posts
On October 29 2010 23:09 MrLonely wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to have this discussion, but you get the same points beating a 1700+ player as 950 yourself, as someone sitting at 1700 points. It's all about whether you're evenly matched or not according to MMR. So it's fully possible to win 50% of games against higher rated opponents and still be stuck at a lower rating. no it's not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect if you play at 50% against rated opponent, you'll win 15 pts per win and lose about 4 per loss, meaning you won't stay at the same rating | ||
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Tempy
United States46 Posts
On October 30 2010 00:52 megagoten wrote: no it's not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect if you play at 50% against rated opponent, you'll win 15 pts per win and lose about 4 per loss, meaning you won't stay at the same rating when i play against 1700 players with my 950 rating, i still lose the full 11-14 points per loss, and i only gain points from my bonus pool at 50% win rate (hell i have even been slightly favored vs a 1800 zerg), which is stupid, at least place me against 1400's and give me even points or make them slightly favored at 1700, the points balancing is awful. edit: if the dunning kruger effect were to apply to anyone in this situation, its the 1700's ive been beating. (in short, MMR should not be the only determining factor in the system, total points should factor in as well) by doing this, people will be at the point ranges they belong. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On October 30 2010 00:52 megagoten wrote: no it's not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect if you play at 50% against rated opponent, you'll win 15 pts per win and lose about 4 per loss, meaning you won't stay at the same rating That's hilarious. I couldn't have said it better myself. I think there are some quirks in the MMR system. For example some people intentionally lose a game to lower their sigma. But even that "bug" is debatable (you can probably keep winning and Battle Net may promote you over multiple leagues at once). In short, the system works and you would be promoted if you deserve to be promoted. | ||
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