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On October 26 2010 11:50 SaDGoWu wrote:
This is the most imbalanced Patch to date. Roach are outrageously OP. Void Ray has been removed from the game which means BC and Thors have no counter (Blizzard insured this by removing feedback) , Ultralisks now have no counter. Patch 1.0 was more balanced than this shit. This is coming from someone whose consistantly been top 200, and went up 22 ranks this patch, but in terms of Real Skill level, i should have gone up 40+ but this patch handicaps my skill. This game has devolved into Uncounterable Ball 1a.
HAHAHA no
i suggest you move on from your ball of "1a" and learn 2 play
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The Blizzard employees behave like suppressing scumbags. I really have enough of their dumb number games. So the points scale also differs between the divisions. Then there is the growing bonus pool which makes people's points ever less convincive since people who get promoted late or start out late won't have the same amount or other people just went through a long period of being inactive. No map stats, no race stats.
Thanks for not allowing us to map everyone's performance, Blizzard.
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Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows Zerg is OP -- Superfluous thread.
User was warned for this post
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zerg gets one buff and its imba lmao. everybody needs to stop complaining. roach was sucha useless unit. died to maruders/stalkers/ everything else. you want us to go back to muta ling/ banelings?
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On October 26 2010 11:50 SaDGoWu wrote:
This is the most imbalanced Patch to date. Roach are outrageously OP. Void Ray has been removed from the game which means BC and Thors have no counter (Blizzard insured this by removing feedback) , Ultralisks now have no counter. Patch 1.0 was more balanced than this shit. This is coming from someone whose consistantly been top 200, and went up 22 ranks this patch, but in terms of Real Skill level, i should have gone up 40+ but this patch handicaps my skill. This game has devolved into Uncounterable Ball 1a.
User was warned for this post
I know I shouldn't feed the troll but for someone in the top 200 this post of yours doesnt really prove you deserve that spot. I mean really, roaches gain 1 range and are suddenly OP? Also ultras now have no counter? Last time I checked they got nerfed this last patch.
Call me crazy but it sounds like a 4 warpgating toss who managed to 4 warpgate his way to diamond, suddenly had his game thrown off. And why are you complaining about going up in ranks? Obviously warpgating still works for you. Maybe just not all the time...
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I also played Aloola. Somehow won. If someone can analyze message me.
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On October 26 2010 12:04 thundertoss wrote:
I don't know for sure about that. Void rays are stronger with a level 1 charge. This means vs Z 2 void rays now beat 2 queens whereas prepatch i believe they lost. They gain some other advantages although I have yet to test them out fully. Roaches didn't change very much except for the range buff. This is a huge change mind you but they weren't liked very much prepatch. It drastically changes stuff like the cannon rush wall in and being able to put cannons 1 space behind your protoss buildings but I think the main difference that that zergs are now able to hatch first and build up a much stronger economy. Thus roach pushes can come earlier or with more forces, making the roach appear much stronger when it is really just that the race as a whole has changed fairly dramatically.
i can't use void rays vs ultras anymore, because their damage it absolutely terrible. it literally takes 20 seconds to kill an ultra with 2 void rays.
the only thing i can do is suicide my chargelots into them. and it takes forever to kill them with chargelots.
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On October 26 2010 17:40 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 12:04 thundertoss wrote:
I don't know for sure about that. Void rays are stronger with a level 1 charge. This means vs Z 2 void rays now beat 2 queens whereas prepatch i believe they lost. They gain some other advantages although I have yet to test them out fully. Roaches didn't change very much except for the range buff. This is a huge change mind you but they weren't liked very much prepatch. It drastically changes stuff like the cannon rush wall in and being able to put cannons 1 space behind your protoss buildings but I think the main difference that that zergs are now able to hatch first and build up a much stronger economy. Thus roach pushes can come earlier or with more forces, making the roach appear much stronger when it is really just that the race as a whole has changed fairly dramatically. i can't use void rays vs ultras anymore, because their damage it absolutely terrible. it literally takes 20 seconds to kill an ultra with 2 void rays. the only thing i can do is suicide my chargelots into them. and it takes forever to kill them with chargelots.
Get 4 void rays?
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how do people get into top 200 anyway, i know its been asked, or at least i am sure its been asked, but how? win ratio? wins? points? or all?
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On October 26 2010 15:29 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 15:14 WeeKeong wrote:
^ No, it was probably a miscommunication. idra has only about 2000 points and hes 13th in Korea in the top 200 list. Hence, top 200 is not based on points. It was not a miscommunication. Divisions just aren't equal. His exact words were "it's just by points with the division part taken out". There is some kind of weighting or alteration in division points.
dude, no one is trying to tell you divisions are the same. Please read what people are saying, namely that the top 200 is not based on points. It's just a fact, look at sc2 ranks and try to find more than 2-3 people who have the same spot as they do on the top 200.
On October 26 2010 17:40 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 12:04 thundertoss wrote:
I don't know for sure about that. Void rays are stronger with a level 1 charge. This means vs Z 2 void rays now beat 2 queens whereas prepatch i believe they lost. They gain some other advantages although I have yet to test them out fully. Roaches didn't change very much except for the range buff. This is a huge change mind you but they weren't liked very much prepatch. It drastically changes stuff like the cannon rush wall in and being able to put cannons 1 space behind your protoss buildings but I think the main difference that that zergs are now able to hatch first and build up a much stronger economy. Thus roach pushes can come earlier or with more forces, making the roach appear much stronger when it is really just that the race as a whole has changed fairly dramatically. i can't use void rays vs ultras anymore, because their damage it absolutely terrible. it literally takes 20 seconds to kill an ultra with 2 void rays. the only thing i can do is suicide my chargelots into them. and it takes forever to kill them with chargelots.
lol dude, I am amazed at how much protoss is complaining about the VR nerf. There was no equivalent to them beforehand, no air unit was so immensely powerful against both air and ground. Just because VRs don't totally dominate everything in the game with an "armored" on them doesn't mean they suck.
On October 26 2010 17:55 wishbones wrote:
how do people get into top 200 anyway, i know its been asked, or at least i am sure its been asked, but how? win ratio? wins? points? or all?
hidden MMR
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Immortals have always been a good answer to ultras and roaches, especially with zealots, not VRs. VRs are much more gas heavy than zealots and immortals which means protoss will have less gas to get HT and colossus to kill hydras/zlings/muta/bane.
To me VRs have always been just really strong harass units (except in beta when they were too strong), and I guess occasional support unit such as to take out bunker/spine, but that's kinda iffy. I never saw them as a real army unit, because I don't think that was ever their intended purpose.
Anyway, that said, I think the VR damage vs armored was knocked down too much for sure, and think that the damage buff vs non-armored was a bad idea.
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On October 26 2010 17:40 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 12:04 thundertoss wrote:
I don't know for sure about that. Void rays are stronger with a level 1 charge. This means vs Z 2 void rays now beat 2 queens whereas prepatch i believe they lost. They gain some other advantages although I have yet to test them out fully. Roaches didn't change very much except for the range buff. This is a huge change mind you but they weren't liked very much prepatch. It drastically changes stuff like the cannon rush wall in and being able to put cannons 1 space behind your protoss buildings but I think the main difference that that zergs are now able to hatch first and build up a much stronger economy. Thus roach pushes can come earlier or with more forces, making the roach appear much stronger when it is really just that the race as a whole has changed fairly dramatically. i can't use void rays vs ultras anymore, because their damage it absolutely terrible. it literally takes 20 seconds to kill an ultra with 2 void rays. the only thing i can do is suicide my chargelots into them. and it takes forever to kill them with chargelots.
you can still use voidrays. ultas certainly can't attack them back. if you're being aggressive with VR's then you win. Otherwise you're trying to get a VR when ultra's are already pushing your base and that seems like you are already far behind. VR's still do nice plus dmg vs armor and have decent dps. Not like it was before but you also can't complain about it if your fighting them w/ zealots. Get a few immortals and you would be just fine. The VR is good vs armor but its an air harass unit with a cool ability. It is not meant to be a blanket solution to everything late game.
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That's some interesting statistics;
2T
4P
4Z
in top 10. Seems to me that this only confirms what we already know; Z and P has more room for improvement. One thing to note though is that the Z on that list has a shitton of played games.
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On October 26 2010 18:24 drlame wrote:
That's some interesting statistics;
2T
4P
4Z
in top 10. Seems to me that this only confirms what we already know; Z and P has more room for improvement. One thing to note though is that the Z on that list has a shitton of played games.
It doesn't confirm anything at all.
It's a completely arbitrary snapshot of a leaderboard that changes constantly. The sample size you're using is so small it's a joke. One or two guys having a bad week or even just not playing as much skews the ranking way more than any balance patching would.
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On October 26 2010 18:09 Camlito wrote:
alOola is mOOnglade.
-.-;; do you understand the point of smurfing cam? come on it was fun watching some of the americans theorizing that glade was a korean pro  .
But now that it's out, glade is both #15 and #16, LOL
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On October 26 2010 18:58 Ftrunkz wrote:-.-;; do you understand the point of smurfing cam? come on it was fun watching some of the americans theorizing that glade was a korean pro . But now that it's out, glade is both #15 and #16, LOL
Yeh i wanted to edit my post, but glade deserves credit!
lol i felt bad saying it because i read the thread, but then i saw the rankings and saw that his actual main account was right near it so i just found it hilarious.
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This thread is full of overreactions from toss players and stupid responses from toss haters. First of all, how can we discuss balance seriously if you make the assumption that any somewhat successful toss player 4gated his way to victory, just because day9 said you can do it (you can but its not common, at least not in the top 200 tosses ive played against.) doesn't mean every toss was just a cheesy noob, those assumptions give people the same OMG L2P arguments that were used by terrans on zergs for so long. Secondly, if you think the roach change doesn't have a huge effect on PvZ, you've never played the matchup at a decent level, the change made about 90 percent of toss openings extremely dangerous. At the moment, the game looks fairly balanced, but lets not ignore that all the signs are pointing towards toss struggling the most.
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EPT
