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On October 27 2010 23:54 KaiserJohan wrote:
It's like T players telling Z players to "use ur tech, nydus moar" when Z get crushed by a T ball.
P telling T to use their tech; have you ever played or seen a TvP? Compare the impact 6 colossus have to 6 thors.
Show replays where T uses a high-tech army like alot of BC/Thors/banshee/Ghost/tanks and actually outright wins in a 200/200 battle, I'd be suprised if P ever went below 100 supply.
T is OP first 12 mins, midgame balanced, then P is OP. That really feels like an accurate description; question would be how to P's early and T's late without affecting the Z matchups. (although some early buff to P would certainly help against the roach buff)
(imho 250mm cannons into 9 range is one good option....)
Ah I remember back when I was Terran and I tried to Thor "lockdown" my opponent's colossi, didn't work out too well.
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On October 27 2010 08:04 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 07:47 Zrah wrote:On October 27 2010 07:27 PJA wrote:On October 27 2010 03:22 Friend23 wrote:
another thing is that P will never win a 200/200 battle against T no matter what, however if it happens to be a macro game with 200/200, P has much faster production time due to gateways
??? The exact opposite is much closer to reality. If P has either colossus/stalker against a T without many vikings or immortal/templar/stalker/zealot against a T who produces enough vikings to make colossi ineffective, a protoss 200/200 will absolutely wreck a T 200/200 army. Unless T gets perfect EMPS, protoss usually crushes late game, and can reinforce much faster. This isn't even taking into account carriers, which are absolutely brutal late game if P manages to get them. Vikings, Siege tanks, collosus is out of the picture, just siege move the Protoss and he won't stand a chance. Late game Terran can tear Protoss to pieces if he moves away from pure mmm, Tanks, Ravens, Ghosts all are a bane to protoss army, i have seen BC with Marauders on ground for later game T. Since only ground that can do something is stalker and maras rape em. Watch, for example, NEXGenius' PvT. At blizzcon, most of the games he loses are from either a) attemping a cheesy DT rush, b) losing to a timing attack after 1 gate expanding or c) never switching out of colossus 25 minutes into the game. And even in other games where he sticks with pure stalker/colossus against marauder/medivac/viking, he manages to win. Games where he actually transitioned to HT, he absolutely crushed, like one of his games on scrap station against loner. There's a reason SeleCT had to abuse medivac drops heavily to do well at MLG, QXC abused drops so heavily in NY, and why none of the other terrans did very well against HuK or KiWiKaKi. The only way for terran to do well against protoss currently is with early aggression or harassment all over the place, because late game they get steamrolled and it's not even close.
Might I suggest watching those NEXGenius games with only having NEX's vision? Many of the choices he makes are completely blind with NO scouting whatsoever and he just got lucky in his games against Select. I really expected better play out of him. Yeah, he won. But only because apparently they were playing some kind of NR20 ruleset that didn't require scouting or pressure.
One game in particular, NEX vs Select on LT (round 1). Nex had six sentries and one stalker and was tossing up his expansion. If you switch to his vision at around 6-7 minute mark (7:13 to be exact. I just watched it yesterday and was completely appalled), 1) he doesn't even have the Terran base scouted, 2) has no clue what the Terran is doing. I restate: he doesn't even have vision of a barracks or CC. It's just empty space. 3) he just blindly chose a build and rolled the dice. If the terran was doing a 3 rax pressure, he would have no idea about it and he would have lost easily. I mean, come on, he didn't even have control of his watchtower.
Not saying NEX is a bad player, but I wouldn't use his games as a benchmark.
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Or maybe SelecT is so utterly predictable Genius didn't feel a need to bother scouting him?
Wait I just checked the game and you're completely and utterly wrong. He's seen his expo and 2 raxes so he knows he's 2rax FEing (as usual). You sure you meant the LT game?
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On October 28 2010 00:05 Yaotzin wrote:
Or maybe SelecT is so utterly predictable Genius didn't feel a need to bother scouting him?
Wait I just checked the game and you're completely and utterly wrong. He's seen his expo and 2 raxes so he knows he's 2rax FEing (as usual). You sure you meant the LT game?
Hmm, I'm pretty sure. It was game 2 after the DT rush. Unless the "vision" feature is broken?
Uh, no, he doesn't have any knowledge of an expansion until he brings his obs in at 7 minutes into the game. His unit composition is 6 sentries and 1 stalker which would NOT hold his expansion at all. Likewise, select doesn't even scout him.
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Worked for me :0 He saw the 2 raxes with his scouting probe before it died, then his obs went and saw the expansion. Pretty much standard scouting, other than not taking the watchtower which he should've done.
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While I can see why Blizz is coming to the TvP conclusions that they are, I'm not convinced that late game storm is OP. There are a lot of options late game to be explored, and while warp-in amulet storm is powerful vs bio (mostly marines)... what if Terrans can find builds and compositions that aren't vulnerable to storm late game?
Seems to me that either ghosts or banshess plus observer hunting has potential. What does it take, 3 vikings to one shot an observer? Also PDD + drops or PDD + banshee(s) vs workers would seem excellent if it could be squeezed in once Protoss start cannon defending. You can spot observers along the way or know if your harass would be a surprise. PDD protects from warped in stalkers or cannons.
And in a tight busy match (read no cannons made yet), one banshee even without cloak in a base during a small battle can be game changing.
Also I like Loner's play. Banshee harass worked out great for him in a lot of recent matches vs P. Ghosts. I liked his attempt at tank + bunker slow push in that one Xel'Naga Caverns but he got overzealous (moved up too soon) and Genius performed a really nicely timed warp-prism drop flank that I doubt many others could repeat.
Anyway, early game there aren't so many options. Late game, there are potentially many.
And really, since Voidrays are basically a tiny threat now, Terran should explore more tech options. I think recent pro play is just reflecting the knowledge that early bio is the best early option, so many are all going bio then don't transition. Loner being the biggest exception from what I've seen.
Given time, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Nada go for a heavy mech style. Or someone like Boxer develop some excellent harass and micro-defense vs storm late game vs P.
And last, this sounds crazy, but has anybody tried semi late game bunker pushes or just take middle defense with the upgraded bunkers? With upgraded bunkers (6 marines or 4 marines + 1 marauder) you have more damage that you can stim and focus fire attacks at the bunker level... backed by tanks/banshee vs stalkers/colossi... I dunno it seems like it'd have potential.
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On October 26 2010 01:04 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 20:58 DamageInq wrote:
I can see marauder stim hurting the maruaders more in most situations. I think a lot of that is not caluculating your stims. There's no doubt that it's benificial when taking out an expansion, or in a maruader vs mostly stalker fight. I think maps are a huge part of this entire problem and we need some wide open center luna style maps (imagine playing PvT on maps where you army is constantly splitting down fucking hallways or force you to run into a narrow passage if you want to attack + a more mobile terran army (since we know P in SC2 is a lot more mobile than T in BW)) The one thing I Would advocate is having observers either build faster, cost less, or placed in a different building. If drops are really such an issue its mainly due to people scouting HORRIBLY bad as protoss in this game. I see maybe 1 or 2 observers max. If you have the map just defend like you did in BW and use a pylon ring + observers. Currently while making colossus or immortal making a ton of observers can be hard so I can understand why that would be an issue so maybe move them to nexus with an upgrade at the robotics or something (or some add on after robotics like in BW)
Maps are not a big problem. Both P and T has units that can utilize the narrow spaces for optimal splash damage (Tanks, Colossus).
Making Observer faster will not change the fact that T > P early game.
I refuse to believe that P > T late game, even with Colossus. Terran needs to find different unit combination and stop using T1 units against Protoss's T3 units. Of course T1 is not supposed to take down T3 units. A more Mech army with marauders seems more suitable, especially because marines are so small that it eats up Colossus splash.
The way I see it, Marauders are the biggest problem with T > P early game. They could use a heavy nerf. (Perhaps 50% reduction in CS's slow or a cooldown)
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On October 28 2010 11:32 lastmotion wrote:
I refuse to believe that P > T late game, even with Colossus. Terran needs to find different unit combination and stop using T1 units against Protoss's T3 units. Of course T1 is not supposed to take down T3 units. A more Mech army with marauders seems more suitable, especially because marines are so small that it eats up Colossus splash.
I also have a hard time believing this - we've seen protoss use carriers in lategame vs terran WAY more often than terran use battlecruisers; why? there is simply no way, terran could convince me that BCs are "harder" to get; and when protoss goes for chargelots/HTs, BCs counter this hard; if protoss switches back to more stalkers, then marauders/tanks will do better;
also, very few terrans make effective use of ravens; protoss pretty much uses ALL his units vs terran throughout the game - zealots/stalker/sentry/immortal into colossi, then tech-switch to chargelots/HTs, very lategame into carriers;
terran most of the time stubbornly refuses any tech-switch vs protoss...like....at all; all you read is blah P>T lategame;
yeah tanks die vs charge-lots...but nobody says terran should produce "mass"-tanks?
also I've lost some games because terran added some blue-flame hellions and did ridiculous damage vs my chargelots because I couldn't "prevent" the charge - again: charge working against protoss; and hellions are super-easy to afford later on
but guess what - terrans prefer to lift the factory off and scout with it....I mean, how can you argue imbalance when some terrans even refuse to make factory-units throughout the whole game? when protoss on the other hand produces basicly every unit they have?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
also I've lost some games because terran added some blue-flame hellions and did ridiculous damage vs my chargelots because I couldn't "prevent" the charge - again: charge working against protoss; and hellions are super-easy to afford later on I've actually started disabling autocast charge once armies get sufficiently large... kinda silly to have 12 zealots swarming around 1 marauder...
On October 28 2010 11:32 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:04 Sadist wrote:On October 25 2010 20:58 DamageInq wrote:
I can see marauder stim hurting the maruaders more in most situations. I think a lot of that is not caluculating your stims. There's no doubt that it's benificial when taking out an expansion, or in a maruader vs mostly stalker fight. I think maps are a huge part of this entire problem and we need some wide open center luna style maps (imagine playing PvT on maps where you army is constantly splitting down fucking hallways or force you to run into a narrow passage if you want to attack + a more mobile terran army (since we know P in SC2 is a lot more mobile than T in BW)) The one thing I Would advocate is having observers either build faster, cost less, or placed in a different building. If drops are really such an issue its mainly due to people scouting HORRIBLY bad as protoss in this game. I see maybe 1 or 2 observers max. If you have the map just defend like you did in BW and use a pylon ring + observers. Currently while making colossus or immortal making a ton of observers can be hard so I can understand why that would be an issue so maybe move them to nexus with an upgrade at the robotics or something (or some add on after robotics like in BW) Maps are not a big problem. Both P and T has units that can utilize the narrow spaces for optimal splash damage (Tanks, Colossus). Making Observer faster will not change the fact that T > P early game. I refuse to believe that P > T late game, even with Colossus. Terran needs to find different unit combination and stop using T1 units against Protoss's T3 units. Of course T1 is not supposed to take down T3 units. A more Mech army with marauders seems more suitable, especially because marines are so small that it eats up Colossus splash. The way I see it, Marauders are the biggest problem with T > P early game. They could use a heavy nerf. (Perhaps 50% reduction in CS's slow or a cooldown) Just making it so that you require a factory or something for concussive would make early game would be 100% fine imo.
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Pretty much on the ball.
I'm not sure about the other things, but terran dominating early game and protoss dominating late game is absolutely true.
Terran goes marine maruader and transitions into... marine marauder medivac?
Where as protoss have Insta-storms with the upgrade, and big bad collusi.
Terran is out matched Late game.
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Fuck wrong thread, delete please 
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 28 2010 19:51 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +also I've lost some games because terran added some blue-flame hellions and did ridiculous damage vs my chargelots because I couldn't "prevent" the charge - again: charge working against protoss; and hellions are super-easy to afford later on I've actually started disabling autocast charge once armies get sufficiently large... kinda silly to have 12 zealots swarming around 1 marauder... Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:32 lastmotion wrote:On October 26 2010 01:04 Sadist wrote:On October 25 2010 20:58 DamageInq wrote:
I can see marauder stim hurting the maruaders more in most situations. I think a lot of that is not caluculating your stims. There's no doubt that it's benificial when taking out an expansion, or in a maruader vs mostly stalker fight. I think maps are a huge part of this entire problem and we need some wide open center luna style maps (imagine playing PvT on maps where you army is constantly splitting down fucking hallways or force you to run into a narrow passage if you want to attack + a more mobile terran army (since we know P in SC2 is a lot more mobile than T in BW)) The one thing I Would advocate is having observers either build faster, cost less, or placed in a different building. If drops are really such an issue its mainly due to people scouting HORRIBLY bad as protoss in this game. I see maybe 1 or 2 observers max. If you have the map just defend like you did in BW and use a pylon ring + observers. Currently while making colossus or immortal making a ton of observers can be hard so I can understand why that would be an issue so maybe move them to nexus with an upgrade at the robotics or something (or some add on after robotics like in BW) Maps are not a big problem. Both P and T has units that can utilize the narrow spaces for optimal splash damage (Tanks, Colossus). Making Observer faster will not change the fact that T > P early game. I refuse to believe that P > T late game, even with Colossus. Terran needs to find different unit combination and stop using T1 units against Protoss's T3 units. Of course T1 is not supposed to take down T3 units. A more Mech army with marauders seems more suitable, especially because marines are so small that it eats up Colossus splash. The way I see it, Marauders are the biggest problem with T > P early game. They could use a heavy nerf. (Perhaps 50% reduction in CS's slow or a cooldown) Just making it so that you require a factory or something for concussive would make early game would be 100% fine imo.
No, it would not - it would make proxy gate builds impossible to defend ;/ Marauders are actually completely useless vs stalkers until you have concussive, because the P can fight until his shields are gone and then run away.
On October 28 2010 19:45 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:32 lastmotion wrote:
I refuse to believe that P > T late game, even with Colossus. Terran needs to find different unit combination and stop using T1 units against Protoss's T3 units. Of course T1 is not supposed to take down T3 units. A more Mech army with marauders seems more suitable, especially because marines are so small that it eats up Colossus splash. I also have a hard time believing this - we've seen protoss use carriers in lategame vs terran WAY more often than terran use battlecruisers; why? there is simply no way, terran could convince me that BCs are "harder" to get; and when protoss goes for chargelots/HTs, BCs counter this hard; if protoss switches back to more stalkers, then marauders/tanks will do better; also, very few terrans make effective use of ravens; protoss pretty much uses ALL his units vs terran throughout the game - zealots/stalker/sentry/immortal into colossi, then tech-switch to chargelots/HTs, very lategame into carriers; terran most of the time stubbornly refuses any tech-switch vs protoss...like....at all; all you read is blah P>T lategame; yeah tanks die vs charge-lots...but nobody says terran should produce "mass"-tanks? also I've lost some games because terran added some blue-flame hellions and did ridiculous damage vs my chargelots because I couldn't "prevent" the charge - again: charge working against protoss; and hellions are super-easy to afford later on but guess what - terrans prefer to lift the factory off and scout with it....I mean, how can you argue imbalance when some terrans even refuse to make factory-units throughout the whole game? when protoss on the other hand produces basicly every unit they have?
Here is why you dont see BCs, Ravens, Banshees or any other unit with mana:
Feedback. Ravens are amazingly good up until they start dying as soon as the protoss sees them.
Also, carriers are far superior to BCs in this matchup, vikings are a complete joke vs them, as are pretty much every other terran anti-air option save for turrets really.
Hellions are nice, but zealots are not the problem for terran.
On October 28 2010 11:15 Blacklizard wrote:
While I can see why Blizz is coming to the TvP conclusions that they are, I'm not convinced that late game storm is OP. There are a lot of options late game to be explored, and while warp-in amulet storm is powerful vs bio (mostly marines)... what if Terrans can find builds and compositions that aren't vulnerable to storm late game?
Seems to me that either ghosts or banshess plus observer hunting has potential. What does it take, 3 vikings to one shot an observer? Also PDD + drops or PDD + banshee(s) vs workers would seem excellent if it could be squeezed in once Protoss start cannon defending. You can spot observers along the way or know if your harass would be a surprise. PDD protects from warped in stalkers or cannons.
And in a tight busy match (read no cannons made yet), one banshee even without cloak in a base during a small battle can be game changing.
Also I like Loner's play. Banshee harass worked out great for him in a lot of recent matches vs P. Ghosts. I liked his attempt at tank + bunker slow push in that one Xel'Naga Caverns but he got overzealous (moved up too soon) and Genius performed a really nicely timed warp-prism drop flank that I doubt many others could repeat.
Anyway, early game there aren't so many options. Late game, there are potentially many.
And really, since Voidrays are basically a tiny threat now, Terran should explore more tech options. I think recent pro play is just reflecting the knowledge that early bio is the best early option, so many are all going bio then don't transition. Loner being the biggest exception from what I've seen.
Given time, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Nada go for a heavy mech style. Or someone like Boxer develop some excellent harass and micro-defense vs storm late game vs P.
And last, this sounds crazy, but has anybody tried semi late game bunker pushes or just take middle defense with the upgraded bunkers? With upgraded bunkers (6 marines or 4 marines + 1 marauder) you have more damage that you can stim and focus fire attacks at the bunker level... backed by tanks/banshee vs stalkers/colossi... I dunno it seems like it'd have potential.
In my opinion, if all protoss had late-game was storm, the matchup would be either fine or T favored - the problem is when P can afford colossi/storm, then T is just fucked. Completely and utterly fucked :/
Vs only HT you dont need to waste money (and starport production time that could be used to replace the medivacs you inevitably lost in the last battle now that they are slow as fuck) on vikings, and you can actually micro against storm. In addition, ghosts are every bit as good as HTs making the matchup fair imo.
Then you add colossus and it all breaks.
I dont think mech is good on most maps because its just too immobile, has no map control features (spider mines are gone), is too gas heavy (tanks and emp and vikings), and is only good in HUGE fights.
Mech is nothing like in SC1 where small parts of your army can still be effective when faced with a bigger force, you either keep your army together or it dies.
Yes, if you have 200/200 worth of tank hellion there is nothing on the ground that is going to kill this, but toss 1) doesnt have to fight you 2) doesnt have to build ground units.
Carriers are ridic vs mech too, btw.
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I don't understand why they would say stim reduces the life span of the marauder. Could they get more obvious? That's why you get medivacs.. hmm.. It seems as thought they just want to avoid that subject.
I'de like to see marauder stim + concussive nerfed but then some changes to terran late game to make them stronger with that being their main weakness.
I don't think someone should rely on t1 units the WHOLE game. Zerg get ultras.. protoss get Colossus or storm.. terran just get MMM. All game. This game is focused on economy (which leads to late game) but terran gameplay is only focused on early game / early game units (= not economy). Know what I'm sayin?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 28 2010 20:37 Zythian wrote:
I don't understand why they would say stim reduces the life span of the marauder. Could they get more obvious? That's why you get medivacs.. hmm.. It seems as thought they just want to avoid that subject.
I'de like to see marauder stim + concussive nerfed but then some changes to terran late game to make them stronger with that being their main weakness.
I don't think someone should rely on t1 units the WHOLE game. Zerg get ultras.. protoss get Colossus or storm.. terran just get MMM. All game. This game is focused on economy (which leads to late game) but terran gameplay is only focused on early game / early game units (= not economy). Know what I'm sayin?
There really is nothing else worth making... In some cases siege tanks, maybe =/ Believe me, I dont actually WANT to play marine marauder ghost viking for 50 minutes vs colossus/ht -.-
EDIT: Actually I guess we are saying the same thing here.
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I don't know if this has been said yet, but THORS! These things are cost effective against everything the protoss has except maybe void rays and after the void ray nerf I don't think they are that good against them especially with vikings and/or marines to support.
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On October 28 2010 20:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
No, it would not - it would make proxy gate builds impossible to defend ;/ Marauders are actually completely useless vs stalkers until you have concussive, because the P can fight until his shields are gone and then run away.
Wouldn't stim fix this problem? If the marauders stim when the stalkers turn to run, they'll be faster.
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On October 28 2010 20:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Here is why you dont see BCs, Ravens, Banshees or any other unit with mana:
Feedback. Ravens are amazingly good up until they start dying as soon as the protoss sees them.
Also, carriers are far superior to BCs in this matchup, vikings are a complete joke vs them, as are pretty much every other terran anti-air option save for turrets really.
agree, feedback is awsome - nevertheless feedback does actually very little damage to BCs if they don't "save energy up", I would go so far and say it's not really worth it compared to the possibly "lost" storm
as far as carriers go, I've seen some socke-games where his carriers die insanely fast when EMPed; probably the game hasn't been developed in lategame enough, but imo EMP is amazing vs protoss air, can really shut carriers down since they are impossible to "save" vs vikings after EMP
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Recently i switched to T, after having PvT as my best matchup and faring well vs 1.8-2.1k players on EU
Fair enough to say, i dont really care who they buff or nerf, ill just play the race that is better, and thats terran right now.
The only race that has remotely difficult mechanics are zerg so its not like its hard to learn both races
my personal opinion is that TvP is basically in the terrans favour most of the game and then evens out VERY late, and then slight advantage for protoss when you get to end, end game colossi AND tempar
The problem is that if you play terran and fail to do some kind of game winning advantage before 30 minutes into the game, you've basically failed as terran... there are SO many tools to cripple protoss before then, with such a large variety of builds
I actually think that FE'ing as terran can be a mistake a lot of the time, it is definately correct on a lot of maps depending on rush distances (ironically, the closer the rush distance, the better a 2 rax FE is) - yet it seems every 2k terran is completely addicted to the build because it has no weaknesses.
Why FE as a terran when you can 1 base on certain maps and completely crush a protoss expand before 10 minutes? I don't buy the KCDC bs, after playing hundreds and hundreds of games on both sides, i know exactly how to dismantle a 1 gate FE like that with late pushes due to protoss tech being behind - protoss willl alwatys lose a straight up fight with colossi or templar, and thus FE gives you a HUGE window to build a tech adv as terran and then crush protoss before he gets either just from 1 base of units.
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On October 27 2010 23:54 KaiserJohan wrote:
It's like T players telling Z players to "use ur tech, nydus moar" when Z get crushed by a T ball.
P telling T to use their tech; have you ever played or seen a TvP? Compare the impact 6 colossus have to 6 thors.
Show replays where T uses a high-tech army like alot of BC/Thors/banshee/Ghost/tanks and actually outright wins in a 200/200 battle, I'd be suprised if P ever went below 100 supply.
T is OP first 12 mins, midgame balanced, then P is OP. That really feels like an accurate description; question would be how to P's early and T's late without affecting the Z matchups. (although some early buff to P would certainly help against the roach buff)
(imho 250mm cannons into 9 range is one good option....)
I've been saying this over and over since beta. T was OP early game and UP late game. The fact the maps are so small and that T had a good early game (esp compared to Z) was masking the fact that T late game is terrible. I'm glad it's being recognized that TvP is NOT balanced and never has been. Hopefully ZvT starts to get the same recognition now that T early game is crippled.
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On October 29 2010 00:09 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 23:54 KaiserJohan wrote:
It's like T players telling Z players to "use ur tech, nydus moar" when Z get crushed by a T ball.
P telling T to use their tech; have you ever played or seen a TvP? Compare the impact 6 colossus have to 6 thors.
Show replays where T uses a high-tech army like alot of BC/Thors/banshee/Ghost/tanks and actually outright wins in a 200/200 battle, I'd be suprised if P ever went below 100 supply.
T is OP first 12 mins, midgame balanced, then P is OP. That really feels like an accurate description; question would be how to P's early and T's late without affecting the Z matchups. (although some early buff to P would certainly help against the roach buff)
(imho 250mm cannons into 9 range is one good option....) I've been saying this over and over since beta. T was OP early game and UP late game. The fact the maps are so small and that T had a good early game (esp compared to Z) was masking the fact that T late game is terrible. I'm glad it's being recognized that TvP is NOT balanced and never has been. Hopefully ZvT starts to get the same recognition now that T early game is crippled.
First, read my post and other people's posts up there.
T > Z still in early game. The supply before rax change only made sure T can't be aggressive in the very beginning; they can still be aggressive before Z reaches lair tech and that requirement is nullified if T also chooses a more macro-orientated game, like expo earlier.
Z was never > T late game. Yes Ultras + Broods are devastating but it still dies to Terran 200/200 mech army. The only reason why people view late game Z as overpowered was because early + mid game Z was so underpowered that when Ultras + Broods came out, they noticed the huge difference in power-up from Zerg. No, hive tech for Z only makes ZvT balanced again.
What other significant changes were there in ZvT? Roach 1 range increase? Roaches are still roasted by Marauders + Tanks, that 1 range increase affected a lot more in ZvP than ZvT. Stop over-exaggerating. Those 2 last patches barely touched on the main issues (MULE, Marauders, PFs, Repair rate, Turrets, etc.)
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EPT
