EPTP feels much like Z at that point, thats an issue as well
Blizzcon, Multipayer Panel-Blizzard's view of PvT - Page 10
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Friend23
Poland270 Posts
P feels much like Z at that point, thats an issue as well | ||
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Dreadwolf
Canada220 Posts
On October 27 2010 02:45 ZeGzoR wrote: The problem isnt that Ghost doesnt counter HTs, its that p can warp in storm on demand. The protoss could indeed warp ht on demand, and maka Marauders medevacs ghosts still dominated him. An emp on a templar is just has good has killing him on short term, it cannot do anything. By keeping the army count low ghost are much more effective too since its easier to emp a bigger fraction of his army with fewer ghost. | ||
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Friend23
Poland270 Posts
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Friend23
Poland270 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:33 DarkMoon wrote: My bad. I was going pretty much from memory at that point haha, didn't realize it was up on youtube already  Time to edit my post so I don't look like an idiot. yeah and few moments after they say that korean diamond it is 40% for P 60% for T | ||
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eLFootman
Chile58 Posts
in mid game, everything looks fine, this is mostly because players had found a "balance" in their back and forth. Here the balance is in the players, not in the game itself. in late game I'd again try to hinder the "all-in attack move", how? I haven't thought about that. I'd reduce the supply of those 6-supply units to 5, and those 3-supply to 2 (and make banshee armored, cheaper and way weaker damage-wise) IMHO | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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zomgad
185 Posts
On October 27 2010 06:47 Cloak wrote: Well whenever Blizzard says they're keeping an eye on some Protoss unit (HTs this week), that means it's going to get nerfed, no questions asked. The only thing to debate now is how badly Protoss'll take it up the ass. Coconut or Pineapple? most likely terrans bio will also take a hit question is if both races will be nerfed how much higher winrate of zergs will be now ~~ (hard to imagine more tvz rape than now but guess its comming) | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 27 2010 06:47 Cloak wrote: Well whenever Blizzard says they're keeping an eye on some Protoss unit (HTs this week), that means it's going to get nerfed, no questions asked. The only thing to debate now is how badly Protoss'll take it up the ass. Coconut or Pineapple? I don't know the both sound horrifying but I think Pineapple would hurt more due to its spiky nature | ||
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smallerk
897 Posts
On October 27 2010 06:47 Cloak wrote: Well whenever Blizzard says they're keeping an eye on some Protoss unit (HTs this week), that means it's going to get nerfed, no questions asked. The only thing to debate now is how badly Protoss'll take it up the ass. Coconut or Pineapple? Definetly coconut, soft but effective. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On October 27 2010 03:22 Friend23 wrote: another thing is that P will never win a 200/200 battle against T no matter what, however if it happens to be a macro game with 200/200, P has much faster production time due to gateways ??? The exact opposite is much closer to reality. If P has either colossus/stalker against a T without many vikings or immortal/templar/stalker/zealot against a T who produces enough vikings to make colossi ineffective, a protoss 200/200 will absolutely wreck a T 200/200 army. Unless T gets perfect EMPS, protoss usually crushes late game, and can reinforce much faster. This isn't even taking into account carriers, which are absolutely brutal late game if P manages to get them. | ||
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Zrah
Lithuania55 Posts
On October 27 2010 07:27 PJA wrote: ??? The exact opposite is much closer to reality. If P has either colossus/stalker against a T without many vikings or immortal/templar/stalker/zealot against a T who produces enough vikings to make colossi ineffective, a protoss 200/200 will absolutely wreck a T 200/200 army. Unless T gets perfect EMPS, protoss usually crushes late game, and can reinforce much faster. This isn't even taking into account carriers, which are absolutely brutal late game if P manages to get them. Vikings, Siege tanks, collosus is out of the picture, just siege move the Protoss and he won't stand a chance. Late game Terran can tear Protoss to pieces if he moves away from pure mmm, Tanks, Ravens, Ghosts all are a bane to protoss army, i have seen BC with Marauders on ground for later game T. Since only ground that can do something is stalker and maras rape em. Templars are strong only until mid-high diamond versus terran, at top diamond templars get torn by pro microed ghosts. | ||
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Reborn58
United States238 Posts
If they tech'd up like Protoss and Zerg do I think they would be fine, Ghosts/ Thors /BC/Raven can do work in late game, but Terran never seems to want to abandon their original build. You never see a Toss go 4 gate into 7 gate into 10 gate and expect to win at the 30 minute mark with all stalkers and zealots (no matter how upgraded). Same goes for zerg. I play Toss and SOOOOOO many Terrans never end up even getting a single ghost or Thor against me unless they are Thor rushing or doing an early timing push with a ghost. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On October 27 2010 07:47 Zrah wrote: Vikings, Siege tanks, collosus is out of the picture, just siege move the Protoss and he won't stand a chance. Late game Terran can tear Protoss to pieces if he moves away from pure mmm, Tanks, Ravens, Ghosts all are a bane to protoss army, i have seen BC with Marauders on ground for later game T. Since only ground that can do something is stalker and maras rape em. Okay, but have you actually watched any high level PvT games? When you say things like "just siege move the protoss and he won't stand a chance" and "i have seen BC with marauders on ground for later game T," you're not exactly making it easy for me to take you seriously. The only map where siege is even close to OP against protoss is steppes of war, and that's more of a middle game concern. It can be very annoying on metal as well, but that's mostly just for controlling the center gold expansions. As for BC/marauder, I haven't really seen that be effective in any recent games. Watch, for example, NEXGenius' PvT. At blizzcon, most of the games he loses are from either a) attemping a cheesy DT rush, b) losing to a timing attack after 1 gate expanding or c) never switching out of colossus 25 minutes into the game. And even in other games where he sticks with pure stalker/colossus against marauder/medivac/viking, he manages to win. Games where he actually transitioned to HT, he absolutely crushed, like one of his games on scrap station against loner. There's a reason SeleCT had to abuse medivac drops heavily to do well at MLG, QXC abused drops so heavily in NY, and why none of the other terrans did very well against HuK or KiWiKaKi. The only way for terran to do well against protoss currently is with early aggression or harassment all over the place, because late game they get steamrolled and it's not even close. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Right now, in PvP, they have no counter (although I'm trying VR-oriented builds after the patch, they are not nearly reliabe), so the MU degrades to colossi wars. In PvT in PvZ the only thing that balances them out are air units designed specifically to counter them. This leads to stupid plays revolving around using vikings to kill the colossi before they obliterate your ground army. Seriously, if not for colossi, nothing would ever justify a range 9 air superiority fighter. I feel that all protoss MU's are revolving around this unit on both the protoss and the opponent size. Colossi were meant as an exciting replacement for Reavers, but Reavers had atrocious scalability. Slow projectile travel time, crawling speed and enormous amount of overkill made them useless en masse, but very good as sniper units in small skirmishes. Colossi, on the other hand, are VERY massable, even though they deal way less raw damage. Continuing on the subject, the scalability and automatic targeting for Reavers made them a completely different tech choice than HT. They were essentially doing very different things, while Colossi and HT in SC2 are largely competing (with Colossi winning, I've yet to see a 1.2 patch replay with anyone not going colossi first, regardless of the matchup). As a side effect, protoss early-mid game has taken a severe hit since they don't have anything to harass with. Prisms are just as good as shuttles were, but you have literally nothing to drop. There's no wonder protoss is weak in early game and strong in late. Another thing that bothers me the most is the early availability of Concussive shells. I don't for once think the ability is too strong on it's own, call it a racial feature. But even though I have a fast harass-oriented unit at the start of the game, I cannot use it. Almost no protosses open offensively in PvT now, you just build your units and stay at base until you have an observer. Why? Because there is a possibility that terran goes fast concussive. Unlike BW, where it was common to probe the terran wall with your first goon, you cannot do it because you won't be able to run away. I would want to do something else than fast expo in PvT but I cannot, both because of early reaper threat (1 stalker stays at base) and because of the possibility of encountering a mass build with concussive at his ramp and losing all my stalkers there, sealing the game. I do not see any reasons in TvP, TvZ or TvT to push the concussive shells upgrade further in the tech tree. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
many times charge even works against protoss because the slow ball (stalker/sentry slowed down by colossi) can't keep up with chargelots; chargelots charge in, get kited and die before colossi even get in range; nowadays I manually micro my chargelots with move-command-spam to avoid the charge-in; charge is really only doing well if you let two armies a-move against each other | ||
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
Maybe charge could reset when hit by a conc shell? Makes zealots unkitable by Marauders  | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
In a few select cases I have toyed with only stimming my marines and just leaving the maurader's non stimmed and just try to use the concussive kiting (non stimmed) to the best of my abillity | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 27 2010 23:24 Knee_of_Justice wrote: Just chargelots will be kited but when you have storm colossi and forcefield, it becomes awesome. FF stops maras from kiting left and right, and even if u mess up, the colossi get hits in which is what your zealots are there for. Storm just annihilates him if he's sloppy or you're good at predicting. Maybe charge could reset when hit by a conc shell? Makes zealots unkitable by Marauders I think it'd be cool if Zealots took reduced damage during charging, and have a buff that increase his damage of his next 2 hits everytime it charges | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
P telling T to use their tech; have you ever played or seen a TvP? Compare the impact 6 colossus have to 6 thors. Show replays where T uses a high-tech army like alot of BC/Thors/banshee/Ghost/tanks and actually outright wins in a 200/200 battle, I'd be suprised if P ever went below 100 supply. T is OP first 12 mins, midgame balanced, then P is OP. That really feels like an accurate description; question would be how to P's early and T's late without affecting the Z matchups. (although some early buff to P would certainly help against the roach buff) (imho 250mm cannons into 9 range is one good option....) | ||
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