EPTVoid Ray & Battlecruiser testing post patch 1.1.2 - Page 2
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Kazang
578 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I think people were referring to actual armies where the Terran had added BC's. I expect Protoss will struggle pretty badly there due to Vikings, Marines and Medivacs. If you can find a combo that works well I'd certainly like to know what it is. I wonder how an upgraded Gateway army + HTs would do. Feedback puts a sizable hole in BCs and either kills Medivacs or renders them useless, Storm devastates mass bio. Guardian shield + Blink Stalkers makes them very cost effective against BCs. Chargelots chew through bioballs pretty well. Forcefield can screw with their positioning and allow Blink Stalkers to get into a good position to attack the BCs. It seems like upgraded Gateway army + HTs has potentially all the tools one would need to bring down a Battlecruiser + MMM army. The key would be having enough energy in your sentries and HTs, and using your spells really well--one feedback when you should have stormed, or forcefield when you'd have been better off with a guardian shield, could really screw you. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
what toss needs is for blizz to release the Scout for multiplayer as it would be that instant "high" dmg anti armoured flyer that toss needs to change PvP away from colossi power strugle along with providing an actual counter to viking, BC and coruptors Please don't bring back the Scout. Even if it was made viable, it is still a joke of unit. Not cool at all, not interesting at all. If Voids were given their 7 range back, they could kite BCs, which would mean that as long as you had more Voids then they had uses of Yamato Cannon, Voids would counter them, albeit fairly slowly. | ||
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Plethoric
United States57 Posts
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Drathmar
United States160 Posts
Maybe even nerf phoenix damage a bit. That way they would be able to still take out light air units (muta mostly, through micro even with damage nerf) still have a place with GB by taking important units (Siege tanks/infestors/etc) out of the fight, or supporting an army with more damage, and VR's would become a true counter to non-light air. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On October 16 2010 00:02 Snowfield wrote: What if every BC has a yamato readY? But yeah, cool and all, but no one ever sends 1->10 BCs into anything on their own Yes, this is the limitation of this kind of unit testing I was talking about. But ... why do you guys assume that the Void Rays and Stalkers will be on their own then? I was mainly concerned with the two issues here: 1. The claim that post-patch VRs are too weak to deal with BCs and 2. The question what Protoss has in its arsenal to counter BCs. So saying that the BCs will have ground support misses the point, since ground support is a tactical issue that has nothing to do with the patch and Void Ray nerf. I was testing the variables that were changed, ie. damage output of units. When I say "Stalkers can do XY" I'm obviously not implying that Stalkers will be able to freely wander around the map as they please in all situations. | ||
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Zihn
Denmark50 Posts
On October 16 2010 00:15 awesomoecalypse wrote: I wonder how an upgraded Gateway army + HTs would do. Feedback puts a sizable hole in BCs and either kills Medivacs or renders them useless, Storm devastates mass bio. Guardian shield + Blink Stalkers makes them very cost effective against BCs. Chargelots chew through bioballs pretty well. Forcefield can screw with their positioning and allow Blink Stalkers to get into a good position to attack the BCs. It seems like upgraded Gateway army + HTs has potentially all the tools one would need to bring down a Battlecruiser + MMM army. The key would be having enough energy in your sentries and HTs, and using your spells really well--one feedback when you should have stormed, or forcefield when you'd have been better off with a guardian shield, could really screw you. A pure BC army can easily be countered by going a mix of Sentry, Stalker, HT or in other tearms a mixed army of ground units. The problem is that if toss goes air both terran and zerg can counter it with either ground or air whatever fits they mood the best, however if zerg og terran goes air your prety mutch forced to counter it with ground with the exception of mutas. And yes you can trade phoenixes with vikings but thats just trading not countering but nonetheless effective to help keep vikings off your colossi | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
vr = 250/150 / 60 sec / 3 food 2 vrs > bc 500/300 / 120 sec > 400/300 / 90 seconds I fail too see the bad deal about it ... | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
The problem is that if toss goes air both terran and zerg can counter it with either ground or air whatever fits they mood the best, however if zerg og terran goes air your prety mutch forced to counter it with ground with the exception of mutas. And yes you can trade phoenixes with vikings but thats just trading not countering but nonetheless effective to help keep vikings off your colossi This is true. However, there is sort of an opposite equivalent, which is the Colossus. If a Toss player builds Colossi, Terran and Zerg *have* to go air, as once there are more than 5 Colossi with the range upgrade, essentially everything on the ground is instantly melted, especially if the Toss also builds Chargelots to deal with Terran mech. Terran and Zerg don't have a ground equivalent that forces Toss to go air. Every ground unit in their arsenal can be beaten by the right Toss ground unit. Simply put, Toss are more dominant on the ground, but lose out by being relatively weak in the air. Which is kinda funny, because in BW it was the opposite--Toss were the kings of the skies. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
unless the Terran SOmehow got like a mass of battlecruisers but you shouldnt of let that happen! not many ppl ever even got to get upgraded voids in the first place.. i saw it maybe 1 out of every 100 TVPs | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
stalker + ht is all you really need. the nice thing about this is you'll almost certainly have leftover minerals, which you can dump into chargelots, who kick ass against the bio army Terrans use to supplement BCs | ||
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Pandonetho
Canada321 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
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nomel
115 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Thanks for the interesting thread. I would like to note the importance of charging the VRs before going into battle, especially after the latest patch (1.1.2). I imagine the results would be quite different. I assume no charging was done before going into battle in this test. This is a good point. Even though it was substantially nerfed, precharging still gives a huge boost to VR effectiveness. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
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Artifice
United States523 Posts
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pathy
Taiwan619 Posts
On October 16 2010 01:51 Artifice wrote: One carrier can kill infinity battlecruisers without taking any damage. That's a pretty hard counter if you ask me. uhh...against an ai, but certainly not against a human player | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
On October 16 2010 01:51 Artifice wrote: One carrier can kill infinity battlecruisers without taking any damage. That's a pretty hard counter if you ask me. The beam has 10 range+ up to 20 during anim time vs the 8 range to unload interceptors | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
what about ghost using EMP on templar what about colossus killing ghost what about vikings killing colossus. etc | ||
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