• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:45
CEST 12:45
KST 19:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week1[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation14$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL67
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 1 - Final Week Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 613 users

If SC2 has a 10 year run,will it be as good as BW? - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Parodoxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States549 Posts
October 07 2010 06:19 GMT
#21
I felt the same way about sc2 for a long time but after watching Cool (aka fruitdealer) in the GSL I felt like I was watching one of the jaedong vs flash finals always on the edge of my seat just getting amazed again and again. For that reason I dont think the game will take 10 years to get its respect just a little more balance and of course its completion with the release of the 2 other expansions.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
October 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#22
On October 07 2010 14:34 DonKey_ wrote:
honestly, even though sc2 in its current state may not be anywhere near as "competitive or balanced" as BW, it has been received sooooo much better among the casual audience in the U.S and Europe than BW ever was, which is a good sign so long as that casual audience doesn't lose interest.

this is solely because world of warcraft boosted blizzards profile so much amongst casuals
now many have moved on to the next blizzard game , once diablo 3 comes out some will shift over to that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
October 07 2010 06:26 GMT
#23
On October 07 2010 14:34 DonKey_ wrote:
honestly, even though sc2 in its current state may not be anywhere near as "competitive or balanced" as BW, it has been received sooooo much better among the casual audience in the U.S and Europe than BW ever was, which is a good sign so long as that casual audience doesn't lose interest.


don't casuals lose interest innately? isn't that the reasoning behind the word casual?
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
October 07 2010 06:30 GMT
#24
Yeah, in my view they do. A lot of SC2 players have played SC1, but they stopped over time. They will probably do the same with SC2. If you guys watch StarCraft 2 midnight release videos on YouTube, a ton of people made comments in the video on how they've been waiting for years for this game since they stopped playing the first. It's either that comment, or "I stopped playing the first years ago and haven't touched it in a while because of the graphics".
shynee
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada180 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 06:33:10
October 07 2010 06:31 GMT
#25
On October 07 2010 14:22 StarcraftMan wrote:
SC2 still has trouble garnering the proper respect from hard core BW players. BW players continually point to SC2's lack of balance, easier mechanics, etc, as reasons why SC2 is inferior to BW.

So what will it take for SC2 to be considered on par with BW? Will it take a a 10+ year run, with almost perfect balance, and a comparable professional E-Sports scene to BW Pro League for the hard core BW players to finally acknowledge SC2 is on par with BW?



Do you remember sc1 when it first came out? Do you remember that psi storm did something like 150 dmg?

Who knows if it will do well. I personally think it will, especially with 2 expansions which will allow the development of new strategies.

But honestly why ask such a broad and vague "what if" question? What if the sun exploded tomorrow?
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
October 07 2010 06:32 GMT
#26
On October 07 2010 15:30 zoLo wrote:
Yeah, in my view they do. A lot of SC2 players have played SC1, but they stopped over time. They will probably do the same with SC2. If you guys watch StarCraft 2 midnight release videos on YouTube, a ton of people made comments in the video on how they've been waiting for years for this game since they stopped playing the first. It's either that comment, or "I stopped playing the first years ago and haven't touched it in a while because of the graphics".


besides the fact that its an RTS which has such strange replayabillity, especial when western audiences largely prefer MMO's and FPS's

blizzard needs to have a plan for the future. get sales from casuals, once they're gone, hit the hardcores. unfortunately their plan seems to be "RELEASE THE GAME 3 TIMES MUAHAHAHAH"
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Jacuzzi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States528 Posts
October 07 2010 06:36 GMT
#27
I really fucking hate how people bash SC2 for being "too easy". It's a MODERN game. This is 2010. RTS games now have things like rally points and unlimited sized control groups. I didn't get a chance to play SC1 until about 2003, and it felt dated as hell even way back then. That was back when there was command and conquer and warcraft 3, which were more new player friendly because of said mechanics. BW is pretty awesome to watch nonetheless, just not something I would have wanted to get into playing since I couldn't play it in 1998 (not because I was too young, my family didn't really let me play PC games).
GoDannY
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany442 Posts
October 07 2010 06:41 GMT
#28
I think the game can be as good as BW in a couple of years and will not loose interest too much in the near future. Of course a lot will jump off - the casuals - and move to the next game, but thats just normal and happens to every other multiplayer game anyway. Though the fanbase will increase a lot considered to BW especially in the esports scene - I think.
Team LifeStyle - it's more than a game
IronMonocle
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada142 Posts
October 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#29
I for one hope SC2 doesn't last as long as sc1. I would hope that in half that time there would be a new and equally skillful RTS on the market, perhaps an original title with amazing and effective innovations.
My armor is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred.
BentoBox
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada303 Posts
October 07 2010 07:00 GMT
#30
On October 07 2010 15:36 Jacuzzi wrote:
I really fucking hate how people bash SC2 for being "too easy". It's a MODERN game. This is 2010. RTS games now have things like rally points and unlimited sized control groups. I didn't get a chance to play SC1 until about 2003, and it felt dated as hell even way back then. That was back when there was command and conquer and warcraft 3, which were more new player friendly because of said mechanics. BW is pretty awesome to watch nonetheless, just not something I would have wanted to get into playing since I couldn't play it in 1998 (not because I was too young, my family didn't really let me play PC games).


There does not need to be a direct correlation between modernity and spoon feeding. There is nothing inherently wrong in wanting players to have their efforts compensated proportionally to their technical skill and wit. It is meant to be a competitive game after all.

In the end, I don't know if it will ever be the better game but I think it will remain successful as long as Blizzard doesn't doze off.

Just like BW, Melee was a competitive success out of sheer luck and its successor, Brawl, did not manage to live up to the expectations because everything was made easier for the players. Many tried to argue that it puts the core of the game (i.e. mindgames and strategy) at the forefront instead of valuing constant button presses to do anything, and thus provided for a more exciting game because professional piano players and mechanics would be on an even footing, thus providing for a faster developing metagame and exciting strats should be fleshed out every other day.

But it just wasn't the case in the end. You don't add variety by removing options from the player. The game finally turned into a pile of trash where camping/turtling is encouraged because of lack of said options which were present in the predecessor.

Streetfighter 4 also came out last year, and while this game wasn't nearly as bad of a sequel, it still made a lot of things easier for the newer player. Reversal windows were made bigger which means that any Ryu/Ken can simply mash dragon punch during blockstrings and get free damage if your opponent happened to miss a one frame link. Using reversals properly was actually a skill to be acquired back in SF2. Now I can play against a random noob and I still have to respect him when pressuring him because it is so easy for him to turn the tide against me if I happen to slip up just once. Add to that many other factors (e.g. ultras, dive kick characters) and you have a game whose pace became a lot slower compared to the previous SFs causing for an overall more stale experience.

Both aforementioned games were still successes if only because of the newer generations that flocked in the respective communities. But they weren't better games.

At the moment, I think the same applies to SC2. At least, until someone becomes consistent enough in his winnings to make us take a second look at what exactly can be achieved if you happened to, say, be gifted with Nada's hands.
Only dead fish swim with the stream
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 07 2010 07:06 GMT
#31
This thread should be closed purely for its title.

"will it be as good as BW", implying that its not already.

That really pisses me off. I'm tired of the SC2 vs BW discussions, they're different games. If you prefer BW, thats great, play that.

Why does one have to be better than the other? Elitist attitudes get noone anywhere, if you don't like a game don't play it. There is place in this world for both games to thrive imo.

Even right now, we have the GSL and we still have competitive BW living side-by-side in Korea.
Selith
Profile Joined September 2010
United States238 Posts
October 07 2010 07:08 GMT
#32
Comparing a game that's not even a year old to a game that's matured over a decade is kind of silly, isn't it?
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
October 07 2010 07:11 GMT
#33
I don't get this with skill cap has to be higher. If the current level is so that non-koreans can compete isn't that better for the overall game ? The overall market ?
Dead girls don't say no.
shinarit
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary900 Posts
October 07 2010 07:14 GMT
#34
There are much more complex, higher skill-capped games out there than BW. So thats not a real factor...
T for BoxeR, Z for IdrA, P because i have no self-respect
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2585 Posts
October 07 2010 07:15 GMT
#35
Depends on the skill ceiling most definitely; and the ability for the progamers and Blizzard to keep things fresh - mostly OMGWTF moments. and Would pro matches still look the same 2 years from now (assuming HOTS has not yet been released) and if so, different enough?
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
john0507
Profile Joined August 2010
164 Posts
October 07 2010 07:53 GMT
#36
I don't get why this thread is here in the first place.

People need to stick it in their narrow mind , that THESE ARE 2 DIFFERENT GAMES.
If you like the old BW that much , go play it.
If you like the new SC2 , then go play it.
As long as you are having fun playing it , no one cares.

Which game will go on bigger on a competitive scene more or less has nothing to do with players at all.
They're all in the hands of corporate sponsors and organizers.
Parodoxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States549 Posts
October 07 2010 07:58 GMT
#37
On October 07 2010 16:00 BentoBox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2010 15:36 Jacuzzi wrote:
I really fucking hate how people bash SC2 for being "too easy". It's a MODERN game. This is 2010. RTS games now have things like rally points and unlimited sized control groups. I didn't get a chance to play SC1 until about 2003, and it felt dated as hell even way back then. That was back when there was command and conquer and warcraft 3, which were more new player friendly because of said mechanics. BW is pretty awesome to watch nonetheless, just not something I would have wanted to get into playing since I couldn't play it in 1998 (not because I was too young, my family didn't really let me play PC games).


There does not need to be a direct correlation between modernity and spoon feeding. There is nothing inherently wrong in wanting players to have their efforts compensated proportionally to their technical skill and wit. It is meant to be a competitive game after all.

In the end, I don't know if it will ever be the better game but I think it will remain successful as long as Blizzard doesn't doze off.

Just like BW, Melee was a competitive success out of sheer luck and its successor, Brawl, did not manage to live up to the expectations because everything was made easier for the players. Many tried to argue that it puts the core of the game (i.e. mindgames and strategy) at the forefront instead of valuing constant button presses to do anything, and thus provided for a more exciting game because professional piano players and mechanics would be on an even footing, thus providing for a faster developing metagame and exciting strats should be fleshed out every other day.

But it just wasn't the case in the end. You don't add variety by removing options from the player. The game finally turned into a pile of trash where camping/turtling is encouraged because of lack of said options which were present in the predecessor.

Streetfighter 4 also came out last year, and while this game wasn't nearly as bad of a sequel, it still made a lot of things easier for the newer player. Reversal windows were made bigger which means that any Ryu/Ken can simply mash dragon punch during blockstrings and get free damage if your opponent happened to miss a one frame link. Using reversals properly was actually a skill to be acquired back in SF2. Now I can play against a random noob and I still have to respect him when pressuring him because it is so easy for him to turn the tide against me if I happen to slip up just once. Add to that many other factors (e.g. ultras, dive kick characters) and you have a game whose pace became a lot slower compared to the previous SFs causing for an overall more stale experience.

Both aforementioned games were still successes if only because of the newer generations that flocked in the respective communities. But they weren't better games.

At the moment, I think the same applies to SC2. At least, until someone becomes consistent enough in his winnings to make us take a second look at what exactly can be achieved if you happened to, say, be gifted with Nada's hands.

Its really sad talking about melee vs brawl when I loved that game so much, until it was slowed down to such a point that I felt like I could play with one hand.. However even though a fighter can have depth its not on the same plain as an rts. I feel sc2 has enough depth and unit diversity to have a high skill cap and not to be like everyone else and say the games not finished its kinda true. Units are what really bring depth to the game and there are still units to be made.

I think the game has a chance if things that get discovered such as mineral boosting and fazing are not taken out as soon as they are placed in, it was those small things that made BW so amazing made melee so amazing and will make sc2 amazing its just blizzard who needs to see this.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17247 Posts
October 07 2010 08:04 GMT
#38
In order for SC2 to even have a "10 year run," it'll have to be on par with BW. No matter how much money you throw at something, it has to stand on its own to withstand the test of time.

It's a pointless question.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 08:11:03
October 07 2010 08:10 GMT
#39
It all depends on how Blizzard decides to handle it.

If things continue going the way they are now, I really doubt it will ever be as good as BW.

More popular, though, of course it will. There's a huge difference between making a good game, and making a game that appeals to a wide audience.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
October 07 2010 08:11 GMT
#40
I don't think the strategical depth is a problem. If theres a problem with sc2 its the mechanics are too easy. That's a design problem and no amount of years playing it will make it any harder. Perhaps zerg has difficult enough mechanics, both the other 2 races seem to be too simple for a lot of players.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 5
ByuN vs SHINLIVE!
Clem vs Reynor
Crank 1260
Tasteless781
ComeBackTV 605
IndyStarCraft 98
Rex98
3DClanTV 49
IntoTheiNu 35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1260
Tasteless 781
RotterdaM 155
Rex 98
IndyStarCraft 98
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 20625
Sea 16148
Rain 4447
Bisu 1986
Jaedong 892
Hyuk 733
Pusan 530
firebathero 369
actioN 283
Mini 271
[ Show more ]
Stork 263
Light 216
EffOrt 190
Backho 190
Zeus 180
Hyun 149
Soulkey 142
ToSsGirL 97
hero 91
Mind 55
JYJ36
sSak 35
JulyZerg 24
Aegong 22
NaDa 21
Sharp 21
Rush 20
Noble 18
Shinee 17
sorry 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Sacsri 15
Free 15
yabsab 13
IntoTheRainbow 10
Sexy 10
Hm[arnc] 9
SilentControl 8
Movie 5
ivOry 1
Dota 2
Gorgc6583
XaKoH 514
XcaliburYe278
League of Legends
singsing1321
JimRising 453
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss862
x6flipin307
allub230
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor163
Other Games
tarik_tv30054
shahzam678
crisheroes468
DeMusliM272
Fuzer 245
monkeys_forever181
Lowko152
Liquid`RaSZi146
SortOf84
Pyrionflax16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick25920
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 651
lovetv 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 47
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2117
League of Legends
• Stunt495
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 15m
Replay Cast
13h 15m
RSL Revival
23h 15m
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 5h
OSC
1d 9h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.