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On October 07 2010 11:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 11:53 Ketara wrote:
You need to give it a try.
There is nothing to be accomplished by us being furious if we're not making an attempt to discuss it with Blizzard.
I understand that it's a pretty pissy move. You've been trying to talk to them about it, done a lot of work, and they're all "lolol we'll just change two maps to other maps we've already made with no edits with no warning!"
It's kind of a dick move. But you still need to give discussing it with them a shot.
We're all behind you on it and will be like-ing/bumping the thread like crazy I'm sure. I will. Oh I agree. I am just trying to organize all my thoughts about the situation so I have a well thought out and convincing post. I really wish the OP for this thread had made polls about how people like/don't like the maps...
So you want polls for maps most havent played on ladder yet? Give it some time first....
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lol is blizzard serious or just trolling? did they seriously just pick 2 random OLD maps from the custom melee game pool and put it into the ladder? unbelievable....
sigh.... they are better then kulas and desert oasis tho i guess... altho it makes no sense for them to have added the dest rocks on oasis if it was going to be removed anyway. w/e. this is one of the reasons i stoped laddering.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
ok just played ~10 ladder games on the new maps (EU) and in every single one, the opposition cheesed. i think the combination of me playing random and the unfamiliar maps just scared them into 6pooling, proxy gating/raxing. so be on your guard folks!
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On October 07 2010 12:00 Ballistixz wrote:
lol is blizzard serious or just trolling? did they seriously just pick 2 random OLD maps from the custom melee game pool and put it into the ladder? unbelievable....
sigh.... they are better then kulas and desert oasis tho i guess... altho it makes no sense for them to have added the dest rocks on oasis if it was going to be removed anyway. w/e. this is one of the reasons i stoped laddering.
Nah Desert Oasis was a pretty good map compared to the new shit.
Even Kulas was better x.X
edit:
Seems to me Blizz dont want any Macro Play at all, just allin and 1 base play.
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Honestly I think this is a step in the right direction. They did target two of the most problematic maps.
We couldn't expect them to suddenly make a radical change in the type of map and add in ICCup material.
I would like some form of official statement regarding their choice (a little like the situation reports in Beta) and what we can expect in the future/what they are considering.
I don't dislike the two maps. A little afraid of the vertical spawn on the 4 player map but other than that they look interesting and definitely better than Kulas (and maybe DO, I never had a big problem with DO though).
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Great, give more maps with backdoor plz :s
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why does blizzard think 2 entrances into main is a good idea?
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Rofl, Terran can siege the opponents natural from his natural?
Well.. that's CLEARLY balanced. ^^
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I laff when 90% of this thread is trying to get BW maps converted, not understanding that we are talking about 2 completely different games.
I wonder when ppl will realize that they should stop trying to be nostalgic and be realistic. Bringing in BW maps, while cool, wouldn't help with game balance.
The BW maps you saw from proleague were designed for BW. With 100's of hours testing, they were made to be balanced. Some succeeded pretty well, others did not. Trying to toss away their research and jam their maps into this game is almost disrespectful to them.
Are new better maps needed? Yes. Should you cry for old iccup maps? No.
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Wrong. Old bw maps are a good new starting point. Noone says, that we should impede an evolution of that maps.
For future balance patches, it would have been vital to keep Desert Oasis in the map pool. The map statistics need to be monitored.
I've been telling this everyone since the release.
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On October 07 2010 12:02 Telcontar wrote:
ok just played ~10 ladder games on the new maps (EU) and in every single one, the opposition cheesed. i think the combination of me playing random and the unfamiliar maps just scared them into 6pooling, proxy gating/raxing. so be on your guard folks!
Honestly if Blizzard continues much longer with their current map pool, I am going to simply 6-pool every game on 2 player ladder maps (maybe not on Blistering Sands, if I could ever find a game on there).
I was practicing 6-pooling against very hard AI last night and it's really easy to do on the smaller maps.
Send all workers to work.
200 mins build pool
Build 2 more drones
When pool pops build 6 lings
Build Overlord
Pump lings until you have 150 minerals and no larva
Build Queen
If your opponent is not dead by this time spawn larva and pump lings.
Pylons/depots are your biggest priority targets.
Unless your opponent goes for early rax/pool/gate this should be plenty to win most of these short rush maps.
Obviously this is what Blizzard wants the game to be otherwise they would have given us longer rush distances and maps with more expansions.
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Any reports of people playing Shakuras 1v1 and actually spawning vertically?
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On October 07 2010 12:08 smegged wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 12:02 Telcontar wrote:
ok just played ~10 ladder games on the new maps (EU) and in every single one, the opposition cheesed. i think the combination of me playing random and the unfamiliar maps just scared them into 6pooling, proxy gating/raxing. so be on your guard folks! Honestly if Blizzard continues much longer with their current map pool, I am going to simply 6-pool every game on 2 player ladder maps (maybe not on Blistering Sands, if I could ever find a game on there). I was practicing 6-pooling against very hard AI last night and it's really easy to do on the smaller maps. Send all workers to work. 200 mins build pool Build 2 more drones When pool pops build 6 lings Build Overlord Pump lings until you have 150 minerals and no larva Build Queen If your opponent is not dead by this time spawn larva and pump lings. Pylons/depots are your biggest priority targets. Unless your opponent goes for early rax/pool/gate this should be plenty to win most of these short rush maps. Obviously this is what Blizzard wants the game to be otherwise they would have given us longer rush distances and maps with more expansions.
I like how you included "send all workers to work". Some advanced stuff right there.
edit: Also, the distance on Jungle Basin is easily the longest between bases and naturals (since the natural is behind the base) in the pool. At least it felt like that when I just now played it. Wouldn't advice 6-pooling there. 
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i think this map was in beta...but i wonder if blizzard brings this map again because this was an aweful map to play...
btw why is no big map anymore? i kinda miss it...
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On October 07 2010 12:11 allurhorses wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 12:08 smegged wrote:On October 07 2010 12:02 Telcontar wrote:
ok just played ~10 ladder games on the new maps (EU) and in every single one, the opposition cheesed. i think the combination of me playing random and the unfamiliar maps just scared them into 6pooling, proxy gating/raxing. so be on your guard folks! Honestly if Blizzard continues much longer with their current map pool, I am going to simply 6-pool every game on 2 player ladder maps (maybe not on Blistering Sands, if I could ever find a game on there). I was practicing 6-pooling against very hard AI last night and it's really easy to do on the smaller maps. Send all workers to work. 200 mins build pool Build 2 more drones When pool pops build 6 lings Build Overlord Pump lings until you have 150 minerals and no larva Build Queen If your opponent is not dead by this time spawn larva and pump lings. Pylons/depots are your biggest priority targets. Unless your opponent goes for early rax/pool/gate this should be plenty to win most of these short rush maps. Obviously this is what Blizzard wants the game to be otherwise they would have given us longer rush distances and maps with more expansions. I like how you included "send all workers to work". Some advanced stuff right there.
Half the build order in fact.
I 6 pool when I feel like sleeping because you have so little to do, micro some lings, control 1 building ... done.
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On October 07 2010 12:08 smegged wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 12:02 Telcontar wrote:
ok just played ~10 ladder games on the new maps (EU) and in every single one, the opposition cheesed. i think the combination of me playing random and the unfamiliar maps just scared them into 6pooling, proxy gating/raxing. so be on your guard folks! Honestly if Blizzard continues much longer with their current map pool, I am going to simply 6-pool every game on 2 player ladder maps (maybe not on Blistering Sands, if I could ever find a game on there). I was practicing 6-pooling against very hard AI last night and it's really easy to do on the smaller maps. Send all workers to work. 200 mins build pool Build 2 more drones When pool pops build 6 lings Build Overlord Pump lings until you have 150 minerals and no larva Build Queen If your opponent is not dead by this time spawn larva and pump lings. Pylons/depots are your biggest priority targets. Unless your opponent goes for early rax/pool/gate this should be plenty to win most of these short rush maps. Obviously this is what Blizzard wants the game to be otherwise they would have given us longer rush distances and maps with more expansions.
Obviously Blizzard wants you to learn how to play zerg.
Blaming blizzard for you not taking the time and energy to learn how to play zerg mid-late game isn't going to help... anyone. I am not saying its easy, but claiming they are designing maps for only 6 pooling is a pretty bold statement. And you should prepare to back that up.
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After a few quick vs AI on Jungle Basin, I have already found why I will hate this map as zerg. Where do I send my first 2-3 overlords??? There is only one good spot near the other base that has any protection from marines (the area next to the in base natural, pretty far from main)
The second spot would be on the far south east side just outside of main, or far north west side just below main at top. But those two areas, all a terran has to do is send a few marines out to snipe off OL as that is the obvious spot to send them that is closest to do an overlord's sacrificial scout.
Will be easy to see if they expand to their inbase natural, but that is of little use, as zerg needs to know what tech path t/p are going asafp.
On the bright side, it will be easyer to scout for proxies as you have no use of sending the first few overlords right at their main, as they will be easy targets for marines and early stalkers.
The best 3rd would be if you took out your rocks and expanded to the far side, and run creep tumors from your expo over to it. The obvious counter to that is terran doing the same thing, and putting a PF cc expo their as their 3rd, making it hard as hell to backstab any aggression on your 3rd. You have 4 options. Defend with your forces, attack their main via ramp, attack their 3rd (its a PF) or runby their 3rd and go for their expo or main.
I don't see anybody getting the 2 center expansions as 3rds, except maybe terran with a PF. As zerg it feels far too close and uprotected.
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Can someone with some credentials explain to me how both of theses maps are "shit" for zerg. They seem to have very easy naturals to take with a very few angles of attack onto those naturals. Or is that the problem?
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As a zerg player I'm really sad to see Kulas go. It was the only map I was confident against both P and T on. Being able to expand to the gold was a very strong option, the distances were pretty large, and it was easy to defend 3rd/4th expansions. Cliff on the natural was pretty dumb, but outside of that expected abuse it's better than most of the map pool.
It would have been nice if these maps were removed instead:
Desert Oasis (even worse vs T with the rocks, better vs 4 gate with the rocks)
Steppes of War (horrid)
Blistering Sands (bad)
Delta Quadrant (void cheese, anti-zerg expansion)
Edit: I find it odd that they added two terrible maps instead of something like Crossfire or another 4 player map.
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On October 07 2010 11:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
I really wish the OP for this thread had made polls about how people like/don't like the maps...
If you tell me how I'll set it up.
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EPT
