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On October 01 2010 19:39 Heimatloser wrote:
So he lost to Idra, we remember, a guy who didnt even make the round of 16 in the gsl.
what exactly is the point of this post?
even idra is higher ranked than him...
Obvious troll is obvious. When Cool/Tester say that IdrA is one of the best macro zergs in the world I can assure you that IdrA is pretty good.
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Cool game, glad to see his playstyle translates to SC2 so well.
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Great game. Now all Terrans are going to abuse that high-ground with tanks. We're doomed.
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Overhyped.. However Boxer wil be godlike if he devoted months to this instead of a few thousand games.
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Damn I hope to see good old Boxer in a tournament again!
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I think a lot of people are missing the point here.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, Idra won, Idra outplayed Boxer and Idra had control of the match from the point where he destroyed Boxer's main army.
But what's amazing about the game and what is making people excited is not the fact that he lost, but the manner in which he lost, and more specifically how he managed to do SO MUCH damage with so few units for like a full 15 minutes. Despite only having half the army size, he ran Idra around and around the map, sniping stuff left and right and managed to kill his expansions multiple times. At one point Idra was forced to long distance mine from the gold because he was basically broke and couldn't afford to rebuild another hatchery.
The point is that if Boxer can do that much in a game where he's down 60 food and has basically no chance of winning, it's exciting to think what moves he could manage to pull out in a situation where he reaches the midgame on equal footing.
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Canada5565 Posts
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On October 01 2010 20:12 FuRong wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here. + Show Spoiler +Yes, Idra won, Idra outplayed Boxer and Idra had control of the match from the point where he destroyed Boxer's main army.
But what's amazing about the game and what is making people excited is not the fact that he lost, but the manner in which he lost, and more specifically how he managed to do SO MUCH damage with so few units for like a full 15 minutes. Despite only having half the army size, he ran Idra around and around the map, sniping stuff left and right and managed to kill his expansions multiple times. At one point Idra was forced to long distance mine from the gold because he was basically broke and couldn't afford to rebuild another hatchery.
The point is that if Boxer can do that much in a game where he's down 60 food and has basically no chance of winning, it's exciting to think what moves he could manage to pull out in a situation where he reaches the midgame on equal footing.
+ Show Spoiler + Even Boxer wouldn't be able to do that had idra built a few mutalisks with that massive economy he had. Neither would he do that if idra A moved with the massive advantage he had at many points in the game. Idra only held off because he's a very safe player.
Really, I was so confused as to why Idra let so many drops happen. He had complete vision over the map and knew where almost every single drop came from.
And so much damage with so little units? What did he do special to do that? Drop 8 marines far away from ultra ball - stim - focus fire hatchery. Really, this game wasn't all that good.
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On October 01 2010 18:40 Shimeone wrote:That was a very interesting game. Very fun to watch. + Show Spoiler +However, and this is a real question from a newbie like me, i don't understand why IdrA didn't make any AA to prevent those medivacs droping everywhere on the map?
Well his reasoning was surely that hydras just suck against Terran and that Mutalisks wouldve been weak that late into the game with no upgrades.
So he figured he needed to deal with anti air purely with infestors
On October 01 2010 19:39 Heimatloser wrote:
So he lost to Idra, we remember, a guy who didnt even make the round of 16 in the gsl.
what exactly is the point of this post?
even idra is higher ranked than him...
lol you're an idiot
first of all, idra is the 2nd or 3rd best Zerg in korea.
Secondly, Boxer was still a bw coach/player until a very short time ago, he's gonna improve fast.
Thirdly, this was just one game and it showed a lot of potential, in a different game he might have won. It was quite impressive how he held on despite being like 50 supply behind.
Thx a whole lot, Artosis
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On October 01 2010 20:25 frucisky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 20:12 FuRong wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here. + Show Spoiler +Yes, Idra won, Idra outplayed Boxer and Idra had control of the match from the point where he destroyed Boxer's main army.
But what's amazing about the game and what is making people excited is not the fact that he lost, but the manner in which he lost, and more specifically how he managed to do SO MUCH damage with so few units for like a full 15 minutes. Despite only having half the army size, he ran Idra around and around the map, sniping stuff left and right and managed to kill his expansions multiple times. At one point Idra was forced to long distance mine from the gold because he was basically broke and couldn't afford to rebuild another hatchery.
The point is that if Boxer can do that much in a game where he's down 60 food and has basically no chance of winning, it's exciting to think what moves he could manage to pull out in a situation where he reaches the midgame on equal footing. + Show Spoiler + Even Boxer wouldn't be able to do that had idra built a few mutalisks with that massive economy he had. Neither would he do that if idra A moved with the massive advantage he had at many points in the game. Idra only held off because he's a very safe player.
Really, I was so confused as to why Idra let so many drops happen. He had complete vision over the map and knew where almost every single drop came from.
And so much damage with so little units? What did he do special to do that? Drop 8 marines far away from ultra ball - stim - focus fire hatchery. Really, this game wasn't all that good.
+ Show Spoiler +I agree, the match was a rather poor one-sided game. Despite the fact that Idra could have made things even easier with some added air control he was never under threat to lose the game.
This just confirms my own feelings that if you fail to do damage to an eco-booming Zerg in the early game, as Boxer did more or less no sucecssful harrassment, you'll struggle and fall behind the Zerg quickly. On the other side of the coin, if the Zerg fails to defend vs harass in the early game it's auto-win for Terran. Kind of a lame matchup imho.
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2 conclusions:
1. Idra played well, but not great, because he can't multitask.
2. Boxer already played over 700 games, so his ability has been stabilizing. Sure he harassed well at the end, but he needs to find ways to expand and multitask at the beginning. Clumping up units up till mid game is definitely not top notch play.
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I have to say I enjoyed watching that, but somtimes from the commentating I was thinking that Artosis was watching a different game. So many "damn is he good" when I thought nothing rly amazing happened. I wonder how the commentating would have been if he didn't know it was boxer playing. Overall al little bit to hyped, but cant wait to see Boxer play with his full potential.
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I'd love to see Boxer and ChRh meet each other somewhere in GSL.
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Honestly, I actually found Idra's play pretty disappointing. His creep spreading was not perfect, but definitely good, yet he did a lot of mistakes imho:
- he missed multiple good opportunities for fungals (the lone thor, the marine blob, several dropships..), it got a bit better in the end though (loved the fungal + infested terran)
- he looked pretty helpless against the tanks on highground (took him ages to drop one ultra there, when his initial assault was defeated)
- he did not fight the drops properly although he had almost full map vision
- his macro was not really strong either - nothing compared to what Cool and ITR are doing at the GSL, just slightly ahead of Boxer, in terms of bases as well as worker count / resource gain
- he should definitely have gotten some Mutas, especially do deal with all the drops
- Idra had full vision of the map, yet it did not feel that he had map control. Mutas or static defense might have changed that more to his favor and allow him to expand even further
If Boxer had gotten Vikings or Banshees earlier, it would have changed a lot. Add in a raven and a few marines to clean up the creep and idra would have been in serious trouble.
I think Idra is too inflexible in his strategies and sometimes to narrow-visioned. It is probably a good and solid strategy and works against most of the standard stuff, but I would like to see more creativity and improvisation, as well as more large-scale oriented expansion. Do not try to be slightly ahead of your opponent, rather fully conquer the map and crush them. :D That is also more fun to watch!
All of that is just my unimportant noob opinion of course.
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Boxxxxxxxer !!!!!!1!1!1! SIEGE MOOOOODE!!!!!
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i think Idra wanted to win this match waaaay to much so thats why he did many mistakes and not focusing as well as he use too do.
i mean if i was a top player and i meet boxer i would shat my pants T_T
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exciting game, thanks artosis!
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Really enjoyed that, thanks for posting Artosis.
Thought IdrA played really well and his creep spreading was some of the most proactive I've seen. Boxer's play was awesome too, especially how he was able to continuously harass despite a pretty large food differential.
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That was a really fun game to watch. The quality could have been better as I couldn't read the chat/resources/supply most of the time but whatever still awesome.
I haven't really followed the BW pro scene in a long time so I'm guessing that Boxer is only 'casually' playing SC2 so far since this is the 1st game I've seen of him. If he has the time for it, he'll get absolutely beastly in SC2 with some more practice.
Also, like Artosis mentioned, I think that's the first time I've seen anyone try to take advantage of the high-ground platforms next to the watch towers. Cool stuff.
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EPT
