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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:41 Pawshter wrote: What proof do you have that wc3 is unbalanced? Unsupported statements. Well, Undead has an extremely difficult matchup vs Orcs... I think that counts as unbalanced. | ||
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
its only lately when the top UD players started retiring, and Orcs players started stacking BM and really abusing his critical strike and WW that things got a bit unblanced. With the BW comparison thats a bit unfair, at the start of BW the pros werent playing all that well (i remember listening to day9s daily about his BW experiences and it seemed that the first year or so everyone was a noob). so as the game strats hadnt eveolved to the way they are today, or at least similar, the game couldnt be balanced until the changes in strategy finally slowed down. however for sc2 the best strats and the best way to play the game are being discovered a lot faster, and therefore it will be a lot easier to balance the game. so 2 and a half years is a lot longer than is needed, however if new units are introduced with each expansion it may take till half a year after the last expansion or something | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
SC2 needs good players .. Right now, I think there are some but still needs more in order to get a decent data to being heavy balancing stuff. But Blizzard, it seems to me and based how they tend to listen more to casual gamers (saw many post about it), wont balance it for E-sport but for the newbies to have a competitive edge against higher skilled players. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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antelope591
Canada820 Posts
When was the last time you saw lost temple in a BW tourney? But its still a flagship map in all SC2 tourneys. Of course with everyone playing Blizz maps on ladder it will be harder to incorporate more balanced maps which is an issue that has to be looked at. However until I see tournaments using maps created strictly by the community (as it is in BW) I will never say that the game is completely unbalanced. | ||
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Tdelamay
Canada548 Posts
We all perfectly know that Blizzard is planning two more expansion for the game. Balance will shift entirely with each of these expansions. We don't need a thread arguing whether it will take too long to achieve perfect balance when we know the schedule for these expansions; 1,5 years each. Be patient, people. Time is relative. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:12 Tdelamay wrote: This is a pointless argument. We all perfectly know that Blizzard is planning two more expansion for the game. Balance will shift entirely with each of these expansions. We don't need a thread arguing whether it will take too long to achieve perfect balance when we know the schedule for these expansions; 1,5 years each. Be patient, people. Time is relative. I really dont think that is necessary .. they could just heavy patch it on the 2nd and leave the 3rd for campaign and other new feature that wasn't present in the old patches - OR - SC2 will get really unlucky and will take more many months to balance the gameplay even if the 3rd expansion was released. i think people here assume that when the last expansion is out, the game will be balanced 100% guaranteed .. but i think not likely to happen, it may happen, but maybe a 30% chance .. so many factors are needed to for games to be balanced. not just time .. | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:41 Pawshter wrote: What proof do you have that wc3 is unbalanced? Unsupported statements. Uhm wc3 is pretty unbalanced. Races are radically favored based on the map (moreso than starcraft), and some heroes are a lot better than others, while a race's unit comp is just plain bad vs another race... It's basically impossible to balance well because there are 4 races. It's pretty much a widel accepted fact, so he's not making baseless statements. | ||
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Raisauce
Canada864 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:43 csfield wrote: It's well-established that BW is only balanced through a miracle (and excellent map-makers), and not through Blizzard's foresight or understanding. They had little to no idea how strategy would evolve. This. imo Blizzard got extremely lucky with how BW turned out, I doubt they could do it again. | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:42 blabber wrote: isn't it the general consensus that Orc (specifically Blademaster) is imbalanced? There have been some small patches (such as the repair rate of towers changed etc) but pretty much this same patch, balance wise, Orc was considered the weakest race and often you'd see tournaments with like 1 or 2 Orcs competing against a ton of humans, night elves and a few undeads. The game evolved, and I haven't played the game much the last 3-4 years, but mainly due to the fact that Orc players now sell their teleport scroll to buy some circlets in the store which gives blademasters a huge edge in early game which they can expand upon. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On October 01 2010 15:36 Osmoses wrote: I was not so much the patches as the maps and the players that evolved. Some truth to that but a lot of people are forgetting that the difference between Starcraft and Brood War was night and day. Maps and players would not have mattered if not for the huge change in Brood War. The key will be Blizzard will have to stop the approach of randomly buffing or nerfing a stat if a unit is too strong or too weak and start looking at the bigger picture. At the very least when adjusting a unit you have to also look at the units that it closely interacts with. For example if you are going to nerf the Roach you also need to take a close look at the Marauder at the same time. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:38 Perscienter wrote: I just wanted to write this down, because balancing Brood War wasn't such a big deal. In fact, they did it in quite an occasional way. It certainly didn't took so much changes as in Frozen Throne and that game isn't balanced at all in the end. I guess, Blizzard will stay sloppy about the balance and we can only hope for severe changes in the addons, which will probably overthrow a lot. I just want to point out that you heavily exagerate the balance of the current state of WC3:TFT. Sure it might need some tweeks here n there but its really not as bad as you put it, and this I can stand as someone who has played and followed the pro league since 04, and still do. Blademaster certainly needs a nerf (damage stacking with crit) and Tome of exp needs to be removed and some new Maps would do good (not that ALL the current are unbalanced, but some are, and with new maps its very important that they're balanced as well) but thats about it. Maybe steam tanks could need some increase of the given experience points as well and Ancient Protectors have an tier3 upgrade that switches their Damage type to siege (Just a little fantasy of mine that'd give Night Elves an easier way of dealing with Siege tanks). | ||
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HolyOnes
Australia52 Posts
I really think micro tricks are missing in SC2 that existed in SC BW that helped players balance the game, a weak unit could become unkillable with the right micro trick, such as vulture patrol move shot but thats one example of many. Also the entire game isn`t out until HOTS and the protoss campaign are released. So it seems to me terran being the stronger race since this is its campaign makes sense. Once the games complete then it may be fairer hopefully. Remember in the original SC1 the mutalisk was seen as OP until BW arrived with the corsair,medic. valkarie tho hardly used etc.. Just my views among many :D | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 01 2010 08:03 Fizbin wrote: u cant be serious in comparing WOW arena balance too what the balance team for sc2 is going to do. wow had to balance single player and multiplayer at the same time. that is why they had so many difficulties... terrible example... not to even mention trying to balance 8 races or whatever compared too 3 30 really, since it's 10 classes with 3 specs each. Plus they balance around 3v3, and yeah, with the same exact ruleset for PvE and PvP. The fact that most of those 30 specs are more or less viable in both 2v2 and 3v3 is actually a testament to how good Blizzard is at this sort of thing. Of course anyone stuck with the "less" part of that "more or less" thinks their balancing team consists of a single blind, retarded spider monkey who spends his days masturbating and huffing paint thinner. | ||
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
On October 01 2010 17:18 kojinshugi wrote: 30 really, since it's 10 classes with 3 specs each. Plus they balance around 3v3, and yeah, with the same exact ruleset for PvE and PvP. The fact that most of those 30 specs are more or less viable in both 2v2 and 3v3 is actually a testament to how good Blizzard is at this sort of thing. Of course anyone stuck with the "less" part of that "more or less" thinks their balancing team consists of a single blind, retarded spider monkey who spends his days masturbating and huffing paint thinner. One, with hybrids, 2 specs per class are PvP viable. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 01 2010 16:17 Grond wrote: For example if you are going to nerf the Roach you also need to take a close look at the Marauder at the same time. What, like make it 2 supply? | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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