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On September 29 2010 10:30 Boundless wrote:
I don't think Blizzard ever said that they WANTED Ultra AOE damage to be absolutely huge like it was in 1.1.0. Clearly, this was an unintended consequence of the patch, and they needed to drop the damage back down to a non-ridiculous level.
What's clearly happened here is that everyone has become accustomed to the 1.1.0 Ultra AOE, and thus is up in arms because 1.1.1 Ultras don't have AOE like they did in 1.1.1. Think about the 1.1.0 Ultralisk as a bug, not a standard.
And one more thing, they did not "nerf" Ultras twice in a week, they nerfed them once. They dropped the damage vs. Armored units by 5, and in that same patch, accidentally created a bug. 1.1.1 is not a nerf, its a bugfix.
Yes it is a nerf, splash vs. units had always been like it was in 1.1.0 and now they've reduced it and don't even comprehend what they've done. Let me break it down for you:
beta
splash vs. units: x
splash vs. buildings: none
1.0
splash vs. units: x
splash vs. buildings: none
1.1
splash vs. units: x
splash vs. buildings: x+(y*size)
1.1.1
splash vs. units: x-2
splash vs. buildings: x-2
NB: these are just values i made up to make a point. I don't know what the values actually are, just that this is how they've played out
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No one else thinks the splash before the patch was redonk? It ate EVERYTHING.
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On September 29 2010 10:30 Boundless wrote:
I don't think Blizzard ever said that they WANTED Ultra AOE damage to be absolutely huge like it was in 1.1.0. Clearly, this was an unintended consequence of the patch, and they needed to drop the damage back down to a non-ridiculous level.
What's clearly happened here is that everyone has become accustomed to the 1.1.0 Ultra AOE, and thus is up in arms because 1.1.1 Ultras don't have AOE like they did in 1.1.1. Think about the 1.1.0 Ultralisk as a bug, not a standard.
And one more thing, they did not "nerf" Ultras twice in a week, they nerfed them once. They dropped the damage vs. Armored units by 5, and in that same patch, accidentally created a bug. 1.1.1 is not a nerf, its a bugfix.
as a kind man i will repeat this again:
people need to realise that the 'buggy' aoe splash only applied on attacking buildings,as in patch 1.1. ultras aoe splash of attacking units is same in 1.0 and 1.1.
Now in 1.1.1 ultras have reduced aoe splash on units, which is a huge neff.
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On September 29 2010 10:31 Eschaton wrote:
I understand why Blizzard would patch this, even 'nerf' it. Even if the splash from Ultras was the only way we Zergs could win games, it's not an intended mechanic. Leaving it in would mask imbalance from other intended mechanics. So, taking it out will hopefully make it easier to balance the elements of the game that are actually supposed to be there.
Exactly.
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i still have beta installed on my comp. could run a program to get it running and get some ultra splash demonstrations. though im pretty sure ultra splash was the same during the last patch of beta and release 1.0
This is exactly the point. That 1.0 splash is the same as 1.1.0 splash vs units. Please do so, and document your findings appropriately...
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On September 29 2010 10:31 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 10:30 Boundless wrote:
I don't think Blizzard ever said that they WANTED Ultra AOE damage to be absolutely huge like it was in 1.1.0. Clearly, this was an unintended consequence of the patch, and they needed to drop the damage back down to a non-ridiculous level.
What's clearly happened here is that everyone has become accustomed to the 1.1.0 Ultra AOE, and thus is up in arms because 1.1.1 Ultras don't have AOE like they did in 1.1.1. Think about the 1.1.0 Ultralisk as a bug, not a standard.
And one more thing, they did not "nerf" Ultras twice in a week, they nerfed them once. They dropped the damage vs. Armored units by 5, and in that same patch, accidentally created a bug. 1.1.1 is not a nerf, its a bugfix. Yes it is a nerf, splash vs. units had always been like it was in 1.1.0 and now they've reduced it and don't even comprehend what they've done
Edit:
wait, fuck. I messed up my patch numbers. I was thinking that 1.0.0 was the one that had the bugged ultra, not 1.1.0
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I know software engineering is complicated and all, but I don't understand how they can have a balance patch laid out for a month, then fuck it up with game-breaking bugs, and then fuck up the fix-it patch a few days later. This is getting ridiculous.
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Now that I got my patch numbers straight, I agree. Yes, this is a very significant nerf.
Not sure why they would do this.
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On September 29 2010 10:37 Boundless wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 10:31 theqat wrote:On September 29 2010 10:30 Boundless wrote:
I don't think Blizzard ever said that they WANTED Ultra AOE damage to be absolutely huge like it was in 1.1.0. Clearly, this was an unintended consequence of the patch, and they needed to drop the damage back down to a non-ridiculous level.
What's clearly happened here is that everyone has become accustomed to the 1.1.0 Ultra AOE, and thus is up in arms because 1.1.1 Ultras don't have AOE like they did in 1.1.1. Think about the 1.1.0 Ultralisk as a bug, not a standard.
And one more thing, they did not "nerf" Ultras twice in a week, they nerfed them once. They dropped the damage vs. Armored units by 5, and in that same patch, accidentally created a bug. 1.1.1 is not a nerf, its a bugfix. Yes it is a nerf, splash vs. units had always been like it was in 1.1.0 and now they've reduced it and don't even comprehend what they've done Edit: wait, fuck. I messed up my patch numbers. I was thinking that 1.0.0 was the one that had the bugged ultra, not 1.1.0
It worked exactly as they coded it to, how is that a bug?
Unit size +2
Remove head butt, ultra vs building = big splash because... buildings are pretty big.
Edit: quoted as you edited lol
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A tiny bit scared for Cool and his remaining GSL matches now. 
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On September 29 2010 10:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Or are you just building a type of unit and just 1a rebuild 1a and then cry imba? There are problems with Zerg for sure, but in this case, you are just bad at analyzing the opponents army composition, or you have a verry hard time writing down your thoughts.
Passive aggressive much? I'm not even going to pretend to be civil with you after that kind of straw manning and condescension.
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On September 29 2010 10:36 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +i still have beta installed on my comp. could run a program to get it running and get some ultra splash demonstrations. though im pretty sure ultra splash was the same during the last patch of beta and release 1.0 This is exactly the point. That 1.0 splash is the same as 1.1.0 splash vs units. Please do so, and document your findings appropriately...
dammit just tested my old version of sc2. refuses to work at all T.T
so annoyed because i swore it worked last time i tested something T.T
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On September 29 2010 10:47 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 10:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Or are you just building a type of unit and just 1a rebuild 1a and then cry imba? There are problems with Zerg for sure, but in this case, you are just bad at analyzing the opponents army composition, or you have a verry hard time writing down your thoughts. I'm not even going to pretend to be civil .
You never were though. Now leave it be.
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I think one of the main issues here is that this is something blizzard stumbled on to...
They did not MEAN to nerf the ultra. If that was the intention then this change would have appeared in the original patch and would have been documented. The reason this is such a problem is because this nerf is simly an un-planned by-product of a fix to a fix....
This isnt even about balancing the ultra, this is about being accountable for the changes you make to the game. They didnt intend for this to happen, people need to get that.
Ultras op... please, simply because you need a good position to kill them. I could engage you with 20 ultras on a ramp any you would rape them. Just like Zerg needs to constantly set up flanks to succeed, please dont call a unit op because you need to fight it in a choke and not anywhere you want.
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I think blizzard dont like zergs at all, even if in my opinion are the most watchable race but for ZvZ.
I think that when bugged, ultralisks were just too powerful against buildings, but not because ultra splash killed scv's repairing PF( I just find amazing that anyone can cry at that, just need to watch how much stuff a zerg needs to kill a being-repared PF if you are not going banes) but because it hit thing like marines a mile away and that stuff, but now they are useless one more time, and i don't know how a zerg will deal with pre-ignater helion+thor. For my terrans friends, think that ultras are T3 that only atack ground, and are just useless in chockes, so that thors now counter ultras...
Hard time for us zergies, and now even more...
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I'd rather zerg not be "balanced" around ultra's AoE being rediculous, and yes I'm talking about pre 1.1. Do zerg players really want the race to be designed around being mediocre in t1/t2 and great in t3? Personally I think that is a horrible design choice.
Ultra AoE vs thors took a significant hit in patch 1.1.1, and while everyone is going to moan about it now I think in the long run they are going to be thankful. This will highlight the weaknesses of the race and help Blizzard balance it accordingly.
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On September 29 2010 11:24 Kinmaul wrote:
I'd rather zerg not be "balanced" around ultra's AoE being rediculous, and yes I'm talking about pre 1.1. Do zerg players really want the race to be designed around being mediocre in t1/t2 and great in t3? Personally I think that is a horrible design choice.
Ultra AoE vs thors took a significant hit in patch 1.1.1, and while everyone is going to moan about it now I think in the long run they are going to be thankful. This will highlight the weaknesses of the race and help Blizzard balance it accordingly.
in the long run it will help. but thats not the issue. they are willing to hot fix something without looking at the reprecussians when ever zerg is involoved. yet wont budge for months on a bug that involoves terran (bunker inside repair). you can call that sentance zerg QQ'ing. but that is literally the truth.
and what makes things worse. they have hyped up the GSL and towards the final's they have pulled out of thier asses this HUGE late game nerf for zerg. yes the ultra splash on BUILDINGS needed to be fixed. but blizzard decided to nerf the enitre ultra splash mechanics that now also effect UNITS! which was not a problem. had they just reduced th splash on buildings, which was the only problem, no one would be complaining.
and on top of that they refuse to admit they did something wrong. instead pulling out of their ass "its working as intended"
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I think its quite amazing that after all the apparent problems with zerg, bliz have now made (with 1.1.1) 1.1 into a zerg nerf patch. That's some terrible balancing.
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That was close, Blizzard almost made Zerg overpowered. Thank god they fixed it, or everyone who plays Terran would be freaking out.
LMAO @ Blizzard. Can't they just create two different attacks, one for buildings and one for units, but the one for buildings has no splash? Or something?
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On September 29 2010 11:46 Antares777 wrote:
That was close, Blizzard almost made Zerg overpowered. Thank god they fixed it, or everyone who plays Terran would be freaking out.
LMAO @ Blizzard. Can't they just create two different attacks, one for buildings and one for units, but the one for buildings has no splash? Or something?
hmm yeah maybe they could call that second attack only for buildings Ram or something and have it do like 70 damage or something? a great completely new idea and......
oh......wait.....
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EPT
