EPTPersonally I feel this is really useful, especially since I play zerg.
New game clock feature - Page 9
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Wihl
Sweden472 Posts
Personally I feel this is really useful, especially since I play zerg. | ||
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CheezDip
126 Posts
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
I think it is a good thing, many improvements in the depature of making the game easier have proven to make the game better so far, and not at all skillfree as many suspected. | ||
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Moita
Brazil30 Posts
But, to improve my own game, I think this a good feature | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 22 2010 05:50 Wihl wrote: This reminds me of threat meters in vanilla-WoW. People always talked about how only "noobs" needed threat meters and how no good players would have a use for them. Anyone who has played WoW knows how that turned out. Personally I feel this is really useful, especially since I play zerg. Echoing this. The clock can only help you be more precise in your timings, so I can't see why anyone would disable this feature other than to try maintain a (very false) sense of superiority over their peers. At worst, you use it maybe 5% of the time (or less) to establish important timing windows in the early game and then ignore it the other 95% of the time. | ||
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zYoh
United States4 Posts
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butter
United States785 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
Did anyone see the two Day[9] dailies about learning ZvT? Day was actually trying to predict the timing of 5 rax reapers using simple techniques such as supply count, lair progress and stuff like that. This was the same in BW: you needed both experience and careful analysis of your games to be able to figure out the timing of things. It's as if in BW any D+ newb could just make turrets at the exact perfect timing Flash-like against Z depending on whether the guy went for 2 or 3-hatch, every single time, no matter what his own build order was. This thing will become more and more ridiculous when 2-3 standard builds will be figured out for each matchup, since basically anyone will be able to know the timings of everything exactly before even encountering any of the opposing builds. No need to watch replays anymore and try to be clever, no need to "sense" any timings by yourself anymore, either. Just go to Liquipedia and learn the timings of everything, by heart. Add/substract a couple seconds depending on what you saw (lower worker count, stuff like that) and you probably won't be taken by surprise anymore 80% of the time. I'm probably making it sound way bigger a deal than it actually is. But the point is that it was completely useless to add such a feature in the first place, and will most likely help diminish the game's already not-so-good-looking skill ceiling. Just my two cents. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
Despite the fact that, for years, progamers talked about doing this, 99% of players still relied on food timings (ie I do a push at 77/85 food). This isn't a bad thing, but it bothers me that such players ignore the mineral/gas timings, a timing effectively equivalent to having an in-game clock. As far as I'm concerned, an in-game clock a good thing! At the very least, I don't have to do any of my goofy conversions anymore  | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 06:34 Day[9] wrote: This seems like a completely reasonable change and I see absolutely no reason to be upset about this. You can already be really exact with the time by checking the remaining mineral/gas count on your resources. Most broodwar progamers don't do timing attacks based on food. Instead they check the mineral count at their expo or main and do "a timing push when I have 900 minerals at a mineral patch at my expo." Despite the fact that, for years, progamers talked about doing this, 99% of players still relied on food timings (ie I do a push at 77/85 food). This isn't a bad thing, but it bothers me that such players ignore the mineral/gas timings, a timing effectively equivalent to having an in-game clock. As far as I'm concerned, an in-game clock a good thing! At the very least, I don't have to do any of my goofy conversions anymore Must be the first time ever I disagree with you, dear Day.  | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
But, considering that using your gas geyser to time things is just as accurate as using a clock, do you still think the in-game clock is an issue? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On September 22 2010 06:34 Day[9] wrote: This seems like a completely reasonable change and I see absolutely no reason to be upset about this. You can already be really exact with the time by checking the remaining mineral/gas count on your resources. Most broodwar progamers don't do timing attacks based on food. Instead they check the mineral count at their expo or main and do "a timing push when I have 900 minerals at a mineral patch at my expo." Despite the fact that, for years, progamers talked about doing this, 99% of players still relied on food timings (ie I do a push at 77/85 food). This isn't a bad thing, but it bothers me that such players ignore the mineral/gas timings, a timing effectively equivalent to having an in-game clock. As far as I'm concerned, an in-game clock a good thing! At the very least, I don't have to do any of my goofy conversions anymore It is also nice to be able to tell when your TvT ladder game has been going on for an hour and you need to leave because you have a meeting. | ||
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
On September 22 2010 06:34 Day[9] wrote: This seems like a completely reasonable change and I see absolutely no reason to be upset about this. You can already be really exact with the time by checking the remaining mineral/gas count on your resources. Most broodwar progamers don't do timing attacks based on food. Instead they check the mineral count at their expo or main and do "a timing push when I have 900 minerals at a mineral patch at my expo." Despite the fact that, for years, progamers talked about doing this, 99% of players still relied on food timings (ie I do a push at 77/85 food). This isn't a bad thing, but it bothers me that such players ignore the mineral/gas timings, a timing effectively equivalent to having an in-game clock. As far as I'm concerned, an in-game clock a good thing! At the very least, I don't have to do any of my goofy conversions anymore day9 hit the nail on the head on this one there are many ways you could count how much time you were in game.. but this new tool will make builds and the metagame change radically faster. The skill level of low level players will be better if they have a better idea of time... | ||
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StRyKeR
United States1756 Posts
The timer allowed me to realize whether I was behind or not. For example, in ZvT, if I'm not hurt early game, 3 hatch mutas will always pop before 7:00. If I got hurt, they would hatch after, and I would know exactly how behind I was. It also helped me analyze rush timings greatly. Against Terran cheese, I would know, down to the second, when certain rushes would start (fast factory Vulture speed cheese before 5:00, siege tank rush at 5:30, etc) so it helped me control drone timings. | ||
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Dance.
United States389 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 22 2010 06:37 Dental Floss wrote: Actually wouldn't a timing based on gas count be more accurate for pushing? It seems like you would want your push timing to be based on the game situation rather than the game time. If you get harassed a bunch and push out at the same clock-time you could get crushed, but if the pressure delays your gas and you push at like 800 vespene left you'd have the same power of push. With any timing system, you need to take into account what actually happens during the game. In this sense, absolute "accuracy" is less important to measure than simply knowing how your timing mechanisms will change over the course of the game. Simple examples: + If during an early harass you lose a drone in your geyser or forget to make units, your food/gas counts will be off from what you expect. + Likewise, if you expect a banshee rush at time t but then your opponent commits strongly with early hellions while teching to banshees, you need to factor in the time it probably took your opponent to get the hellions into your banshee timing. | ||
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Hendeca
United States23 Posts
Anyone care to list your reasons behind banning the timer from tourneys? Also, are the map grid, hit point bar, and building progress options allowed in tourneys atm? | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 06:41 Day[9] wrote: Hahaha my apologies @Pop <3. <3! But, considering that using your gas geyser to time things is just as accurate as using a clock, do you still think the in-game clock is an issue? Again I'm probably making it sound way bigger of a deal than it really is. But I do think this is quite a bit different for several reasons, the main one being that a clock is such a straightforward stat that most sites like Liquipedia will probably write down the timings of everything, meaning no one will need to figure out anything for themselves. The reason why gas geyser counts will never be given on such sites/forums/whatever is mostly because they are completely dependant on the build you're using yourself. It's like in BW, the amount of gas you'll have at your geyser when 2 or 3 hatch mutas come will obviously depend on whether you went for mech or bio, whether you let all 3 SCVs and gas all the time or not, etc etc etc. Times are absolute values that in most cases aren't dependant on anything on your part and are so easy to learn that every newbie in the world will be able to learn them in a minute, instead of having to study their replays and find out "tricks" like geyser/mineral patch things by themselves. It's basically making life a lot easier for rookie players and could effectively remove most of the "wow, he got the roaches at the perfect timing to stop these reapers" moments. I don't see the point, really. | ||
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