EPTNew game clock feature - Page 10
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
OnEMoReTrY
United States99 Posts
| ||
|
Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
I.E. "Okay, it is four minutes (arbitrary number) into the game, time to stop making drones because I need to get some lings/roaches for reaper/zealot harass." Stopping drone production too early or too late can hurt Z pretty bad. | ||
|
gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On September 22 2010 02:42 bonifaceviii wrote: I may be a bronze player, but I'd like to ask a question. Why is an in-game feature with the potential to allow players to better refine their timing a bad thing? Because it takes away another little thing you as a player had to keep track of. That's part of the skill required. It makes the game easier. Good players make notes to themselves: "4 gate push will arrive when my +1 is halfway done." They prepare and sort these kind of things out for every build. Instead of this preparation, you now will just now: standard 4 gate arrives at X:XX, and can just prepare that way. It takes away another dimension of preparation. | ||
|
GinDo
3327 Posts
Though i believe this is good for practice, personally i believe that on Ladder and tournaments it should be removed. | ||
|
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
This is the most useful tool since.. EVER. Think about this. Runners don't measure their sprints against the amount of times their feet hit the ground, do they? They measure it against time. Because measuring any other way is silly - you'd never be accurate 100% with any other measurements (e.g. against supply), and even 1% inaccuracy could be a few crucial seconds difference. In fact, the opposite of what everyone is saying is true - this feature is going to be essential to any top-player level training, because it's now the most accurate measurement of Build Order timing. Really, I don't see what all the complaints are about. Great job Blizzard, you guys did an awesome thing here, and people will see that soon! =D | ||
|
sOAvoid
Canada206 Posts
| ||
|
PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 07:19 andrewwiggin wrote: Um... wow. Blizzard does a good thing, and everyone hates? This is the most useful tool since.. EVER. Would you like a message telling you to build a worker when you're not making any? Wouldn't that be very useful? I mean, I think you're making an irrelevant point here. Useful doesn't necessarily mean good for the game. No one could even disagree with the fact that that clock is gonna be pretty damn useful for quite a lot different things (build timings, but also larva inject timings and many more). | ||
|
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
Would you like a message telling you to build a worker when you're not making any? Wouldn't that be very useful? I mean, I think you're making an irrelevant point here. Useful doesn't necessarily mean good for the game. No one could even disagree with the fact that that clock is gonna be pretty damn useful for quite a lot different things (build timings, but also larva inject timings and many more). That's for sure. It's useful because it would help streamline even the top-level competitive players to perfection. Trying to judge time against supply was always silly - because supply isn't constant in the same way time is, it's naturally going to be varied, even if only a little. But over time, the little variations accumulate, making it less accurate and less accurate. Time features aren't new to e-sports, Starcraft should have had this from the beginning. And my original point stands - you don't see any real world competitive sports that don't use time measurements (clocks), unless time isn't an important issue (e.g. archery). Otherwise, if time is important - they use CLOCKS. They don't require that athletes have to gauge time themselves!! =S And time is VERY important in Starcraft. This is just the next step in Starcraft being a more legitimate competitive world sport. | ||
|
Cofo
United States1388 Posts
On September 22 2010 07:19 andrewwiggin wrote: Um... wow. Blizzard does a good thing, and everyone hates? This is the most useful tool since.. EVER. Think about this. Runners don't measure their sprints against the amount of times their feet hit the ground, do they? They measure it against time. Because measuring any other way is silly - you'd never be accurate 100% with any other measurements (e.g. against supply), and even 1% inaccuracy could be a few crucial seconds difference. In fact, the opposite of what everyone is saying is true - this feature is going to be essential to any top-player level training, because it's now the most accurate measurement of Build Order timing. Really, I don't see what all the complaints are about. Great job Blizzard, you guys did an awesome thing here, and people will see that soon! =D It has almost nothing to do with a way to measure build order timing. The people who are against it aren't against it because of that. The bigger issue is that it takes away one of the subtler things that separates good players from great ones by making it based on a clock, instead of good game-sense. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Timing | ||
|
PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 07:29 andrewwiggin wrote: Time features aren't new to e-sports, Starcraft should have had this from the beginning. And my original point stands - you don't see any real world competitive sports that don't use time measurements (clocks), unless time isn't an important issue (e.g. archery). Otherwise, if time is important - they use CLOCKS. They don't require that athletes have to gauge time themselves!! =S Is any of these sports a strategy game involving timing attacks as well as a variety of different openings with specific timings? Games like fooball (soccer) are games that are connected to time due to the fact that they're over after a specific period of time. Time in a sport like tennis is completely irrelevant. In no sport is time even close to as relevant and critical as in a RTS game. | ||
|
Rossweazel
United Kingdom135 Posts
Would be nice to be able to resync halfway through in case of problems (ok, I'm at 5:30.....go). Will be interested to find out if this is the case, it would certainly make sense and make it a useful tool. | ||
|
PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 07:35 Rossweazel wrote: Sorry to split from the "it will make everything easy" theme, but if this is a game time clock (counting in frames, rather than actual time), wont it be useful for syncing casters when using replays, such as in the TL Open this past weekend? Would be nice to be able to resync halfway through in case of problems (ok, I'm at 5:30.....go). Will be interested to find out if this is the case, it would certainly make sense and make it a useful tool. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the replay timer should already make syncing casts easily possible. It's probably the exact same kind of clock they implemented in 1.1. | ||
|
Rossweazel
United Kingdom135 Posts
Although I suppose at least the clock doesnt contain spoiler info (the replay timer tells you how long the match is) | ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
I would really like to know what goes on in their heads. Like Plexa said, this feature won't change much, or help many players at all. The effects on game sense will be minimal. | ||
|
greendestiny
Bosnia-Herzegovina114 Posts
I think good players use their gut feeling to 'know' when the attack is coming. And what if a certain timing becomes widespread, doesn't the clock actually help in adapting to it? | ||
|
TheKnight
Romania77 Posts
i personally think it's a great tool for everyone and ppl need to let go of this "it makes the game require less skill", you can time someones push or defense only if you know the players precice style and strat, everyone adds small personal touches to builds so it's never gonna be like "i need defenses up at 4:00 and none till then" | ||
|
Graven
United States314 Posts
On September 22 2010 02:21 ltortoise wrote: Not that useful for high level players. Good people time stuff relative to what their opponent is DOING, not just the arbitrary start of the match... The start of a match is not an arbitrary time. As Zerg, I can envision the clock being very useful once I memorize the clock timings of certain units. Knowing when the earliest DT, Banshee, Muta, etc can be made makes things easier. As is, it's a *feel* thing more often than not. | ||
|
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
It has almost nothing to do with a way to measure build order timing. The people who are against it aren't against it because of that. The bigger issue is that it takes away one of the subtler things that separates good players from great ones by making it based on a clock, instead of good game-sense. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Timing My original point still stands. No one makes athletes measure their timing on other measures such as cycle of feet movement, or internal counts, even if that would help separate great athletes from each other. And anyway, what sort of separation between players is that in any case? If top level players suddenly can't compete with amateurs, because amateurs didn't know how to measure time in-game before, then really I think that says more about 'top level players' than anything else. What sort of 'good game sense' is the ability to count internally? Good game sense is seeing a tech building, knowing an opponent's army composition is going to be X, and knowing to counter with Y. Not counting inside one's head. Oh. And one last thing. How much do you want to bet that progaming Korean teams (if they had this feature) would use it? Or do you really think they would just completely ignore it? | ||
|
PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 22 2010 07:40 TheKnight wrote: everyone is going overboard about this change....but in reality a player that wanted could have done this with a normal timer....i have a stopwatch for example and i could have used that, i doubt anyone would have given a crap about it....but since now it's in the game everyone chooses a side to either love or hate it. No one would've known about it, but you surely would have felt like you had an unfair advantage over your opponent, wouldn't you? Not to mention it will probably be allowed in LANs too now (they can have their own rules I guess, but I doubt any organizer will forbid it). | ||
|
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
| ||
| ||
