no one claims mmm would be op once u have chargelots and storms out. (although 4 or 8 marauder drops still are ridiculous at nexus sniping, but w/e.)

what is imba in tvp atm is the timing window when the terran has a big bio ball of marines and tons of marauders with concussive shell and stim while the toss does not have chargelots/clossi with range/storms out. during this timing window, they have absolute and undisputed mapcontrol which can be used to safely expand while the toss is contained to onebase play. the imbalance during this timing window is so huge that they dont even have to produce any hard to maintain it. if he was pumping lots of marauders by then, e.g. after going 3 rax, the only thing preventing us tosses from dying instantly and every single time to it are forcefields on the ramp. but this only delays the death against competent Ts as they are gonna roll u with the macro from a 2 to 1 base advantage.

vrs arent viable on every map/every starting location, so no general answer to this problem.

ziteNiA

Sweden73 Posts

August 29 2010 03:08 GMT

#1583

I think they should fix protoss anitair cuz its really bad if a zerg goes massmutta and harass you all time.

charlie420247

United States692 Posts

August 29 2010 03:10 GMT

#1584

i already 8 pool nearly every single game in zvp on stepps of war for the 3 min win. now its just gonna be that much easier.

swanized

Canada2480 Posts

August 29 2010 03:12 GMT

#1585

love th BC nerf, BC are such a boring unit to watch, I hope no one ever gets those out

DooMDash

United States1015 Posts

August 29 2010 03:15 GMT

#1586

On August 29 2010 12:12 swanized wrote:
love th BC nerf, BC are such a boring unit to watch, I hope no one ever gets those out

What? Really? I hope you're kidding.

Half

United States2554 Posts

August 29 2010 03:19 GMT

#1587

On August 29 2010 10:55 Scope wrote:

Show nested quote +

Like in BW you mean?

Zealots have charge in BW?

Fuck...time to switch races.

charlie420247

United States692 Posts

August 29 2010 03:23 GMT

#1588

On August 28 2010 04:42 RxN wrote:
People are really saying 6 pool is going to be OP? Give me a break. It's awful and anyone with a brains knows it. It's so bad that you can still have your pool building as the lings arrive at your base in a ZvZ and still hold it off, even with them dropping a spine crawler on top of it.

anyone who 6 pools a zerg is an idiot. the reason 6 pool will be so powerful now is because its already extremely strong against protoss on small maps like stepps.

xnub

Canada610 Posts

August 29 2010 03:31 GMT

#1589

On August 29 2010 09:00 Ascendant13 wrote:
So... No changes to stim? EMP? Marauders? Anything really? Good lord, does Blizzard play this game?

They do but not in your copper leagues : P

Knutzi

Norway664 Posts

August 29 2010 03:35 GMT

#1590

if these are the only changes then good bye protoss race

Ascendant13

66 Posts

August 29 2010 03:45 GMT

#1591

On August 29 2010 12:31 xnub wrote:

Show nested quote +

They do but not in your copper leagues : P

700+ diamond, so I have some vague idea how to play, lol.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

August 29 2010 03:48 GMT

#1592

On August 29 2010 12:08 ziteNiA wrote:
I think they should fix protoss anitair cuz its really bad if a zerg goes massmutta and harass you all time.

really? just get stalkers/sentries and maybe a cannon or two at your expos. the anti air is very reasonable compared to zergs queens/spores early on.

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

August 29 2010 03:49 GMT

#1593

On August 29 2010 12:08 ziteNiA wrote:
I think they should fix protoss anitair cuz its really bad if a zerg goes massmutta and harass you all time.

This, playing as protoss the only thing i lose against regularly is mutaling, mutas are just so fucking cost effective in mass vs protoss its retarded, and storm is shit and so archons, sure you can get a bunch of phoenix but they just get more lings and your small ass ground army gets skull fucked and you lose

Protoss needs a good AA unit or somethign to deter this mass muta bullshit

doffe

Sweden636 Posts

August 29 2010 03:49 GMT

#1594

actually im quite confused. If you ask me as a zerg player the tanks was not the biggest problem. Well, on the other hand I can now use hydras against terran wich ive never done so far but anyhow. Seeing VODs of top tier players it just have seemed like 90% of all terrans in TvP goes 100% bio, even lategame. Maybe some ghosts there to emp the templars but thats it. And its ridicolously effective against anything the toss can put out. Zure, storm + chargelots are a good counter but tbh, of all the toptier games ive seen the terran mostly wins. Since I do not play neither terran nor protoss I cant really give any depth to this but I really thought some small nerf to bio (longer/late/more expensive tech) was more important then the tanks. Well see what this brings. And the ultranerf seems abit silly, has it ever been overpowered? Sure it demolishes some armys but really, so do alot of other units and if you just scout it correctly ultras is not that big of a problem but hey, its not a big nerf so w/e. Just would have wished they could have made it abit smaller aswell, its more or less unmicroable as of now =)

FuryX

Australia495 Posts

August 29 2010 03:49 GMT

#1595

Idra finds out about 1.1 patch!

doffe

Sweden636 Posts

August 29 2010 03:53 GMT

#1596

protoss AA against mutas? with good "micro" (good not really needed) one phoenix can kill so many mutas.. get 4-5 phoenix and be active with them and you will more or less shut down all muta harass, atleast until he gets either corruptors or infestors to hold ur silly autoshooting phoenixes in place. And sure, mutas are decent against stalkers actually but not really cost effective against the, the same amount of resources of stalkers will own the mutas and with blink you can snipe some every time he attacks. Imo nothing wrong with mutas or toss AA

xNaquada

Canada19 Posts

August 29 2010 03:55 GMT

#1597

Cant say I agree with the Battlecruiser and Zealot nerf (where did these come from?). WarpGates still make gateways completely obsolete from the 3rd-4th unit on. My understanding of the Ultralisk "nerf" is that its actually a buff since its doing same ~dmg but gains +2 area/splash damage. All we loose is (i assume) the ram animation.(Someone can correct me here...)

Siegetanks got absolutely nerfed to hell, and yet people are still complaining about Terran. My god play the patch first before you condemn the balance changes. Still curious as to the unsieged damage values of the tank...but then again whats the point in building them (for roaming) when a marauder is cheaper/easier in techtree to reach, costs less supply, has concussive and stims? (serious question...) At least Hydralisks might be used more....

IMO. Siegetanks are now arguably on par/slightly nerfed with broodwar, (since it costs 1 more supply which is a huge deal) when the cost of 3 tanks HAS to include a supply depot(+buildtime if you are pushing out early). Everyone seems to forget that part. Of course I fully admit the "smarter AI" is a bit of a wildcard that should be accounted for.. however the surround and movement AI and the ability to queue attack orders/per unit should also benefit the units attacking the tanks as well (specifically zealots/lings (after this patch).

IN the end all we can do is wait and play and see what happens.

But yes lets all complain non stop about Terran.

Pertinacious

United States82 Posts

August 29 2010 03:55 GMT

#1598

Zealot change makes no sense. Don't think Ultralisk or BC nerf was needed either.

I think changing Reaper range to 4 or 3.5 would be a better nerf for them. Interested to see how the tank change plays out.

esaul17

Canada547 Posts

August 29 2010 04:02 GMT

#1599

On August 29 2010 09:01 PrinceXizor wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah the PvT situation you mention seems alot like the PvZ situation that caused the zealot nerf.

Since I'm a P player I obviously have a bias, but I generally felt like 2-gate openings at worst would force a zerg to not early-expand on a 2 player short rush distance map. I feel like as soon as they got roaches up, it was fine. Same with if they got banelings. It just may deny an early expand.

With PvT, I feel like P needs Tier 3 to really be "okay" in that way.

Reubachi

United States40 Posts

August 29 2010 04:04 GMT

#1600

Now, I'm no expert, but wasn't the main problem across all the races the Terran bio ball? Where's that nerf? And with the zealot and tank nerf, mmm is now much more viable. Like somebody else said, doesn't Blizzard play their game?