• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:54
CEST 08:54
KST 15:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 20250Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202578RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder1EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Serral wins EWC 2025 TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 601 users

Situation report 1 posted! - Page 63

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 101 Next
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
August 28 2010 03:23 GMT
#1241
Very very solid changes. The reaper and bunker change was what i wanted, just some key seconds to prepare for more.
sAviOr...
Nephrahim
Profile Joined August 2010
United States38 Posts
August 28 2010 03:24 GMT
#1242
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


I always loved these theories on WoW Class balance Everyone was convinced everyone at Blizzard only played Shaman or Paladins, or whatever the in class was at the time.
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
August 28 2010 03:26 GMT
#1243
On August 28 2010 12:21 FireBlast! wrote:
You're forgetting that Zerg get all their units from larva, whereas only gateway units are available to warpgates... And what says you're only allowed to have one hatchery, one queen?


The fact that Zerg is gas heavy and even if you go 2-hatch 1-base you only have enough gas to support lings or roaches efficiently, (banelings you can afford but are 1-shot units so each one is a heavy gas investment, for fighting Zealots which require NO gas) and that the Protoss can secure an expansion during this time.

Also factor in that this ONLY affects Protoss EARLY GAME. Why? Because you can simply drop 1 extra Gate and HAVE THE SAME PRODUCTION AS BEFORE!

The problem is Protoss Zealot rushes are too strong, too early.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
August 28 2010 03:27 GMT
#1244
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Opinion
Profile Joined May 2010
United States236 Posts
August 28 2010 03:27 GMT
#1245
The hyperbole in this thread is off the charts.
Decko
Profile Joined May 2010
United States150 Posts
August 28 2010 03:27 GMT
#1246
I think Marauders are fine in the mid and late game, they're problem for me personally in PvT is the early game. It's so hard to stop early marauder pushes with a proxy bunker, and concussive shell is such a cheap, quick upgrade.

Other than this I think my concerns are pretty similar to everyone else's concerns.

Small maps against Zerg doing a 6 or 10 pool is going to be nearly impossible to negate with the zealot build time increase, that's just in theory though, it will have to be tested. It might turn into going 10 gate basically every game you're playing a zerg on a small map. Honestly though, I wish they would just do away with the small maps all together, they're pretty bad for the most part.
Superman does good, you're doing well.
tangwhat
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand446 Posts
August 28 2010 03:28 GMT
#1247
Anyone who is complaining about the zealot build time increase obviously doesn't realise how 2gate harass into expand gives protoss a relatively strong midgame vs the zergs one. Or how every single zerg opening is now the same because of the fact 2 gate is so strong.
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 03:35:01
August 28 2010 03:31 GMT
#1248
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

Not to mention, on the topic of TvZ, the early game abuses revolved around Reapers and/or bunker harass leading in to tank drops (typically on a cliff if possible) when the Z only had ling/roaches. Those issues are both being handled.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
August 28 2010 03:34 GMT
#1249
On August 28 2010 12:31 Spyridon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

I am sure a lot of people complained about tanks in mid-game. I know a lot of people were complaining about tanks performing too well in the mid- to late- game. That:

A) Does not mean those people were right, and
B) Does not mean that that was the reason that the matchup was imbalanced in the end.

War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
August 28 2010 03:35 GMT
#1250
On August 28 2010 12:34 VanGarde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:31 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

I am sure a lot of people complained about tanks in mid-game. I know a lot of people were complaining about tanks performing too well in the mid- to late- game. That:

A) Does not mean those people were right, and
B) Does not mean that that was the reason that the matchup was imbalanced in the end.



The fact that Blizzard statistically reviewed it, and did not rush the patch, and tested it to make sure it was the appropriate change before announcing it.... means that they WERE right!
Fraud
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada108 Posts
August 28 2010 03:35 GMT
#1251
ITT: People theorycraft about balance, without testing the actual changes in the game.

I remember when the 2 food roach balancing came out, and everyone said Roaches would be completely unusable. Look like how that turned out.
Sieziggy
Profile Joined July 2010
United States53 Posts
August 28 2010 03:38 GMT
#1252
Siege tanks are still going to be good but they won't ensure a victory if engaged while the terran army is static. I think this is huge, because a lot of terran players have become lazy by feeling completely safe against ground. Now the T player will have to worry about mass hydra, speedling / bling, meanwhile Ultras are still potent.

I anticipate some serious push back from the lower tier T players since their comfort zone is suddenly going to be violated, yet at the same time critical mass tanks will still be achievable. It's just going to require a greater investment which brings T more in line with the other races.

Very happy with the changes.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
August 28 2010 03:40 GMT
#1253
On August 28 2010 12:35 Spyridon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:34 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:31 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

I am sure a lot of people complained about tanks in mid-game. I know a lot of people were complaining about tanks performing too well in the mid- to late- game. That:

A) Does not mean those people were right, and
B) Does not mean that that was the reason that the matchup was imbalanced in the end.



The fact that Blizzard statistically reviewed it, and did not rush the patch, and tested it to make sure it was the appropriate change before announcing it.... means that they WERE right!


Yeah, because a battlecruiser nerf clearly shows that blizzard is right on track with dealing with the actual issues with possible imbalances
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 03:43:54
August 28 2010 03:43 GMT
#1254
On August 28 2010 12:40 VanGarde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:35 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:34 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:31 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

I am sure a lot of people complained about tanks in mid-game. I know a lot of people were complaining about tanks performing too well in the mid- to late- game. That:

A) Does not mean those people were right, and
B) Does not mean that that was the reason that the matchup was imbalanced in the end.



The fact that Blizzard statistically reviewed it, and did not rush the patch, and tested it to make sure it was the appropriate change before announcing it.... means that they WERE right!


Yeah, because a battlecruiser nerf clearly shows that blizzard is right on track with dealing with the actual issues with possible imbalances


Who are you to decide if BC's are too strong against ground units? They have actual statistics and testing experience to decide if it is or not.

Besides, if anything shows that they are on the right track with balance, it's their experience with Brood War.
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
August 28 2010 03:45 GMT
#1255
Dear Protoss.

If you want to nerf marauders, that's fine. That's ok. Do that.

Take out Khaydarin Amulet upgrade whil you're at it and we got a deal.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
PulseSUI
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland305 Posts
August 28 2010 03:45 GMT
#1256

Yeah, because a battlecruiser nerf clearly shows that blizzard is right on track with dealing with the actual issues with possible imbalances


BC nerf is probably because of Team Games.
4v4, 3 fight, one sits back and goes mass BC while beeing feeded with resources by the other 3.
once you reach critical mass of about 15-16, nothing can stop them on the ground.

BC nerf has basicly no influence on 1v1 what so ever.
Invictus
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Singapore2697 Posts
August 28 2010 03:49 GMT
#1257
really happy with some of the changes! although it sucked to see protoss nerfed AGAIN, and zerg being nerfed. im not too sure but i think now there should be more ways for us to transition instead going muta every single game
Lee Jaedong Fighting!
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
August 28 2010 03:49 GMT
#1258
On August 28 2010 12:43 Spyridon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 12:40 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:35 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:34 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:31 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:27 VanGarde wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:16 Spyridon wrote:
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:
On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.

Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.


The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged. I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.


Blizzard does not balance around the "noobs". If you do not recognize the reasoning behind the nerfs, you are most likely the "noob".

All of the issues discussed (aside from the BC change) I have seen discussed by multiple Pro players. They are pretty commonly recognized as existing.


Tanks have never been the problem in TvZ, the midgame and lategame between terran and zerg have been relatively balanced. The main reason for the imbalance in the matchup has been the many ways that terran can harass and wreck havoc on zerg economy in the early game, that and slow mech death pushes. The latter does not really work anymore now that zerg players magically realized that you spread your mutas out agianst an anti air aoe unit.

Nerfing the tanks is the opposite of what the matchups needs. The tank is not only the only unit which were not capable of harassing or abusing early game zerg in the first place, nerfing it and reducing its place in the mid/late game as a core unit will only fuel terrans to feel pressured to play even more abusive, with the lack of a strong backbone in the late game and the strength of zerg tier 3 you will just be even more motivated to try and harass the game to an end early on.

TvZ was fine in late game, and imbalanced in the early game, so they go about it by nerfing the tank and the battlecruiser. The logic is lost on me.


All races, not just Zerg, complained about tanks power mid-game. Look at the situation report...

"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units"

I am sure a lot of people complained about tanks in mid-game. I know a lot of people were complaining about tanks performing too well in the mid- to late- game. That:

A) Does not mean those people were right, and
B) Does not mean that that was the reason that the matchup was imbalanced in the end.



The fact that Blizzard statistically reviewed it, and did not rush the patch, and tested it to make sure it was the appropriate change before announcing it.... means that they WERE right!


Yeah, because a battlecruiser nerf clearly shows that blizzard is right on track with dealing with the actual issues with possible imbalances


Who are you to decide if BC's are too strong against ground units? They have actual statistics and testing experience to decide if it is or not.

Besides, if anything shows that they are on the right track with balance, it's their experience with Brood War.

So your argument is, blizzard can't be wrong. Hence any arguments contrary to their reasoning is by default wrong? I suppose you never happened to study logical fallacies?

Blizzard does bad balance changes all the time, they did several during the beta, and they have done several changes that they have later had to retract through new changes. They are not always correct.

Also, the entire arugment, battlecruisers are too strong against ground units is one that is not by necessity something that requires balancing. The battlecruisers was not easily counterable by ground, however it was very counterable by air. There is in reality NO ground counter for broodlords, yet that does not mean that they need to be rebalanced.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
BondGamer
Profile Joined August 2010
61 Posts
August 28 2010 03:49 GMT
#1259
I am very sad they are nerfing siege tank so much. Can't even kill a marine anymore. 35 splash against light is going to mean it takes 2-3 more shots. Tanks are going to get run over by light units, which is what siege mode is supposed to be good against.
xnub
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada610 Posts
August 28 2010 03:51 GMT
#1260
On August 28 2010 12:28 tangwhat wrote:
Anyone who is complaining about the zealot build time increase obviously doesn't realise how 2gate harass into expand gives protoss a relatively strong midgame vs the zergs one. Or how every single zerg opening is now the same because of the fact 2 gate is so strong.


This is why they did it zerg was haveing a hell of a time with terran/toss with early harsment and it would put them back SOOO hard that they would just be behind all game. Its really the only problem zerg have if they could hold of these early harsments easyer it will go ALONG way to making them more balanced.
Loving the beta !! Weeeeeeee
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 101 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 270
ProTech69
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4178
Leta 839
Larva 383
Backho 88
zelot 70
soO 68
Sacsri 54
Noble 33
scan(afreeca) 21
NotJumperer 15
[ Show more ]
Bale 10
Icarus 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 152
XcaliburYe51
League of Legends
JimRising 735
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K909
Other Games
summit1g8848
SortOf53
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1475
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 68
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta90
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota259
League of Legends
• Rush1921
• Lourlo1420
• HappyZerGling147
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
4h 6m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
WardiTV European League
1d 9h
Online Event
1d 10h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.