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On August 28 2010 13:04 therealmeal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 12:54 Darpa wrote:
I still think banelings should friend splash, just like all the AOE that other races have. Wouldn't that make them pretty useless? You shoot one and a whole pack of units dies immediately because of the chain reaction? They'd have to do a lot more damage so they could be used in fewer numbers, or have more armor, or something to balance that.
yeah, that would stop zerg players from using them as a crutch. But that said, i never said they had to do full splash damage to friendly units, could be a third of the damage or something. Or, banelings themselves could be immune, and just have the splash effect surrounding units of different types
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On August 28 2010 11:58 Grimjim wrote:
The BC nerf and Zealot is most likely because of the lower leagues.
Diamond is only the top 20% of players. The bottom 80% are probably playing the game by randomly smashing their heads against their keyboards, metaphorically of course. But the minute a Bronze league Terran learns that massing BCs is very powerful, or that a Protoss learns a two gate proxy is very difficult to stop, they are going to anger a ton of the opponents they face.
Diamond players are the top 6% in the world.
On August 28 2010 12:11 HalfAmazing wrote:The point is that Blizzard is catering to these noobs at our expense. We are rightfully outraged.  I don't object to Terran getting nerfed, I object to the seemingly random manner in which they're going about doing so. The Marauder has been a problem since day one, and for some dark and inexplicable reason they choose to nerf everything but the Marauder. I'm convinced someone in a position of authority at Blizzard has been protecting it, keeping it safe from the evil nerfstick. That person probably worships a Marauder idol at night. He dances, and prances and sings to his Marauder effigy in a bizarre ritual. My explanation may disillusion you, but when only one logical explanation remains, no matter how uncomfortable, it must be accepted as truth.
Best post in this thread.
On August 28 2010 12:14 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 12:07 nForcer wrote:
"Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units. We want a small set of light and unarmored ground units to perform better against siege tanks"
So let me get this straight. They want some CHEAP ASS UNITS to be strong vs a unit that costs 150 125 is immobile while shooting and they do this by reducing the Tank's damage by half ?
Blizzard doesn't fail to amuse me with their retardation. Now i can see Thors which do double the damage, have triple the life, are more mobile and can shoot air, being a great replacement. Too bad they are killing mech play, but oh well. They want us to mass Marauder ? KK NP GL NO RE You think 150/125 is expensive? Have you ever looked at how high the Tanks kill counts are? 25+ kills in a single game with a 150/125 unit is clearly not fair.
The only reason why a tank *should* be getting 25+ kills in a high level match is if it is in the back lines picking off zerglings. In any other case, the opponent of the terran is blindly throwing units in to a tank line without thinking things through. That's the fault of the player, not the unit.
On August 28 2010 12:16 tangwhat wrote:Me too. And tbh anyone who didn't expect the reaper and zealot build times to be increased are delusional, they did those changes in phase 2 of beta but then reverted them remember? They obviously thought there were significant problems in the early game.
That's not the only thing they could have done to balance 2 gate zealot. For instance, how about making chrono boost cost 35 energy on buildings that aren't nexuses? I don't know if that would be balanced, as I'm just throwing a number out there, but it is still an alternative to increasing the build time of the zealot, which I find to be rather ridiculous, and I don't even play that race.
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They need to do something about marauder dps man...
They do the same amount of dps as zealots to armored units, but zealots cant even touch them
Stalkers do slightly less dps than dragoons and similar dps as marines, what is that >_>
They even cost more than marauders :T
Stim = win after that ;D
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I don't think some people realize that this is only a "situation report" and not FULL patch notes lol.
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Why? People were still 2 gating even when zealot build time was increased by 5 seconds during phase 2 of beta and people were fine with that.
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I think the terran nerfs are good, especially with regards to the tanks, but they still haven't addressed the most fundamental issue of ZvT at the moment. That is the scouting. Terran has perfect/ near perfect scout on Z with their scans, while Zergs play almost a guessing game against T.
decreasing reaper build time probably won't change things by much. They will still harass and deny z expansions and still be a perfectly viable T opening. And this is only just one of the T openings. The issue is not so much how to counter reapers if you know they are coming, but just how do you know when to throw down a roach warren without having to guess.
This is worsened by the fact that, despite T's perfect intel on Z, if T chooses a strategy that is countered by Z, e.g. fast hellions vs fast roaches, the game would only be roughly even, or maybe slightly in Z's favour at best. Z have no information against a T who knows how to deny slow overlords...
Meanwhile, if Z guesses wrong, which is very likely given how many openings T has, it is very nearly an autoloss, or at least result in terrible terrible damage from which there is slim hope of recovery. If you don't see the fast starport with your slow overlord, for example, and instead only see the factory as part of the T's wall-off, it is likely that you would make roaches in anticipation of hellions, where the T actually goes for banshees!
Everything T does is counterable, but only if you know it is coming. If you don't, you have to guess, while the T doesn't have to because of scan, and therefore is more able to design strategies to counter what Z is doing. This is worsened by the fact that a wrong guess by Z is so so unforgiving, while for the terran it just means that the game isn't an immediate win for him.
The point of my post is that: what is broken in TvZ is the disparity in scouting and information available to each race, with Z having to virtually guess, while the T has perfect knowledge, and this is worsened by the fact that one wrong guess by either results in totally different consequences in terms of severity, one almost trivial, and one so costly that it is fatal.
Let me re-emphasis: if you want to fix TvZ, give Z some way of scouting T early on. reacting is not a problem, and imo T units are not that imba, it is a matter of knowing whats coming so you can prepare...
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I like the changes with the zealot and reaper timing. I remember Idra talking about it in another post about how there's a small timing window where toss could just easily run over a zerg player, and this would help solve the problem. Of course it'll take time to get use to these changes, and hopefully this significant patch will help solve a lot of these balance issues.
I like all these changes and I agree with the nerf to my beautiful babies (ultras). Plus, the headbutt thing was just plain stupid.
As for rauders, I hope they do something about it...and I really hope that the possible change will make the game more balanced and not lead to Terran Tears...
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Happy to see everything here.
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I think we're missing the most important aspect of this soon-to-be patch. The last level of the campaign on brutal difficulty is going to get significantly harder.
Patch notes look pretty good, although I'm now more afraid of zerg early pressure then ever (<-- P Player), Personally I would've decreased the effectiveness of stim on Marauders slightly but little changes are nice.
I wonder if we'll see this patch applied before the conclusion of any major tournaments (I'm thinking GSL).
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On August 28 2010 13:59 Rampager wrote:
I think we're missing the most important aspect of this soon-to-be patch. The last level of the campaign on brutal difficulty is going to get significantly harder.
Patch notes look pretty good, although I'm now more afraid of zerg early pressure then ever (<-- P Player), Personally I would've decreased the effectiveness of stim on Marauders slightly but little changes are nice.
I wonder if we'll see this patch applied before the conclusion of any major tournaments (I'm thinking GSL).
Single player balance is completely separated from multiplayer balance. They said this during beta.
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Before I make any comments, I would like to see the actual patch notes before judging. They would not release a blog like this unless they thought it was necessary. Probably to judge our reaction and look for anything they might have missed. Probably to show they were doing internal testing themselves to find a solution.
I am sure that these are not the full patch notes, nor the final patches, so most discussion is irrelevant. It's just theory until we actually have the real patch notes and are playing the game with every patch that they think is relevant included.
So I say just wait for the real patch notes to start our opinions of them. It could change from now to then. But this is still nice.
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On August 28 2010 13:48 5unrise wrote:
I think the terran nerfs are good, especially with regards to the tanks, but they still haven't addressed the most fundamental issue of ZvT at the moment. That is the scouting. Terran has perfect/ near perfect scout on Z with their scans, while Zergs play almost a guessing game against T. I agree.
Random idea I just had- have changelings auto-burrow once they get hit instead of auto-dying.
Edit- although thinking about it more maybe that isn't good enough unless the changeling can burrow move, but only burrow when the enemy hits it.
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On August 28 2010 12:53 CharlieMurphy wrote:
yea tbh, I think the tank is being slightly overnerfed. How many lings does 1 tank shot kill? What happens when the target ling has armor? etc
I'm also kind of surprised that we didn't see any mention of thor ground range being reduced or hellion hp being reduce.
Also, I'm really really surprised that the only map change is Desert Oasis. Every single map has problems and they need to be addressed.
Terrans need to remember also that self splash from tanks on their bio balls will be lessened as well. Although since lings are living longer and more able to get to their units it's also good that their tanks are not 1 shotting their marines as well.
Yeah I feel like siege tank was way over nerfed to be honest. I wish they would just fix the AI to overkill already instead of lowering the damage over and over. I wouldn't even care if they did the original 60 damage with overkill (although 50 would be the most reasonable). I'm also thinking since these aren't the actual patch notes that we may get new maps when the patch is actually released (or changes to current maps).
Zealot nerf is a little ridiculous, I felt protoss was the most balanced of the 3 races (not too OP, not too underwhelming). IMO they should add a few seconds to gateway build time to if you really feel that proxy is that strong in pvp.
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Does anyone think pvp will be even more rock-paper-scissors after the zealot nerf? In the Korean warpgate strat, the first 4 zealots will still warp in at the same time as before. However, the defender's zealots are coming out of a regular gateway so they are 5 seconds slower. It's only the 2nd set of 4 zealots that will be slower, so the warpgate user inherently has an advantage over the defending player.
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I think these changes are all fair. I'm happy with the new patch for the most part
Kinda wish zealot charge would have been lowered from 200/200 to 150/150 though... after all, I use it primarily to counter Terran infantry, which has ridiculously cheap upgrades -.-' I'm still gonna have loads of trouble with early marauder pushes. Sigh. Oh well, gonna keep refining my strategies
I wonder if the people whining about how Terran was imbalanced will smugly say "I told you so!"
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Any theories about how lots/chargelots will fare against siege tanks now?
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On August 28 2010 08:45 Lucius2 wrote:
still no marauder or emp change....
still not interested in continuing to play 1v1 :/
I'm staying off ladder for a while as well dropping a lot of games I think I should have won.. Just practicing with some friends
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On August 28 2010 14:29 rsol wrote:
Any theories about how lots/chargelots will fare against siege tanks now?
Chargelots should work fairly well, even with some MM in front of them. I use them extremely often, with very good success
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Are zealots considered light armored units? If so, what about stalkers, sentries, HT... ?
If these units arn't affected, would the seige tank nerf play any role in PvT?
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EPT
