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Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
August 27 2010 22:55 GMT
#1001
Nobody will use siege mode, TvT will be completely changed, probably into just pure MMM or maybe banshee's to soak up t he gas costs. Tanks at 125 gas will be one of the least cost effective hp-wise units that Terran will have. Thors and even banshees are more cost effective tanks, and will do better damage.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 22:59:04
August 27 2010 22:57 GMT
#1002
Something's got to happen to the Marauder, eventually. Blizzard like their 'everything is overpowered in certain situations' style of balancing, but come on. Just because it can't hit air units doesn't entitle it to demolish ground and for less cost than something that can hit air (Hydra/Stalker).

So irritating that they're slated to survive yet another patch with their unbelievably absurd cost-effectiveness.

Early-game, no problem. Mid-game, ho-lee-frakking shieet.
ArtemisKnives
Profile Joined March 2010
United States210 Posts
August 27 2010 22:57 GMT
#1003
Why do people say to buff everything as if it's any different than nerfing everything.

It's just balancing. The game is the SAME whether a unit is NERFED to fix a problem or BUFFING everything across the board to deal with said PROBLEM unit.

Nerfs AND buffs will always go hand in hand. Pull your head out of your ass instead of crying to buff everything.

Retarded.
Masters/GM S1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 Macro Toss // twitch.tv/artemisknives [1080p stream]
Karliath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2214 Posts
August 27 2010 22:58 GMT
#1004
"We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost."

I swear, the chrono boost is more of a curse than a blessing.

Everything that can be chrono boosted can potentially come out/finish too fast, so Blizzard makes those processes take longer. That said, protoss players can't chrono boost everything.
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
August 27 2010 22:58 GMT
#1005
On August 28 2010 07:44 iEchoic wrote:
The ultra nerf was 100% necessary. I posted a replay on the strategy forums a bit ago where my 180 food army got annihilated by 7-9 ultras even though my army was far more expensive and I had a good anti-ultra composition. The general consensus was "wtf, that is retarded".

Good changes overall, although I'm not a big fan of the battlecruiser change and I wish that the siege tank change made a bigger difference in TvT.

Nice work Blizzard, these proposed changes really show that they're analyzing all aspects of the game and not just giving into whining.


It's all situational. Immortals and plenty of storms can be pretty much unbeatable as long as you pick your battles. I've seen many Zergs control the entire map but lose to a Protoss building up to 200/200 on much fewer bases.
I
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
August 27 2010 22:59 GMT
#1006
Hmm... the death of tanks in TvT?
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Izzachar
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden285 Posts
August 27 2010 22:59 GMT
#1007
No I rethinked the patch and I do not like it.

Where is the infestor buff?
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 23:01:04
August 27 2010 23:00 GMT
#1008
Tanks will be interesting. Still, hydras will still get mowed :| TvT --> weird.
UisTehSux
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States693 Posts
August 27 2010 23:00 GMT
#1009
Isn't the Ultra 'nerf' actually buff from what they said? "the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target."

I'm a Terran player, and I'm interested to see how well Siege tanks are going to perfrom now. .
I underestimated that boy. No... it was not the boy I underestimated, it was the Triforce of Courage.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 23:10:16
August 27 2010 23:01 GMT
#1010
Wrong thread lol
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 23:02:43
August 27 2010 23:01 GMT
#1011
On August 28 2010 07:58 Gigaudas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 07:44 iEchoic wrote:
The ultra nerf was 100% necessary. I posted a replay on the strategy forums a bit ago where my 180 food army got annihilated by 7-9 ultras even though my army was far more expensive and I had a good anti-ultra composition. The general consensus was "wtf, that is retarded".

Good changes overall, although I'm not a big fan of the battlecruiser change and I wish that the siege tank change made a bigger difference in TvT.

Nice work Blizzard, these proposed changes really show that they're analyzing all aspects of the game and not just giving into whining.


It's all situational. Immortals and plenty of storms can be pretty much unbeatable as long as you pick your battles. I've seen many Zergs control the entire map but lose to a Protoss building up to 200/200 on much fewer bases.


That's just how the match-up works. Zerg has map-control right from the get-go thanks to Speedlings. They might need more bases to win, but they have plenty of opportunity to get them and don't have much trouble denying the Protoss any more than one expansion a lot of the time.

Getting your 2nd expansion on Metalopolis is an exercise in driving nails through your genitalia.
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
August 27 2010 23:02 GMT
#1012
Okay, why is everyone saying this will change TvT? This won't change TvT at all. All the units tanks would hit are armored except for marines, and they'll die in the same amount of volleys with combat shield and will suck against tanks either way.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Furycrab
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada456 Posts
August 27 2010 23:02 GMT
#1013
On August 28 2010 07:53 Izzachar wrote:
I like the changes.

However hydra is just such a bad unit vs terran the tank nerf does not make it viable IMO.

Reapers own them

Helions own them

Marauders are cost effective against them

Marines are cost effective against them

Thors are cost effective against them

I'd bet tanks are still pretty efficient against them

I do not see a place for the hydra in T even with these changes. Maybe I'm wrong though,...



And what about T should do now. Having the best defense in the game I always assumed should lead to great harass potential brat-ok style. Drop everywhere and harass opponent to death as he cannot enter your base. Instead of just turtling in a base whole game then roll out and win this seems like a much more reasonable tactic.



In small numbers vs unupgraded tanks you'll notice that extra shot to kill hydras, or when moving into a line of tanks that is just starting to siege up. You obviously won't be able to A move a bunch of hydras into a sieged up tank line.


The tank change I think is mostly TvP (TvT might change the dynamic a bit, but not all that much) Chargelots will take possibly 2 more shots to kill? Mix in chargelots + storms and you have a ground siege breaker for the mid game, kinda old nostalgia going of Zealot bombs in BW.

Too tired to come up with something witty.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
August 27 2010 23:02 GMT
#1014
On August 28 2010 08:00 UisTehSux wrote:
Isn't the Ultra 'nerf' actually buff from what they said? "the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target."

I'm a Terran player, and I'm interested to see how well Siege tanks are going to perfrom now. .


They will deal 5 less damage to armored. That's the nerf.
I'll call Nada.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
August 27 2010 23:03 GMT
#1015
On August 28 2010 07:51 PulseSUI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 07:10 RodrigoX wrote:
Ive heard Kiwikaki complain on multiple occasions. HuK once or twice


White-ra also complained about them, not sure if it was about them specificly or more general about terrans.

HasoObs RAGED HARD during the games against LuciferoN because of his marauder only play.

Tester complained on multiple occassions about imbalance when he was beaten to pupl by Ensnares marauder only play, there is even a replay up on youtube where he complains about it.

Socke also said something if i remember correctly, not sure what it was thought.

Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 07:09 Psychlone wrote:
Tanks did 70 x 75% = 52,5 dmg to Zealots (70 to shields).


correct me if i am wrong, but Zealots where also considered Small -> only took 50% as well.

Shields in BW and SC2 took full damage, so the first tank shot did 70 to zealots(i think they were 60/100?) so iirc a single siege shot left a zealot with like 95 hp or something
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Droodjerky
Profile Joined May 2010
United States76 Posts
August 27 2010 23:03 GMT
#1016
On August 28 2010 07:59 Izzachar wrote:
No I rethinked the patch and I do not like it.

Where is the infestor buff?


Infestors takes 3 shots from a tank now and not two?
Kpyolysis32
Profile Joined April 2010
553 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 23:09:05
August 27 2010 23:04 GMT
#1017
Why is everybody saying that MMM is going to completely replace Tanks now? The only difference that this made is that Tanks now 2-hit Marines instead of 1-hitting them, and Tanks will still rape Marines. Additionally, after the Tanks get +3, they'll go back to 1 hitting them. This really makes a tiny difference.

EDIT: Looks like iEchoic beat me too it, and also looks like I forgot combat shields. After Combat Shields, Tanks kill Marines in the same number of hitsas they used to, except that upgrades no longer allow them to 1 hit the Rines. It still matters very little.
Man, do I not keep this up to date, or what?
refraxion
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada88 Posts
August 27 2010 23:04 GMT
#1018
Good changes all around, I'm a terran player and I already forseen this coming. Just what we needed IMO!

Now lets hope people will stop with the QQ when they get beat by T.
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
August 27 2010 23:06 GMT
#1019
On August 28 2010 07:58 Karliath wrote:
"We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost."

I swear, the chrono boost is more of a curse than a blessing.

Everything that can be chrono boosted can potentially come out/finish too fast, so Blizzard makes those processes take longer. That said, protoss players can't chrono boost everything.


Chrono Boost is really overvalued in my opinion. 50 energy will get you 20 seconds off production, which is 2/3 of a Zealot now, 1/2 of one if this patch goes through as is, compared to 50 energy for a MULE which gives enough minerals for 5.4 Marines. I'd take the Marines any day of the week. Really.
Stegosaur
Profile Joined May 2007
Netherlands1231 Posts
August 27 2010 23:08 GMT
#1020
Siege Tanks already dealt half damage to small units in BW... 35 points of it, to be exact. The same as what they're throwing out now
O_o
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