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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:02 tacrats wrote: You should be scouting anyways earlier on steppes after your pylon if your scared of a 6 pool. If you dont scout it thats your problem not blizzards. which is kind of ironic because this is the reason why tehy nerf zealots, the lecks of scouting | ||
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
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cr4ckshot
United States291 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:02 travis wrote: dude, how do u have a "few zealots" 1 zealot pops out and instantly dies to the zerglings standing there? where does "a few zealots" come from?? You don't have to rally zealots to their death. | ||
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Nitroflash
United States12 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:02 tacrats wrote: im loling hard at people complaining about the nerfs, especially for the wrong reasons. protoss, stop qqing about 6 pool, you have always had to defend with probes this is no different. his 6 lings will get owned by your 10+ probes easily so please. You should be scouting anyways earlier on steppes after your pylon if your scared of a 6 pool. If you dont scout it thats your problem not blizzards. Once you kill the lings, he will have 1-2 larva for reinforcements anyways since he has no queen that early. So if you defend it you pretty much won already unless your dumb. oh the terran tank nerf... how appropriate and long overdue. Sorry terran that your tanks dont obliterate everything before they can even reach your lines anymore. now a few light units will be able to make it to your units! 'All the tanks are useless now' posters are HILARIOUS. You just dont get how effective tanks are, you think that insta-killing everything defines their effectiveness? Please, siege tanks are still one of the most powerful units in the game, especially all that has changed is dmg against light units, but its ok you still have hellions! poor terran will now have to use more diveristy in the units, position units, and also micro a bit better this time around in order to crush armies, just like the other races have to do! Oh i just love it, and i knew it was only a matter of time. how sweet it feels. cant wait for the patch so i can experience the QQ in game after all the horrible terran players who think they are good finally start losing games they didnt deserve to win. im seriously loling at all of the 'im going to switch races now' posts too. beautiful! I don't know about you, but if I were 6pooling a protoss after this patch I'd make 6 lings, run them in seconds before a zealot pops out, micro enough to kill enough probes to get the probe count to less than 6 (which is so easy Day[9]'s grandmother could do it), all while building drones after these 6 lings. Does that sound like the P is in a favorable position? Also, 6 lings could just surround and kill the initial zealot. Not that I think that would be better than what I just said I'd do. Edit--no offense to Day[9] or his grandmother, just referencing that one daily where he talked about reapers and zealots. | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
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sl0w
United States447 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:03 xDaunt wrote: I don't really blame blizzard too much for nerfing the zealot to help out ZvP, but did they totally miss how this is going to further screw up PvT? With the new zealot nerf, how exactly are protoss players supposed to stop the early-mid game terran bioball now? It was already VERY difficult. So now protoss is supposed to do it with a smaller army? This obviously isn't a complete list. They actually aren't addressing the zvt problem and zvz wasn't changed at all. As you said zeal nerfs hurts protoss so they'll change terran if they deem it necessary. | ||
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Thunderflesh
United States382 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:54 Trepanation wrote: Why Are protoss STILL crying. This patch was in beta and it didnt make 6 pool op what so ever. While I wouldn't word it like this, isn't he right? I.e., that the last patch in beta had zealots at 38 seconds. I don't remember it breaking PvZ... | ||
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MontyZ
United States1 Post
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kGold
Canada66 Posts
And I honestly think Blizzard has tested the toss nerf vs. zerg 6/7 pool and have validated that it still works. Think, people. They made this game from nothing, surely they would think of that and test it out? | ||
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JudoChopper
England148 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:02 tacrats wrote: protoss, stop qqing about 6 pool, you have always had to defend with probes this is no different. his 6 lings will get owned by your 10+ probes easily so please. You should be scouting anyways earlier on steppes after your pylon if your scared of a 6 pool. If you dont scout it thats your problem not blizzards. Once you kill the lings, he will have 1-2 larva for reinforcements anyways since he has no queen that early. So if you defend it you pretty much won already unless your dumb. I scout at 8 food with Protoss vs Zerg, even then its a close call getting a zealot out to defend, probes will kill the first wave of Zerglings, but I will lose some probes (which is big in the early game especially if i'm having to chrono my Zealot) .Zerg gains the econ. advantage from there on pretty easily. | ||
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Trepanation
United States111 Posts
Please read the notes word for word think about it then read the thread. 6pool vs Toss is not going to be crazy op. This change was a hidden change in phase 2 of beta and no one said a word about the opness. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
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Azerbaijan
United States660 Posts
I'm not sure how I feel about the zealot change. I can see it being hard for short rush distance maps like Steppes overall it seems ok. We can theorycraft about it all day but we won't know for sure how it affects PvZ until the patch actually comes and I'm sure there will be more changes added by then. Blizzard is not going to intentionally break a matchup, I believe all the changes they make are carefully considered before the are implemented and we should give the devs more credit for their work; they have a hard job. | ||
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dolpiff
France300 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:39 deo1 wrote: While the general opinion is that siege tanks need to be addressed, I'm concerned that this nerf might take the 'siege' out of the siege tank. Sieged tanks now do less base damage to units of both light and armored types than unsieged tanks. eg. Unsieged damage per unit time (before and after this potential patch): light 14.4 armored 24 sieged damage per unit time (before patch): light 16.7 armored 16.7 sieged damage per unit time (after patch): light 11.6 armored 16.7 Before, sieged did more base damage to light, now it does less damage to both types. So the only benefit to sieged tanks as a result of this patch is range and splash. These benefits are more difficult to analyze because the sieged tank will have variable dps in addition to its unsieged mode depending on its sight and the speed of its target traveling through its sight range. As well as the number and "clumpness" of those target units. However, it's easy to imagine many scenarios where there's no reason to siege at all. Will this lead to balance? Maybe. But it might seriously alter the function of one of the coolest units in the SC universe. Source and method: + Show Spoiler + http://sc2armory.com/game/terran/units/siege-tank base damage per unit time = (damage + bonus)/speed note: total base damage might be larger for sieged because added sight means a target is fired upon for a longer duration. your argument is totally voided by splash from siege mode splash potentially increase damage by x3 in many/most cases (hitting balls) when the splash is applied to 2-5 nearby targets aswell | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:05 Nitroflash wrote: I don't know about you, but if I were 6pooling a protoss after this patch I'd make 6 lings, run them in seconds before a zealot pops out, micro enough to kill enough probes to get the probe count to less than 6 (which is so easy Day[9]'s grandmother could do it), all while building drones after these 6 lings. Does that sound like the P is in a favorable position? Also, 6 lings could just surround and kill the initial zealot. Not that I think that would be better than what I just said I'd do. Nice theorycraft, might work against a bronze player who just lets his 10+ probes get picked off 1 by 1 by 6 lings. when you see 6 lings that early you don just say OH MY ZEALOT WILL KILL THEM!!! no, you send your damn probes to help the zealot before it pops out. Its stupid to sit there herpderpin waiting for that zealot come out when its going to die if u leave it on its own anyways. On August 28 2010 05:08 JudoChopper wrote: I scout at 8 food with Protoss vs Zerg, even then its a close call getting a zealot out to defend, probes will kill the first wave of Zerglings, but I will lose some probes (which is big in the early game especially if i'm having to chrono my Zealot) .Zerg gains the econ. advantage from there on pretty easily. Micro your probes better. If a zerg 6 pools and out econs you its because you failed in defending it. | ||
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
Tech Lab: 25 seconds. Marauder: 30 seconds. Marauder: 30 seconds. Total: 110 seconds. Against: Zealot: 38 seconds. Cybernetics: 50 seconds. Stalker: 42 seconds. Zealot: 38 seconds. Total: 168 seconds. There's a 58 second period where the Terran player needs to travel to your base with the 1 Marine/2 Marauders. During this time, Concussive Shells will be researched and I fear the Protoss player will be in severe trouble. Looking at every map, is there a walking distance that takes 58 seconds? I'd argue most take a lot less. It feels like Protoss are having their units' build time balanced around Chrono Boost. That's all fine and dandy but Chrono Boost is sometimes used on upgrades, and in this scenario (where you need two Zealots and a Stalker) to survive ... I think the Protoss player will be dead before the Zealot comes out. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:05 cr4ckshot wrote: You don't have to rally zealots to their death. so u have to chronoboost out zealots *AND* sacrifice buildings and then even still let the zerg run inside your base sure, you'll survive but it just doesn't sound very fair | ||
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Iggyhopper
United States259 Posts
Use probes to fend off until zealot arrives. Use probes with zealot to attack. How hard is that to understand? We could handle it in 1.0, we can handle it in 1.1. Besides, you are not accounting for 4-base maps, where the zerg player does not know where you spawned. 2-base maps, you should always assume the worst. Scout early then, damn. | ||
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dogmeatstew
Canada574 Posts
On August 28 2010 05:05 cr4ckshot wrote: You don't have to rally zealots to their death. No way. I don't believe the lies. Edit: After seeing other threads pop up about this maybe the thread title should be changed to include something about "Patch 1.1 changes"? | ||
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