|
On August 28 2010 04:53 Voyager I wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:48 De4ngus wrote:On August 28 2010 04:42 opiuman wrote:On August 28 2010 04:39 deo1 wrote:While the general opinion is that siege tanks need to be addressed, I'm concerned that this nerf might take the 'siege' out of the siege tank. Sieged tanks now do less base damage to units of both light and armored types than unsieged tanks. eg. Unsieged damage per unit time (before and after this potential patch): light 14.4 armored 24 sieged damage per unit time (before patch): light 16.7 armored 16.7 sieged damage per unit time (after patch): light 11.6 armored 16.7 Before, sieged did more base damage to light, now it does less damage to both types. So the only benefit to sieged tanks as a result of this patch is range and splash. These benefits are more difficult to analyze because the sieged tank will have variable dps in addition to its unsieged mode depending on its sight and the speed of its target traveling through its sight range. As well as the number and "clumpness" of those target units. However, it's easy to imagine many scenarios where there's no reason to siege at all. Will this lead to balance? Maybe. But it might seriously alter the function of one of the coolest units in the SC universe. Source and method: + Show Spoiler + This is however, the same way it was in sc1. Tanks always did more DPS unsieged but the sieging buys you the range at the cost of less DPS Please don't make stuff up. Sieged tanks had more dps in Broodwar. The only reason to fight unsieged was when you needed to be more mobile, like when clearing out an abandoned base or trying to kill someone with 2 fac. Still, the only light units with enough health for this to matter once you have a reasonable number of Tanks are Zealots, which just got nerfed, and Hydras, which still suck vs Tanks and needed help in ZvT.
Ummm, hydras will always suck vs masses of tanks, lol. You can't get much better than this patch. But yeah, can't say I like the zealot change.
|
I wish the Roach would get buffed. Even a movespeed buff would be fine.
|
It's not just that their changes don't make sense, it's that their reasoning doesn't make sense. Blizzard is completely out of touch with their own game.
Blizzard please, hire some competent players to help you out because things like BC and Zealot nerf are just laughable.
|
On August 28 2010 04:56 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:55 AnodyneSea wrote:On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? You wall off to wait for a zealot to come out........ and it is a good plan because it works....... It's a bad plan. If you cancel the pylon, your behind minerals, if you let it build you just let the zerg expand guilt free WHILE eating your pylons up.
joke?
6pooling zerg now is ahead because you built an extra pylon?
expand guilt free after 6pooling sounds like an easy theorycraft strat
you KILL the pylon when you want to move out
|
Hmmm. As a Protoss player, I'm having the hardest time against Terran, and the problem is not tanks and battle cruisers, but early game bio aggression. I expected them to nerf that a little bit or just buff early game Zerg, which would've been fine with me. But now they make it even harder to defend against that? o_O
|
On August 28 2010 04:53 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? This is the truth right here. Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:51 pechkin wrote:
6 pool is not a strategy, its killed by pure workers, stop crying... This patch makes it a viable strat, and if your killing lings with workers you are losing. Try learning Protoss before you spout off stuff like this.
It is not a viable strat and you aren't losing if probes kill everything the Zerg invested in...
Complaining about 6pools is as if a zerg would complain about scouting a 2gate or cannons when they are already up in your base "WUT CAN I DU?"
|
On August 28 2010 04:55 AnodyneSea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? You wall off to wait for a zealot to come out........ and it is a good plan because it works.......
and then your zealot dies to zerglings
how is that a good plan?
|
On August 28 2010 04:53 Psychlone wrote:
All good. Thanks Blizz.
Issues resolved :
Strenght of Protoss All-in Gate pushes v All
Strenght of Mass Reaper v Zerg
Rediculousness of Tanks even in small numbers as a support (who needs Medivacs when you got Tanks?)
Absurd uselessness of Ultras against PF and depot/turret lines (See Idra vs Drewbie on Kulas)
And about the 6-pool rush becoming too strong vs Toss, you people are just talking through your hats.
Here are the numbers:
Gateway + Chrono-boosted zealot now :
65 + 24.75 = 89.75 secs
After patch :
65 + 28.5 = 93.5 secs
That's 3,75 secs... Just send your scout 1 food earlier. Or if you're really that upset, open with Forge 45 + Cannon 40 = 85 secs.
That's almost 5 seconds more than what you have now. It's perfectly safe.
Chrono Boost lasts 20 seconds and increases production speed by 50%. Since the added amount (50%) is 1/3 of the new total (150%), this means all Chrono Boost does is knock 6.66 seconds off whatever is being made, which is where the flaw in your maths lies.
Gateway + Chrono boosted Zealot now:
65 + (33 - 6.66) = 91.33 seconds
After patch:
65 + (38 - 6.66) = 96.33 seconds
Chrono Boost isn't some magic speed boost that makes everything magical and fast, all it does is knock 6.66 seconds off whatever is being made.
|
On August 28 2010 04:59 FrogOfWar wrote:
Hmmm. As a Protoss player, I'm having the hardest time against Terran, and the problem is not tanks and battle cruisers, but early game bio aggression. I expected them to nerf that a little bit or just buff early game Zerg, which would've been fine with me. But now they make it even harder to defend against that? o_O
Nah, you just need to get better.
|
On August 28 2010 04:54 Trepanation wrote:
Why Are protoss STILL crying. This patch was in beta and it didnt make 6 pool op what so ever.
maybe but it make toss FE impossible which is kind of lame
|
On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right?
Well ive lost to this. You wall with 2 gate and pylon (or probably 2pylon gate too) then when you have a few zealots you can kill your own pylon and push the lings back. Seems worth the 100minerals considering the build the zerg does.
|
On August 28 2010 04:59 FrogOfWar wrote:
Hmmm. As a Protoss player, I'm having the hardest time against Terran, and the problem is not tanks and battle cruisers, but early game bio aggression. I expected them to nerf that a little bit or just buff early game Zerg, which would've been fine with me. But now they make it even harder to defend against that? o_O
Wall off ramp with sentries?
|
Wow, another nerf to siege tank damage. Why can't Blizzard just fix the splash and get rid of the horrible "smart tank fire." Problem solved.
|
im loling hard at people complaining about the nerfs, especially for the wrong reasons.
protoss, stop qqing about 6 pool, you have always had to defend with probes this is no different. his 6 lings will get owned by your 10+ probes easily so please. You should be scouting anyways earlier on steppes after your pylon if your scared of a 6 pool. If you dont scout it thats your problem not blizzards. Once you kill the lings, he will have 1-2 larva for reinforcements anyways since he has no
queen that early. So if you defend it you pretty much won already unless your dumb.
oh the terran tank nerf... how appropriate and long overdue. Sorry terran that your tanks dont obliterate everything before they can even reach your lines anymore. now a few light units will be able to make it to your units! 'All the tanks are useless now' posters are HILARIOUS. You just dont get how effective tanks are, you think that insta-killing everything defines their effectiveness? Please, siege tanks are still one of the most powerful units in the game, especially all that has changed is dmg against light units, but its ok you still have hellions! poor terran will now have to use more diveristy in the units, position units, and also micro a bit better this time around in order to crush armies, just like the other races have to do! Oh i just love it, and i knew it was only a matter of time. how sweet it feels. cant wait for the patch so i can experience the QQ in game after all the horrible terran players who think they are good finally start losing games they didnt deserve to win.
im seriously loling at all of the 'im going to switch races now' posts too. beautiful!
|
On August 28 2010 05:01 Medzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? Well ive lost to this. You wall with 2 gate and pylon then when you have a few zealots you can kill your own pylon and push the lings back. Seems worth the 100minerals considering the build the zerg does.
dude, how do u have a "few zealots"
1 zealot pops out and instantly dies to the zerglings standing there?
where does "a few zealots" come from??
|
I'm really pleased with the chnages. My major fear versus Terran was a him reaching a point where he has so many siege tanks that only 200 food worth of ultra is going to be any use against it. While against Protoss my greatest fear was scouting a zealot rush too late and losing idiotically. Both of my major fears have been addressed.
While I think there are still some other issues out there, they can be sorted out over time. Though hopefully, the glaring silliness of endless zealot rushes, reaper spam, and 15 tank army of doom will end for the time being. Muta-Ling is actually going to be a totally respectable strategy against both toss and terran now, without the need to introduce a roach warran as a panic button.
|
On August 28 2010 05:02 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 05:01 Medzo wrote:On August 28 2010 04:51 travis wrote:On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote:
Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options.
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? Well ive lost to this. You wall with 2 gate and pylon then when you have a few zealots you can kill your own pylon and push the lings back. Seems worth the 100minerals considering the build the zerg does. dude, how do u have a "few zealots" 1 zealot pops out and instantly dies to the zerglings standing there? where does "a few zealots" come from??
Set rally behind the wall off and let lings slowly work on gates until you have a few.
|
I know these are the pre-patchnotes but I don't see how this helps the tvz "imbalance" at all. The problem is that zergs cannot scout against a competent terran early game so they don't know how to prepare. So now 5rax reaper is a little bit harder to pull off, and even if it fails you have an expo up. I honestly don't see how this changes tvz early game at all besides bunker rushes.
I guess it's a start, maybe?
|
A lot of people in this thread so far seem to have misspelled "attack move your probes" as the solution to 6 pool in PvZ.
Zerglings aren't nearly as powerful offensively as they used to be.
Also, people bringing up tanks doing explosive damage in BW does put the tank changes partially into perspective.
|
I don't really blame blizzard too much for nerfing the zealot to help out ZvP, but did they totally miss how this is going to further screw up PvT? With the new zealot nerf, how exactly are protoss players supposed to stop the early-mid game terran bioball now? It was already VERY difficult. So now protoss is supposed to do it with a smaller army?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
