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Deindar
United States302 Posts
I'm also a little confused about the Protoss nerf. I mean, why? The reasoning of "early aggression being too powerful" is really quite dumb. That's just imo. Lastly, the ultra nerf I really could care less about. It makes a really, really good unit into a really, very good unit. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32164 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:40 Iggyhopper wrote: Yes. You build at the front door. You will have to pull off probes to fight. You won't lose as many workers because they have that little no-collision trick you can use. I didn't say wait until the zerglings get to your mineral line. Have you ever faced a 6 pool in PvZ dude???? The entire purpose of it is surprise. You won't have a zeal at the door in time, and you more than likely won't see lings until they are right there, meaning there is no time to pull away and zeal the choke to hold for a zeal. At that point of the game, the build time increase is absolutely huge and considering how many maps invite early aggressive, the nerf will absolutely have effect there. On a short map, that is the difference between the lings being almost to your base and right on top of you. | ||
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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
@toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. | ||
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
I can't comment if lot nerf somehow affects pvt bio being stronger early on, but if it is, they should make another adjustment to fix it. Lot buildtime nerf is exactly what the game needs since it just advocates using cheap and boring start. I like the reaper/bunker nerf too obviously since I mostly play zerg. Can't tell if this completely nerfs the 5rax reap, but suppose there'll be like 1 less reaper harrassing you while you get that speed up for lings, so at least its for better. I understand ultras may feel like going through armies too fast now, so that nerf seems appropriate. I also like the ram being taken off, now ultras may actually be able to take down pfort/cannondefenses better. DO change sounds like they might make map worth not keeping thumbed down all the time. Yes I play zerg and I thumb down DO, it's that bad. BC change is also spot on. It's good that BCs actually are nerfed before they get used more than this. They have no realistic counters currently except for vikings. It's not supposed to be totally counterless just because it costs the most. It's just not often on the table for discussion since it can rarely be seen somewhere else than ffa. Tank change is for the better. They got it right that it melts all ground too hard -> now at least some units survive a bit longer. This may give hydras a chance to be viable in zvt sometimes, and zealots might become more of tank counters than they were, towards how they were in SC1. Whoever thinks over half of the changes were bad has to be biased imo. I can see that it doesn't address absolutely everything that is wrong with balance in everybody's opinion, but all the changes should make sense for someone who has played all races. | ||
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virusak
Czech Republic344 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:42 opiuman wrote: This is however, the same way it was in sc1. Tanks always did more DPS unsieged but the sieging buys you the range at the cost of less DPS Please don't make stuff up. Sieged tanks had more dps in Broodwar. The only reason to fight unsieged was when you needed to be more mobile, like when clearing out an abandoned base or trying to kill someone with 2 fac. | ||
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
Wasnt this patch nerf for lots in beta and you still have no problem pulling probs a moving the lings and pulling back weak probes? Sorry a little work is to much for toss >.> Stop over reacting please Exactly my thought. When I see infinite Lings evaporating to some Zeals, I'm starting to think of this change as Zerg buff. Maybe I can skip Roaches now :O | ||
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sl0w
United States447 Posts
 Z is clearly the big winner from this patch (though it's not really a surprise...) | ||
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Nitroflash
United States12 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:45 RxN wrote: Yes, and if zerg can hold it off with just their drones, you should have no trouble holding it off for the few seconds it takes your zealot to pop. But I do enjoy your tears. Heaven forbid you can't 2-gate and a-move into the zerg base and inflict enough economic damage to make them have to play catch-up for the next 20 minutes. A Z can hold if off with their drones because they know that their lings will be popping sometime soon to attack the opposing lings back as long as they didn't do some kind of 14hatch, which would be rather stupid in ZvZ. However, once zerglings get inside a P's base the zealot is just too slow to do much at all as long as the Z micros a bit. | ||
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seRapH
United States9830 Posts
increasing the build time of any race's t1 units by 5 seconds does not seem like a good idea... i understand they're trying to lower the effectiveness of proxy gates, but couldnt they do that just by making better ladder maps? XP | ||
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Asdkmoga
United States496 Posts
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eth3n
718 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:48 Medzo wrote: Cant wait till tanks, reapers, BCs, and 2gate is nerfed! Only thing I would ask for now is removal of lair requirement for overseer for some scouting options. @toss worried about 7pool. Just wall off when you scout it? Most maps and distances you should be worried you can check first. I think itll be annoying to deal with but definitely not unstoppable. yeah, just wall off and then watch as lings slowly kill your buildings... ?? good plan right? | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On August 28 2010 02:27 Mastermind wrote:I'm glad they recognize the tank needs to be fixed, but I dont know if their solution is a good one. I think siege mode should just be removed all together. That would greatly improve tvt and help with the other mus a lot, as well as with team games. It is lame in 2v2 when a terran masses tanks and his ally just builds support units. It becomes impossible to break the tank line. Good suggestion, they should also do 5 dmg and shoot only at buildings. Was this guy even thinking when he posted that ? Seriously ? Awesome post On August 28 2010 02:26 SichuanPanda wrote: Quite simply I don't see a 5 second build time nerf to reapers affecting the ability of a T to get one in your base before you can have the necessary defense even if the reapers were scouted. In fact with the nitro packs upgrade remaining as is, it would make reapers MORE powerful not less as nitro packs and the reaper completing could be timed almost perfectly to finish simultaneously. So, a 5s time added on the reaper could be make them more powerful, because you could time it to finish the reaper at the same time as nitro pack ? I dont understand how you can possibly think that this would make a unit more powerful, I mean, with 5s less building time, just leave him in your base before he has nitro pack, and at least he provides a form of defense, how is he more powerful if he spawns later with pack ? Hell still have the nitro pack at the exact same time in the game, you will just have a offensive unit earlier in your base ? Sheer awesomeness. On topic : Pretty awesome list of nerfs, 2 gate was really a pain on 2 player maps, hydras will see a use in ZvT, etc etc. | ||
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pechkin
158 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
It was scouting/lack of standard responses that was the problem and this still hasn't been addressed. I don't even think the tank or reaper nerfs were necessary at all. | ||
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lt.dunbar
United States29 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:39 deo1 wrote: While the general opinion is that siege tanks need to be addressed, I'm concerned that this nerf might take the 'siege' out of the siege tank. Sieged tanks now do less base damage to units of both light and armored types than unsieged tanks. ... ... Before, sieged did more base damage to light, now it does less damage to both types. So the only benefit to sieged tanks as a result of this patch is range and splash. These benefits are more difficult to analyze because the sieged tank will have variable dps in addition to its unsieged mode depending on its sight and the speed of its target traveling through its sight range. As well as the number and "clumpness" of those target units. However, it's easy to imagine many scenarios where there's no reason to siege at all. Will this lead to balance? Maybe. But it might seriously alter the function of one of the coolest units in the SC universe. The benefits of range and splash are huge, just because there harder to analyze doesn't mean they should be ignored. Tanks will be fine, and used mostly in siege mode. I think people are really overreacting to this nerf. It just means tanks won't dominate all ground as hard, and that you will need to protect tanks better from lings and zealots. The hellion owns light units so having tanks be a little worse against light won't suddenly make the useless. | ||
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Phant
United States737 Posts
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
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