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Forum Index > SC2 General
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dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
August 27 2010 18:15 GMT
#301
TBH this might make zerg a little too strong against protoss.
Baller Fanclub || CheAse Fanclub || Scarlett Fanclub || LJD FIGHTING!
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
August 27 2010 18:15 GMT
#302
On August 28 2010 03:12 DTown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 03:10 imPERSONater wrote:
Wow, I felt terran is strong, but that tank change is going to allow zergs to dominate them in my opinion. Zerglings are going to live SOOOOO much longer and that will be very hard to deal with.

so Terran might have to build a couple extra hellions?


Might as well build just hellions because tanks won't be much use against anything other than roach and ultra. But I'm maining zerg so I am in no way complaining
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
gerundium
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands786 Posts
August 27 2010 18:15 GMT
#303
On August 28 2010 02:59 ganil wrote:
With that huge tank nerf, how are the terran supposed to counter muta + ling/bling ?

I mean... banelings don't have any counter anymore.


tanks.But instead of just adding 4 tanks as an afterthought you are more commited to something as Terran.
Or get a quick armory for +1 vehicle weapons to one shot zerglings again.

NOTE: this should open up a timing window where zerg can use +1 carapace lings to attack low tank count of an early mech player before +1 attack is out.
orgolove
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Vatican City State1650 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 18:16:30
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#304
Wow, tanks are... uh... kinda useless now. I mean, they're still somewhat ok due to their range, but now marauders will do their dps job so much better.

Oh, and wtf their costs remain the same. Lol...
초대 갓, 이영호 | First God, Lee Young Ho
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#305
I think Blizzard did a great job choosing what to patch. I do heavily agree that BCs and Ultras need a slight nerf. They both serve as 'I win' units in late game TvP and ZvP. I am questionable about the zealot nerf though. I agree with them that zealot rushes are a bit tough to manage. In both PvP and PvZ, zealots can be quite dominating early game, but an extra 5 seconds on zealots means less zealots in the midgame. That means in PvT, Terran would have the advantage from start to end, while having an even match in the small window where Protoss gets zealot/HT. I really liked the Zealot/HT window because I feel that Protoss's job is to survive until that timing window, and then try to take the game there. PvZ may be shifted as well. Early zealot pressure to cripple the Zerg's economy makes the matchup fair. Without adequate zealot pressure, P is pretty much handing over the win on a silver platter. I hope that the 5 second change will only have a small affect on zealot pressure. PvZ lategame is a lot more fair now that Ultralisks don't completely plow through stalkers and immortals.
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 18:17:01
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#306
Ok, now all we gotta wait for is for IdrA to lose a game to Terran and see his excuse this time :D

ty blizz

(great changes)
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 18:18:21
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#307
On August 28 2010 02:54 klauz619 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:50 R0YAL wrote:
Yay i like these changes but there are more things id like to see such as
1) tech lab time increased to equal reactor
2) BC build time increased to 110
3) Bunker build time increased by 10 seconds OR salvage returns 75% resources from 100%

These arnt hate-on Terran nerfs for I am but a mere unbiased random player, I just think it would be better balanced



You might as well just remove BCs if you make them 110 again, it's bad enough they get gimped to hell.

If anything, reactor build time should be reduced to 25, reactors take like 3 waves of units to compensate for the insane build time.

I wouldnt say -20% damage is being "gimped to hell" especially since theyre damage output was a little too high vs ground. But a 90 second build time is too fast, especially if you compare them to 120 build time of carriers and continue to compare BCs and Carriers in all categories. I know comparing 2 units amongst eachother is not the best way to determine balance, but if you compare their role and how they act with other units on the field then it should become clear

I disagree with your reactor comment entirely. Apart from balance... that wouldnt even be strategy >_<
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#308
Too bad they couldn't figure out a way to fix Kulas Revene for ZvT, looks like a fun map, but it's just too frustrating to play on as zerg with all that high ground that zerg really can't abuse, but P and T both can.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#309
God damn, Terran is getting raped. It'll be nice to finally be able to play a game without players telling me I'm a faggot because of my race, though
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
August 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#310
On August 28 2010 03:14 NATO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 03:11 link0 wrote:
There will be ZERO tanks made against Protoss now. Goodbye mechplay. Hello bio + banshees.


I never used tanks vs toss anyway. They are pretty terribad for their cost - ghosts are way more effective. But now that zealots are nerfed, I can just marauder push and autowin. No struggle at all.


The toss is going to make a robo anyway for obs to scout past wall. Immortals were lol against Tanks. But yeah, Zealots being nerfed is pretty bad for Marauder pushes.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Opinion
Profile Joined May 2010
United States236 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#311
On August 28 2010 03:13 SpaceChick wrote:
Everytime i see a thread like this, there's only one thing in my head
" Oh, another FFA between tl's members about balances"


I always come for the "There will be ZERO <unit nerfed> made now in X Race vs Y Race. <Unit nerfed> is now 100% useless and should just be removed from the game." or the equivalent to this.

I'm never disappointed.
LimeNade
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2125 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#312
yayyyyyyyyy this is gonna be uber good for zerg players :-D !!!!
JD, need I say more? :D
bertolo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States133 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#313
We have mid- to long-term plans to further evolve the Custom Game experience, and soon, enhance our social features with the addition of chat channels. We will be sharing more specific information in the coming weeks. As with all of our previous games, we will support StarCraft II for many years to come. Your feedback and participation is critical in making this not only the best game it can be, but also the most engaged gaming community in the world. We look forward to the implementation of patch 1.1, as well as sharing our plans for our future gameplay and Battle.net features.


God dammit it's never going to happen.
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#314
this is the patch that we have been waiting for.
bobsc2
Profile Joined August 2010
8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 18:18:35
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#315
On August 28 2010 03:06 billyX333 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 03:04 bobsc2 wrote:
On August 28 2010 03:01 billyX333 wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:57 StoLiVe wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:52 billyX333 wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:50 SichuanPanda wrote:
Just a little math on the Zealot change versus Zerg for everyone.

Timings:
Pylon - 25, Gateway - 65, Zealot - 38 (19 Chrono), Pool - 65, Zergling(s) - 24

Assumptions:
- Zerg is going 6/7 pool
- Protoss scouts / guesses this is coming 8 pylon
- Protoss Chronos the Zealot

Discussion

Quite simply it takes 89 seconds from the start of the Pool for the Zerg to have Zerglings built and heading to the Ps base. Assuming an 8 rather than a 9 pylon, the Protoss will take 109 seconds after the start of the first Pylon to get one Zealot out.

With a 6/7 pool it essentially goes down at the same time as the Pylon - if not earlier, the pool will also be fully complete by the time the gate finishes.

The math does not lie there will be a full TWENTY SECOND window possible in Z v P where it is literally impossible for the Protoss to have a Zealot - (and that is only assuming the P goes the fastest possible Zealot build). I fear for this match-up on short-rush distance maps.


how long does it take to build an additional pylon to fully block your ramp out?
you should already building a gate+pylon at your ramp with just enough space for 1 zealot to block


if you count the pylon you should count the overlord too


what?
im not sure what you're talking about ;(



You don't have to count the overlord b/c you don't need it to build your spawning pool... You can build it along with the spawning pool... You can't build the gateway wihtout building the pylon first...

i dont know what that has to do with my question
i asked how long does it take to wall in response to zerglings


If you want to fully block your ramp you usually would be getting a pylong halfway through the gateway being built, around 15/16 food. But since the gateway is going down quicker, it'll probably have to be towards the end of the gateway almost finsihing. That way you can get it up just in time to keep the lings out.

Which if the timing from above are right would be around 85 or 90 seconds. That shoudl have it going up when the 6 or 7 pool lings are on their way over
JoeCrow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States167 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#316
Im perhaps most intrigued by the implications of this change:

We have several balance changes in store. One general change we're making is that friendly units will no longer provide vision after being killed. Enemy units previously revealed will no longer be targetable.

Especially on ramps.
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#317
On August 28 2010 03:03 Tump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:58 Plexa wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:54 Tump wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:53 Plexa wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:51 Tump wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:50 SichuanPanda wrote:
Just a little math on the Zealot change versus Zerg for everyone.

Timings:
Pylon - 25, Gateway - 65, Zealot - 38 (19 Chrono), Pool - 65, Zergling(s) - 24

Assumptions:
- Zerg is going 6/7 pool
- Protoss scouts / guesses this is coming 8 pylon
- Protoss Chronos the Zealot

Dicussion

Quite simply it takes 89 seconds from the start of the Pool for the Zerg to have Zerglings built and heading to the Ps base. Assuming an 8 rather than a 9 pylon, the Protoss will take 109 seconds after the start of the first Pylon to get one Zealot out.

With a 6/7 pool it essentially goes down at the same time as the Pylon - if not earlier, the pool will also be fully complete by the time the gate finishes.

The math does not lie there will be a full TWENTY SECOND window possible in Z v P where it is literally impossible for the Protoss to have a Zealot - (and that is only assuming the P goes the fastest possible Zealot build). I fear for this match-up on short-rush distance maps.
6/7 pool is easily stopped by making a tightwall with a combination of gateways/pylons/a forge. A cannon/chronoed zealot (even if out after lings are trying to kill your wall) seal you an easy win.

I never lose to this bs regardless.

So you're basically saying every game Protoss is going to have to open with forge-gate with a completely airtight wall. Zerglings can still be a pain, and Zergs will have their queen out and get their economy up to match yours soon enough. Plus you just gave them a free expo that they can take when they please.

Zerg is so far behind at that point it doesn't matter. I don't see how lings are a problem once you've walled off and have way more probes and more being chronoed...

And who said Zerg has to open every game with a 6/7 pool?
You make it sound like Zerg lose all hope once their 7pool fails (or 8 pool for that matter). Assuming you're 10gating to get the zealot out in a respectable time, Protoss economy isn't that great either and don't forget that with a quick pool comes a quick queen - Zerg is behind sure, but it's perfectly playable especially if the protoss has to put down cannons to defend.

I'm not saying that the Zerg has no chance, but I believe he is still hindered in this case. The reason being is he has to catch up on economy with lots of larvae, while Protoss is perfectly safe making units and probes. To add insult to injury, Protoss is able to reach higher tech trees faster (with enough economy to support them quite well), making for an easy win should you press your tech advantage. (Stargate is quite nice in this position, as you have enough Warpgates to keep your Void Rays safe, and it stops any mutalisk all-in, not to mention roaches and lings cant hit air ^^)

Do you feel like Blizzard limiting your options as a toss player in how agressive you can be early game PvZ? I know its hard to comment on a patch that you never played yet, but from the outside it almost looks like PvZ for toss will be how ZvT was for zerg. Your just forced to play defensive now as 2 gating goes out the door.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
Crissaegrim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
2947 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#318
I really hope that they do not overnerf Protoss to a point where seeing them at a competitive level, much less owning at said level, is a rarity.
Count_Waltz
Profile Joined April 2010
United States48 Posts
August 27 2010 18:17 GMT
#319
well no need to cry so much p players at the zealot debuff. Maybe now we'll see more forge expand builds.
sono me ni kizame ko na
QueueQueue
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada1000 Posts
August 27 2010 18:18 GMT
#320
On August 28 2010 03:15 imPERSONater wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 03:12 DTown wrote:
On August 28 2010 03:10 imPERSONater wrote:
Wow, I felt terran is strong, but that tank change is going to allow zergs to dominate them in my opinion. Zerglings are going to live SOOOOO much longer and that will be very hard to deal with.

so Terran might have to build a couple extra hellions?


Might as well build just hellions because tanks won't be much use against anything other than roach and ultra. But I'm maining zerg so I am in no way complaining


Not really. They will just require a weapon upgrade to re-gain their previous effectiveness against ling. Will be nice for Zerg players having that window of time that they have the armour upgrade before the damage upgrade is finished for tanks. We will have to see what zerg players are able to come up with in regards to that.
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