[D] The roach symbolizes everything wrong with SC2 - Page 6

On August 22 2010 18:37 Rockstar25 wrote:
1 pop hydra would be op, dont you known?

On August 22 2010 19:19 nihoh wrote:
How about give Roaches Heart of Tarrasque????


EDIT: That is to say, increased, increased regeneration rate outside of battle. Ceased regeneration rate in battle. It's a DOTA mechanic.

On August 22 2010 08:29 NicolBolas wrote:


So what you're suggesting is that Blizzard should have just assumed that micro and macro would spontaneously appear ex nihilo. That they should not have bothered with skillful abilities and just assumed that unit speed and position-based micro would be sufficient.

I love most of these "contrived excuses" you mention. They really change the dynamic of the game. Blink allows Stalkers to function in ways that simple movement and position micro could never have allowed. Graviton-Beam allows Phoenixes to have so many possible uses beyond simple AtA: worker harassment, air support against certain unit compositions, sniping off of certain critical units (ie: Siege Tanks), etc.

Cliff climbing also has its skillful uses. It may seem simple on the surface, but having units that can use terrain better than others is a good thing. It doesn't matter if this is due to an explicit ability or is implicit based on damage attributes (ie: Siege Tank range+AoE+cooldown). What matters is the effect it creates in-game.

Giving units actual abilities is fine, so long as those abilities encourage skillful play. Force field does; there are many ways to use it and they all create interesting play. I'm pretty sure that Blizzard didn't think of ramp blocking when they first came up with the ability, yet it is a powerful technique.

Corruption/whatever-they're-calling-it doesn't encourage skillful play. That is a one-dimensional ability that is difficult to make worthwhile. The only thing that makes it even remotely interesting is the fact that it is essentially "free", coming with the Overseer.

Basically, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you want to rail against actually bad abilities, fine. But when you put Blink, Force field, and cliff climbing under the same axe as Corruption, you've gone too far.

The roach is the symbol of this failed philosophy, and that's why I hate the roach.

- Fazing let Void Rays counter marines and hydralisks. Blizzard nerfed it.

On August 22 2010 21:43 Grimjim wrote:


And with good reason. It allowed one Void Ray to destroy 2 Hydralisks in less time than it normally took to kill one. That is a HUGE balance problem. Void Rays are already incredibly powerful. We don't need an incredibly easy micro mechanic to make them even more so.

On August 22 2010 22:08 dhe95 wrote:

And this is why SC2 will never be as good as BW. Why don't you let Fazing and all the other little tricks stay in the game and let each unit take on its own role rather than one blizzard designed for them? What if blizzard patched muta stacking in BW, shuttle/reaver micro, dropship/tank, or worker glitching?

On August 22 2010 22:08 dhe95 wrote:

And this is why SC2 will never be as good as BW. Why don't you let Fazing and all the other little tricks stay in the game and let each unit take on its own role rather than one blizzard designed for them? What if blizzard patched muta stacking in BW, shuttle/reaver micro, dropship/tank, or worker glitching?

On August 22 2010 07:13 SubtleArt wrote:
Great writeup. I'd prefer if they made roaches slightly weaker but 1 supply again, as it stands they suck and Zerg has no viable way to pressure without committing to some easy to scout all in.

Also, agree on their maps too. They replaced functionality with "OMFG LOOK AT HOW STRATEGIC OUR GAME IS HERE ARE 431772 PIECES OF TERRAIN YOU CAN ABUSE STRATEGICALLY IN OUR REALLY STRATEGIC GAME!"



That's a stupid thing to say. Brood War did so many things right, I don't see why Sc2 can't elaborate on everything that worked without being a carbon copy. Also, "they're different games". Are you fucking serious? Let's list all the similarities:
- Exact same economy system: you get peons to mine minerals and gas and send them to your townhouse.
- You require a building on a geyser to get gas
- Terran builds anywhere, Zerg builds on creep, protoss builds on areas powered by pylons.
- Terran macro system (rax + factories + starports), zerg macro system (building opens up tech options, units come out of larva, which spawns from hatcheries) and protoss macro system (gateways and robo bay) remain largely unchanged.
- Pylons, ovies, and depots, exactly the same
- Terran units still in Sc2:
--- scvs, marines, dropships, tanks, battlecruisers, comsats, bunkers
- Units which are changed but obviously mirror the original:
--- Ravens (vessels), vikings (goliaths / wraiths), medivac (dropship + medic), helion (vulture)
Zerg units still in Sc2:
--- Queen, zergling, hydralisk, mutalisk, ultralisk, drone, overlord. Corrupters / broodlords are basically devourers and guardians, spine crawlers are sunken colonies, and infestors replaced defilers.
- Protoss units still in Sc2:
--- Zealot, probe, observer, dark templar, high templar, archon, carrier, cannons.
Recycled units: Collosus (reaver), Stalker (dragoon), mothership (a useless arbiter), pheonix (corsair).

That was quite a wall of text but I seriously hate it when people say that. Starcraft 2 borrows so heavily from the first (seriously...over half the new units are just modified versions of old ones in BW, except given an even more niche role) that saying its a completely new game is like saying Gears of War and Gears of War 2 or Halo and Halo 2 are entirely new games that happen to be under the same name.