EPT26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA.
Did KeSPA cancel TLO vs Nada at IEM? - Page 25
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA. | ||
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CalmDown.Breathe
United States176 Posts
On August 22 2010 18:52 aru wrote: Screwing over the e-sports scene is just a byproduct in their bid for control? So it basically doesn't matter who "wins", everyone else loses. Seems like it for now, since they don't know how to handle the Starcraft scene in Korea, ever since Korean courts ruled in favor of Kespa (sort of). It doesn't seem likely that they'll keep LAN away forever (just like how it seems implausible that there would be no chat rooms forever), but until they know how to control LAN access... yeah. One way would be with their "tournament registration" function where tournament organizers submit their tournaments to Blizzard to become approved. Could see Blizzard utilizing that to enable LAN? But for now, public LAN would seem really unlikely. That and since Starcraft 2 is still pretty new, the scene is growing right now, so the lack of LAN doesn't seem to be an immediate concern for them. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:05 CalmDown.Breathe wrote: Seems like it for now, since they don't know how to handle the Starcraft scene in Korea, ever since Korean courts ruled in favor of Kespa (sort of). It doesn't seem likely that they'll keep LAN away forever (just like how it seems implausible that there would be no chat rooms forever), but until they know how to control LAN access... yeah. One way would be with their "tournament registration" function where tournament organizers submit their tournaments to Blizzard to become approved. Could see Blizzard utilizing that to enable LAN? But for now, public LAN would seem really unlikely. That and since Starcraft 2 is still pretty new, the scene is growing right now, so the lack of LAN doesn't seem to be an immediate concern for them. reply to bolded: its highly impossible IF hackers can acquire and crack this, our beloved B.net2 would be rendered useless .. If they(blizzard) really want SC2 to grow, they should have implemented LAN. No other way. Regarding KeSPA .. They made a dumb move .. lol | ||
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Kyouya
Mexico318 Posts
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cybrodroid
United States6 Posts
On August 22 2010 17:11 Milkis wrote: I'm not the biggest fan of KeSPA but I honestly don't think that timeline series is very objective. It's meant to make you upset. Not many netizens support KeSPA (who would, really), but a lot of them are really simplified points that IMO miss a lot of the key details. Like...What details do they miss? I'm sure many of us would like to hear other sides of this story. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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McDonalds
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
On August 22 2010 17:33 Devolved wrote: When you think about it, KESPA is probably the reason there's no LAN. Blizz is forced to run tournaments and all multiplayer games for SC2 through b.net, otherwise, KESPA could just steal Blizzard's Intellectual Property like they did with SC:BW and create a small fortune from it without including Blizzard. Last I checked Kespa was a non-profit organization? Which I assume means they function like a co-op. And they aren't selling t-shirts with giant mutalisk sprites on them anyway. This whole intellectual property thing is a legal manoeuvre. Blizzard sold the rights to Gretech because Gretech would agree to their terms, but the main reason was obviously that any legal challenge from Kespa after that point would be a contest between two Korean companies, not a Korean company and a foreign one. So yeah, it's about control, but the real issue is branding. Blizzard don't like the fact that the premiere Starcraft event is the "OGN Starleague" or whatever. They want it to be the "Activision Blizzard Starcraft Invitational". They want their company logo on the desk and in the background. (Man, the WCG theme song is so bad.) | ||
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cybrodroid
United States6 Posts
On August 22 2010 17:17 Scarecrow wrote: All the problems like power outage still have potential to happen in SC2. The no lan support just adds one more thing that can go wrong plus unnecessary latency. The Kespa progamers are a result of the team sponsors taking a risk and investing in esports. The real capital is the players, not the 10 year old game. Why should they allow promoters of another game to profit off what they have built to the detriment of BW? The gomtv fiasco was a similar issue, the homegrown stars of starcraft generating revenue and advertising for blizzard and gom without any compensation to the companies that created the scene. It even hurt the quality of the other leagues as it added games to already intense schedules. I don't see why people can be outraged at Kespa shutting down a competition that they had no stake in, hurt their own interests (worsened player conditions) and was run using the capital they created. Agreed with Milkis. That list is ridiculously biased, can argue pretty much every point. If you can, then do. So far KeSPA seems like the bad guy. Don't know that they are, but so far no one with an apologist sentiment for them has offered any reasons why. edit: left out part of my thought. Why would they not use these opportunities to further e-sports and develop relationships with those on the IP creators' good side. Which is the bigger risk? | ||
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asdfiprod
United States34 Posts
On August 22 2010 14:41 keV. wrote: You are seriously delusional. They do it because their is profitable gain, by recognition or otherwise. I don't know what fantasy world you live in where companies like Samsung act on good will. http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/goodwill.html In business terminology, goodwill means something different than kindness of heart. It's not a fantasy world or delusion, it's big kids world. | ||
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CalmDown.Breathe
United States176 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:14 aimaimaim wrote: reply to bolded: its highly impossible IF hackers can acquire and crack this, our beloved B.net2 would be rendered useless .. If they(blizzard) really want SC2 to grow, they should have implemented LAN. No other way. Regarding KeSPA .. They made a dumb move .. lol It was just a hypothetical example. If Blizzard already figured it out, they would have implemented it already. Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports so they have the most to gain with E-Sport's growth and the most to lose with E-Sport's downfall so they probably know what they're doing and are contemplating every decision they make. For now though, they're concentrating on marketing and drawing in more people towards Starcraft 2. Furthering their progress / development of LAN, although great for tournaments and E-Sports, probably doesn't do much for the casual gamer (their current target audience) so their priorities are probably elsewhere right now as well. And yeah... Kespa did make a dumb move. If they just agreed to negotiate with Blizzard, everything would have been just peachy. | ||
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McDonalds
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:22 CalmDown.Breathe wrote: Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports Blizzard is a video game company. They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish. | ||
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CalmDown.Breathe
United States176 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:27 McDonalds wrote: Blizzard is a video game company. They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish. Which is why they'd like to have as much of an influence in e-sports as they can. Wouldn't they have loved to have Korean Pro-gamers on starcraft 2 right now? but nope, can't because of Kespa. which just goes back to how they're trying to keep control over their products now. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On August 22 2010 15:03 Secret_Agent_360 wrote: For those who are not really aware of KeSPA's business, here's the timeline of KeSPA and its major events in (South) Korea + Show Spoiler + 1. KeSPA (Korean e-Sports Player Association) was founded. 2. Blizzard didn't pay much attention to KeSPA. 3. KeSPA tried to sell tickets to offline audience for the final match of Ongamenet Starcraft taurnament. 4. Blizzard said, 'No, you can't do that.' 5. KeSPA then started to take money from two major game channels, Ongamenet and MBC Game, for broadcasting Starcraft matches in Korea 6. Blizzard got mad a bit about this. 7. Only GomTV contacted Blizzard directly to request for broadcasting matches online. 8. Blizzard asked only 1$ for the contract fee. 9. GomTV created GomTV Classic and began to broadcast games. 10. Around Season 4, KeSPA told GomTV to pay money for the broadcasting. 11. GomTV argued that KeSPA didn't have any rights to do so by mentioning its contract with Blizzard. 12. KeSPA pulled their progamers out of GomTV Classic matches. 13. Eventually, GomTV went out of business. 14. Blizzard got really mad. 15. Blizzard set in motion to protect its property as well as intellectual property of Starcraft. 16. Blizzard tried to negotiate a contract with KeSPA. 17. KeSPA refused, argueing that e-sports are like other sports such as basketball and soccer, and we don't pay money to the creator of the soccer ball for soccer games. Starcraft is for the public use like the soccer ball. 18. Michael Morhaime, the president of Blizzard, visited Korea to meet progamers while promoting new Starcraft2 beta in Korea. 19. KeSPA threatened each progamer team not to meet Michael Morhaime. 20. So Michael Morhaime couldn't meet any progamers and had to return to U.S. in vain. 21. Blizzard constantly tried to negotiate with KeSPA, but KeSPA kept refusing for the same reason. 22. Blizzard finally announced that there'll be no negotiation with KeSPA. 23. Blizzard provided GomTV with the rights for broadcasting all the matches using Blizzard games. Also Blizzard informed that all the matches from KeSPA after the end of August, 2010 will expire, so KeSPA will not be able to have any matches using Blizzard games, otherwise be sued by Blizzard. 24. KeSPA furiously reacted to the 'sudden' terms. (Actually, it seemed like threatenening Blizzard) 25. Ongamenet and MBC Game hurriedly tried to negotiate with GomTV 26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA. 27. The only weapon that KeSPA has now is progamer teams that belong to KeSPA. 28. KeSPA prohibited progamers (including SlayersBoxer and NaDa) from playing, or even trying, Starcraft 2. 29. Consequently, the current high ranking players are usually retired progamers and amateurs. 30. GomTV prepared for the broadcast of GSL(Global Starcraft 2 League). 31. The scale of the league surpassed by far that from KeSPA. 32. KeSPA is now trying some media manipulation saying bad things about Starcraft 2 33. Recently, KeSPA forced NaDa to quit playing during the Starcraft2 event match that was held in Germany. 34. KeSPA gave an excuse that it was because of a network problem. 35. KeSPA changed the excuse that NaDa had another event to attend to at that time. Most of these are known facts that have happend and are happening in Korea. I read the original version which was in Korean posted in Ruliweb.com and I got somewhat upset about the whole story, so i decided to trasnlate it into English so that many can learn about how KeSPA has been doing to fans, progamers, and Blizzard. Haha that is totally inaccurate. OGN and GOM could have broadcasted starcraft bw games without going through KESPA. What Kespa wanted was money for using their teams. If OGN/MSL and GOM wanted to, they could have hosted the GSL, OSL, and MSL without the kespa teams and paid nothing. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:22 CalmDown.Breathe wrote: It was just a hypothetical example. If Blizzard already figured it out, they would have implemented it already. Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports so they have the most to gain with E-Sport's growth and the most to lose with E-Sport's downfall so they probably know what they're doing and are contemplating every decision they make. For now though, they're concentrating on marketing and drawing in more people towards Starcraft 2. Furthering their progress / development of LAN, although great for tournaments and E-Sports, probably doesn't do much for the casual gamer (their current target audience) so their priorities are probably elsewhere right now as well. And yeah... Kespa did make a dumb move. If they just agreed to negotiate with Blizzard, everything would have been just peachy. what??? NO .. NO .. KeSPA deserves everything what they did for E-Sport .. with the terms being drawn by blizzard .. its fucking impossible .. Blizzard deserves everything for creating the game .. but they never gave a rat's ass for the scene .. it was only in 2007 when activision merged with blizzard and got their eyes on the money that is korean esport .. also, i dont believe that blizzard can handle e-sport .. take a look at WoW and WC3 .. they never made any great progress in the E-sport area, with WoW having a great number of players, it would generate a great e-sport scene and regarding WC3 .. it looks like after SC2 was announced .. they forgot WC3 altogether .. im not a big fan of kespa but the gamble they made back in the early 2000 is worth the praise while all the other companies that SHOULD have taken care of the potential E-SPORT SCENE and declined to have anything to do with since they see it as a "waste of money" .. regarding e-sport's growth .. WoW has the BEST chance of having an International E-Sport Scene along with DotA .. but they never gambled on it .. Blizzard instead invested on SC2 because looking at korea, they thought they could get big with it .. IDK if its gonna be big, but it really isn't living up to the Hype .. my 2 cents also, that list of timeline about kespa and blizzard is pretty one sided .. blizzard's terms to kespa was REALLY REALLY unreasonable .. here is the list: 1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:27 McDonalds wrote: They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish. I wouldn't be so sure about that. Just look at the sales of SC:BW in Korea and you'll see it's possibly the best way to promote your product. Blizzard didn't initially put in much effort to stop and/or control E-Sports because it was free advertising for their product. | ||
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jayt88
Singapore97 Posts
Progaming and having no life is almost synonymous. If you want to be like Flash, do you think you can do without practicing for at least half a day, its not as though Kespa forces them to practice, its the requirement of their job. Next, it was already stated clearly that the match would only be allowed if the game wasn't streamed in Korea, and apparently it was, so I don't see why the match can't be stopped since part of the agreement was breached. All the senseless hate on Kespa is ridiculous, think for a moment, if you were in their shoes and you're getting pushed back against the wall by Blizzard and GomTV. | ||
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McDonalds
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
But yeah, they pretty much have what they want now in the GOM broadcasts, if you've seen any of them. I just looked for a VOD a minute ago. The wallpaper in the booths all says STARCRAFT BLIZZARD STARCRAFT BLIZZARD. That's basically all that Blizzard were interested in, I think. They saw the identity of the company as more important than the identity of the contest, and Kespa disagreed. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On August 22 2010 19:51 jayt88 wrote: Next, it was already stated clearly that the match would only be allowed if the game wasn't streamed in Korea, and apparently it was, so I don't see why the match can't be stopped since part of the agreement was breached. It's completely illogical to have the terms of an agreement between two parties rely on the actions of a third party that is uncontrollable by the two parties entering the agreement (i.e. pirate streamers). If this is the way KeSPA handled negotiations with Blizzard I can see why Blizzard finally said F-it and signed a deal with GOM. | ||
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some_noob
160 Posts
What about being able to connect with lan when logged in bnet 2.0 ? | ||
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junkacc
99 Posts
These are the demands Blizzard made to KeSPA. e스포츠협회에 따르면 블리자드는 △게임 사용기간 1년으로 제한 △스폰서십, 중계권 등 모든 수입에 대해 게임사용료 이상의 로열티 및 서브 라이선스 비용 요구 △리그 관련 모든 운영활동에 대한 사전 승인 △2차 저작물인 경기 콘텐츠에 대한 소유권 △협회에 대한 회계감사 권한 등의 무리한 요구를 해온 것으로 알려졌다. -Contracts/Licenses on games last for at most one year (I assume renegotiation after each year). -Royaltees and service payments on top of contract/licensing fees for all sponsorship and broadcasting. -All league and operation activities must be vetted by Blizzard in advance. -Copyrights on all secondary content such as match content belong to Blizzard -Auditing rights on Kespa Can't believe all you fanboys and blind worshipers think Blizzard has altruistic motives on this. They want to put you on the endless upgrade train; like their COD business model. But first they must kill off BW, that is their #1 obstacle atm. | ||
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