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United States4482 Posts
On October 18 2010 13:23 Thermia wrote:
It's pretty funny how everyone is upset at incontrol for saying something obvious (same build won't keep winning) but still true and not at all disrespectful. I'm more surprised select isn't getting more flak for refusing to practice with machine then half blaming his loss on a lack of practice with zergs (granted, machine obviously isn't on the same level as idra, but some practice has to be better than none).
i cant understand mayben ot practicing with machine but isnt he close to the top echelon on korean servers? apparently they have alot more zergs over there. but yea i guess maybe not enuf to practice routinely game after game. :x i
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incontrol ripping on select is like idra ripping on kwanro. Who's the better player?
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I thought this podcast was really great. The criticism of SeleCT was spot on, and not mean or bashing as people in this thread have stated. They over and over again crowed over how great his control was, but noted that his play is very predictable and if he expects to win at Dallas or in other big tournaments, he needs to vary up his play. They bashed HuK for his mothership rush much more than SeleCT, and HuK was sitting right there.
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I think SeleCt took a lot of crap for what he said in the final and just getting stomped by IdrA. Yes, you can say he was tired... yes, you can say IdrA stomped everyone. But if you reach the finals, you have some-sort of commitment to giving a good game / making competition by respect for the fans and by respect for those you eliminated on the way there. It's frustrating to other competitors to see someone who went so far crumble/give excuses at the end. I'm pretty sure a lot of competitors thought they could have provided a better match for the finals and there lies the frustration.
Same deal with ITR, I'm sure he received a LOT of flak from other progamers from crumbling like that at the finals. Tester, Ensnare, and so many others probably thought they could given Fruit Dealer a much closer / exciting game.
And ITR knew this, he said so in his interview that he felt shameful, not on the same level and lucky to be there. I'm sure some people defend ITR still. "Well, he got #2. Who are you to criticize him?" But he got stomped so hard in the finals that it for most Pros, it is very frustrating to see. If they are beaten by someone, they want that person to win the whole tournament >_>;; Like, there is no shame to losing to IdrA, but it's sort-of shameful to lose to someone who gets -totally- stomped afterward. Imagine if ITR had said "Damn, I dont have any zerg practice partners of your level and I needed more practice." during any of his games... how the tension / excitement would have dropped. It's not something you are supposed to say to avoid cheapening your position, and cheapening the position of everyone who got eliminated.
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Well Select did go on in game about no practice partners when he had Sen agree to practice with him. On top of opportunity with Machine. If he's gonna use that a s a copout as far as I'mc oncerned he's allowing open season on himself for criticism.
to say "I wish I had someone to practice with" is just a copout for choosing not to come as prepared as he could have. And the fact he used such a copout given he had ample opportunity to get some vZ practice really makes all defending of his 'hard work' kinda questionable.
Either way, he did do well and all, he just should have been more prepared.
/shrug
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Ammount of shit SelecT got was retarded. EVERY terran plays that strategy against protoss and its working , so why should he change it?
IF there is one thing to make fun off, its EG's performance outside of idra. incontroll lzgamer inka and machine are so fucking bad, and they never win anything. I feel sad for idra if he has to practice with his team.
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I think they should have given HuK more props for his mothership rush. I don't want him to think there weren't zillions of us out here who thought it was awesome sauce.
Awesome sauce.
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On October 18 2010 13:47 leve15 wrote:
Incontrol says a lot of funny things, I always enjoy listening to him, but part of being a comedian is knowing that there is a line.
Generalizing a country is funny.
Demeaning someone's hard work is not. (he didn't stop at Select's hard work, MLG organizers anyone? right in front of JP no less...)
are you honestly that offended? I seriously can't imagine anyone caring that much.
He was answering a question that JP asked him directly, on both topics. I realize incontrol has that "remember me? I bullied you in middle school!" tone of voice, but does that make anything he says instantly offensive enough for people to f5 forum threads to post about it? Incontrol actually gives out more compliments on the podcast than anyone else lol
Also, when JP interviewed select on the stream he phrased the "did you not have any zerg practice partners" question a bit too specifically. Select ended up half-agreeing with JP and half making an excuse, so it wasn't as if he purposely sought out to give excuses as soon as the match was over. I think that criticism was a bit unwarranted, but it did lead to another chapter of "the woes of machine" which is a good trade-off
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It's scary how much LiquidTyler sounds like Gabe from the Office.
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Why would I be offended? You may have misinterpreted what I meant.
I just think it was in bad taste. That's all.
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Incontrol is just an opinionated guy, like myself. I think when you have a strong opinion on when people are doing something wrong, and you voice that opinion, despite how much you may praise them even in the same sentence, people are going to only focus on the negatives of what you say.
Incontrol said SeleCT was a great player almost constantly, but he had a strong opinion about him needing to diversify his build portfolio. Incontrol also said that MLG was great, and had some good things to say, but he also had a strong opinion about how the seating system was set up and other details.
I do believe he was trying to be helpful, and I would rather someone tell me I'm doing something wrong straight-up than beat around the bush and try to be nice.
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don't know how anyone could argue with idra's argument about koreans being overall better than non-koreans. more of them practice 12 hours a day, so obviously they will be better. he's not saying their natural ability to play starcraft is better. they just have a different "work" ethic where they practice like they're working 12 hours a day.
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Ugg.. how are people misconstruing inc's thoughts this much?
Here let me give a simple comparison. Flash is a mechanical beast in TvZ and beats almost everyone with no contest. If Flash is so freaking insanely good at this matchup, then why does he feel the need to vary his openers? The answer is, using a single build order is not good. Every build has flaws and a player of similar skill will figure out and exploit them. When playing lesser players it doesn't matter if your build is countered but if someone is near enough to you in skill, it does.
+ Show Spoiler [example] +Example game Flash vs Effort on Fighting Spirit You put kwanro into that game and he probably would have lost but effort is close enough in skill that he can tear Flash to pieces. Key points that Effort abused 1.) Flash reacts to a 2 hatch by going 3 rax, and delaying tech. Against lurkers flash bunkers hard so effort made 2 lurkers then rushed hive 2.) The delayed tech meant effort could easily get out defilers in time for the first attack. With these he rushed a fourth base and ultralisks. 3.) In response to 4 gas ultra, Flash double expos to a second main and the 3rd furthest from his opponent. Flash then turtles with tanks. Effort took that transition period + faster ultralisks + mobility to kill Flash. End results in the sheer rape of a 70% win rate terran.
Inc simply said if select doesn't adapt he won't win. He didn't say can't or won't. It really isn't hard to understand
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select is a good player and a player who actually achieved stuff to a certain degree, yet its incontrol who is doing the bashing =)
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I feel i grudge match coming. Honestly would like to see incontrol get pwned by SeleCT's mm build. I would lol at the irony.
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The continuing a series is retarded, can you imagine in soccer (football for the rest of the world and shut up and be happy I mentioned it, the sport blows but more people in the world would understand this post) if the finals of a tourney they said Brazil starts up 3-0 because they already beat their opponent 3-0 earlier? It'd be a game breaker. It's a retarded option, there is a reason it's not done in any competitive sport.
They were hard on select, they bash him for being weak vs Z in a match-up that changed 2 days prior to his final with the best Z player in the tourney by far. Select is good, he is far better than those bashing him minus Idra, huk, and tyler. He did one build, that is dumb... if he faced players who forced him to do otherwise often he'd probably do otherwise but the fact remains that most of you can't stop his one build. He has the APM, thought, and ability to use other strats just fine... probably better than those bashing him.
I still <3 state of the game and I agree on most issues and it's done in an entertaining way
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Guys, let’s not make this look like there’s some kind of beef between Incontrol and Select. Inc’s criticism is valid, albeit as valid also to his teammate Idra as it is to Select. And I’m sure Select isn’t taking anything Inc said personally, as there’s nothing really personal that was said, just an analysis of his game.
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On October 18 2010 14:56 TwentyAPM wrote:
The continuing a series is retarded, can you imagine in soccer (football for the rest of the world and shut up and be happy I mentioned it, the sport blows but more people in the world would understand this post) if the finals of a tourney they said Brazil starts up 3-0 because they already beat their opponent 3-0 earlier? It'd be a game breaker. It's a retarded option, there is a reason it's not done in any competitive sport.
They were hard on select, they bash him for being weak vs Z in a match-up that changed 2 days prior to his final with the best Z player in the tourney by far. Select is good, he is far better than those bashing him minus Idra, huk, and tyler. He did one build, that is dumb... if he faced players who forced him to do otherwise often he'd probably do otherwise but the fact remains that most of you can't stop his one build. He has the APM, thought, and ability to use other strats just fine... probably better than those bashing him.
I still <3 state of the game and I agree on most issues and it's done in an entertaining way
probably a bad choice of sports to use this argument for because world cup qualifiers actually work this way for certain regions where they will play two games and the highest aggregete score from both games is used to determine the winner with goals scored away from home being counted as two goals in the event of a tie and if things are still tied after that then there will be a penalty shootout..
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Thanks!! Should be updated in OP
Ima go watch now, I love these guys :D
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Listening to this again, i wish this was on video since i'd love to see DJwheat's Terry Crews imitation.
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EPT
