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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 724

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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Icx
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Belgium853 Posts
April 08 2011 19:34 GMT
#14461
Incontrol, question:

Because some people were asking it earlier, in future episodes will you be able to use your webcam, or aren't you sure yet? (seeing the reason you mentioned for not being able to use it this last episode before you had to cancel).


HowSoOnIsNow
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada480 Posts
April 08 2011 19:37 GMT
#14462
I lived in asia quite a bit, and also, have close relations with your friends is considered as something cute and attractive in the view of girls. Ya got to learn the tricks ya know ah!
Real mens play Zerg.. Startale fighting.
Ohdamn
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany765 Posts
April 08 2011 19:37 GMT
#14463
On April 09 2011 04:19 loveeholicce wrote:
Also, about day9's "Sen has won a bunch of online tournaments" thing:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1176_Sen

No he hasn't. Not 1 actually.

i lol'd poor sean
"If you can chill....chill!"
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
April 08 2011 19:40 GMT
#14464
On April 09 2011 04:34 Icx wrote:
Incontrol, question:

Because some people were asking it earlier, in future episodes will you be able to use your webcam, or aren't you sure yet? (seeing the reason you mentioned for not being able to use it this last episode before you had to cancel).




Found a solution!

Will be using a laptop in my room so webcam will be a go! I will prob have my face smashed up against it though.. no chairs in my bedroom. So lounging on bed it is.
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
April 08 2011 19:43 GMT
#14465
On April 09 2011 03:56 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 02:26 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 08 2011 23:42 rolfe wrote:
On April 08 2011 16:28 Defacer wrote:
On the subject of MarineKing being emo ... am I the only one that thinks he might be gay?


i'm pretty sure huk said he has a hot girlfriend


Nah that's Rainbow. But yeah, MarineKing is probably not gay. I do not also see the relevance,or that it would be a bad thing in any way.



The dude could very well be the most sensitive and emotional professional player I've ever seen, in any sport.

I'm trying to think of another player in any sport that gets that gets that choked up with he wins or loses.

Got nothing.


Tim Tebow.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
April 08 2011 19:46 GMT
#14466

Put simply, I'll accept Zerg is not underpowered when Zerg starts preforming equally to the other races in tournaments. I don't think its a matter of skill. There's no reason players like Slush, Idra, Morrow, Sen, Ret, and Dimaga shouldn't be finding the same success as Terran and Protoss players, but theyre not. When we actually see Zerg representation at the highest level, and Zerg tournament wins are on par with Terran and Protoss wins I'll accept Zerg is fine. So far tournament results have basically been a Zerg scattered here and there among a sea of Protoss and Terran finding success.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just look at protoss, for months they were just doing stupid, stupid shit in both PvT and PvZ. Protoss was actually the least accomplished race for a while. Every terran in the world was like, when protoss figures out a way to not die to stim timings, they will dominate so hard. Because every once in a while we met a protoss who didn't die to those stim timings and we'd get into late game. :/ Anyway imba cries by protoss all around the world. and what happens? blizzard keeps nerfing toss, there has been zero buffs that had any real impact on the state of TvP. But suddenly the 30 percent winrate of PvT in the gsl has turned into a 70 percent winrate. Maybe, there aren't alot of good zergs because it's just harder to play, or maybe they haven't figured out ZvP, maybe there is an imbalance. We don't know, we probably never will.



Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
April 08 2011 19:47 GMT
#14467
On April 09 2011 04:32 Jibba wrote:
Holy shit, this entire line of MKP comments is ridiculously ignorant. Congrats on making this thread even more excruciating to read.

No, crying doesn't make you gay. Posting that it does makes you an idiot, however.


I don't think anyone is really suggesting crying makes someone gay. Stop making assumptions and chill out, Mr. Serious Pants. We're just shooting the shit here.

I just brought it up because :

a) people were dragging out the IMBA conversation, which was worse and
b) there's a lot of little things, which have nothing to do with crying, that made me wonder if Marine King was gay.

The truth is I thought Marine King might be gay before his MC match. I was just wondering if I was crazy or not.

It would totally cool if he was. Then again, I'm one of those people that can talk about subjects like race, sexuality, politics and religion, without getting defensive or confrontational or judgemental. Sometimes I think people think that just because you bring up a certain topic, that you're trying to pick a fight.

Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
April 08 2011 19:49 GMT
#14468
On April 09 2011 04:37 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
I lived in asia quite a bit, and also, have close relations with your friends is considered as something cute and attractive in the view of girls. Ya got to learn the tricks ya know ah!


Ahhhh, I can totally see that!

Let's go mack some Asian girls!


Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
April 08 2011 19:51 GMT
#14469
On April 09 2011 04:33 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:17 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 09 2011 03:56 Defacer wrote:
On April 09 2011 02:26 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 08 2011 23:42 rolfe wrote:
On April 08 2011 16:28 Defacer wrote:
On the subject of MarineKing being emo ... am I the only one that thinks he might be gay?


i'm pretty sure huk said he has a hot girlfriend


Nah that's Rainbow. But yeah, MarineKing is probably not gay. I do not also see the relevance,or that it would be a bad thing in any way.



The dude could very well be the most sensitive and emotional professional player I've ever seen, in any sport.

I'm trying to think of another player in any sport that gets that gets that choked up with he wins or loses.

Got nothing.


C.Ronaldo. Cesc Fabregas, Diego Maradonna, Kaka, more than often a whole team fall to their knees when eliminated from the higher stages of the world cupjust to cry. Gyan broke down after missing the penalty during last year's world cup. As a matter of fact,it happens all the time in non american sports where showing emotions related to sadness isnt perceived as a non masculine quality.


Hmmm ... good examples.

Part of MarineKing's emotiveness and body language may be cultural too.

I'm not sure what Koreans are like, but in Hong Kong, men are a lot more comfortable being physically affectionate in a completely platonic way -- Like, wrapping your arm around your buddies shoulder on the bus, putting your hand on his knee, etc. It's the kind of body langauge that would interpreted as 'fey' or gay in most North American cities.

And the Miami Heat cried because they ARE gay. Lol.



And in some cultures kissing on the left and right cheek is considered acceptable and in others finger pointing is considered rude. Projecting your cultural bias on what's acceptable behaviour for straight men is dangerously ignorant. But then so is projecting your manly man stereotypes. 'Big boys don't cry' except when some do, and guess what? Expressing emotion does not make one gay. Sheesh.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
April 08 2011 19:53 GMT
#14470
On April 09 2011 04:46 Endorsed wrote:
Show nested quote +

Put simply, I'll accept Zerg is not underpowered when Zerg starts preforming equally to the other races in tournaments. I don't think its a matter of skill. There's no reason players like Slush, Idra, Morrow, Sen, Ret, and Dimaga shouldn't be finding the same success as Terran and Protoss players, but theyre not. When we actually see Zerg representation at the highest level, and Zerg tournament wins are on par with Terran and Protoss wins I'll accept Zerg is fine. So far tournament results have basically been a Zerg scattered here and there among a sea of Protoss and Terran finding success.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just look at protoss, for months they were just doing stupid, stupid shit in both PvT and PvZ. Protoss was actually the least accomplished race for a while. Every terran in the world was like, when protoss figures out a way to not die to stim timings, they will dominate so hard. Because every once in a while we met a protoss who didn't die to those stim timings and we'd get into late game. :/ Anyway imba cries by protoss all around the world. and what happens? blizzard keeps nerfing toss, there has been zero buffs that had any real impact on the state of TvP. But suddenly the 30 percent winrate of PvT in the gsl has turned into a 70 percent winrate. Maybe, there aren't alot of good zergs because it's just harder to play, or maybe they haven't figured out ZvP, maybe there is an imbalance. We don't know, we probably never will.



0 buffs for Protoss but Terran has been consistently nerfed at some points, like Stim and Bunker time.

//tx
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
HowSoOnIsNow
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada480 Posts
April 08 2011 20:00 GMT
#14471
On April 09 2011 04:49 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:37 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
I lived in asia quite a bit, and also, have close relations with your friends is considered as something cute and attractive in the view of girls. Ya got to learn the tricks ya know ah!


Ahhhh, I can totally see that!

Let's go mack some Asian girls!




It has been done before,and will be done in the future my dear friend!
Real mens play Zerg.. Startale fighting.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 20:04:14
April 08 2011 20:03 GMT
#14472
On April 09 2011 04:51 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:33 Defacer wrote:
On April 09 2011 04:17 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 09 2011 03:56 Defacer wrote:
On April 09 2011 02:26 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 08 2011 23:42 rolfe wrote:
On April 08 2011 16:28 Defacer wrote:
On the subject of MarineKing being emo ... am I the only one that thinks he might be gay?


i'm pretty sure huk said he has a hot girlfriend


Nah that's Rainbow. But yeah, MarineKing is probably not gay. I do not also see the relevance,or that it would be a bad thing in any way.



The dude could very well be the most sensitive and emotional professional player I've ever seen, in any sport.

I'm trying to think of another player in any sport that gets that gets that choked up with he wins or loses.

Got nothing.


C.Ronaldo. Cesc Fabregas, Diego Maradonna, Kaka, more than often a whole team fall to their knees when eliminated from the higher stages of the world cupjust to cry. Gyan broke down after missing the penalty during last year's world cup. As a matter of fact,it happens all the time in non american sports where showing emotions related to sadness isnt perceived as a non masculine quality.


Hmmm ... good examples.

Part of MarineKing's emotiveness and body language may be cultural too.

I'm not sure what Koreans are like, but in Hong Kong, men are a lot more comfortable being physically affectionate in a completely platonic way -- Like, wrapping your arm around your buddies shoulder on the bus, putting your hand on his knee, etc. It's the kind of body langauge that would interpreted as 'fey' or gay in most North American cities.

And the Miami Heat cried because they ARE gay. Lol.



But then so is projecting your manly man stereotypes. 'Big boys don't cry' except when some do, and guess what? Expressing emotion does not make one gay. Sheesh.


Not saying it does. I've already noted that players like Huk, IdrA and Dimaga get emotional after wins and losses.

Sometimes you get a gay vibe from people, sometimes you don't.

I think the first time I thought Marine King might be gay, was when I saw an Artosis video at one of the GSL qualifiers. He was just standing there, sheepishly, in a pink hoody, pajamas and flip flops waiting to hope onto one of the computers. And I thought to myself, 'What an odd little man ... "

And what manly man stereotypes am I projecting, exactly? Why are you stereotyping me as someone who has a stereotype of what a man is? Why are you so awful and judgemental?!?!? Why?!?!?

You guys are taking this conversation way too seriously.
phisku
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Belgium864 Posts
April 08 2011 20:03 GMT
#14473
On April 09 2011 04:37 Ohdamn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:19 loveeholicce wrote:
Also, about day9's "Sen has won a bunch of online tournaments" thing:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1176_Sen

No he hasn't. Not 1 actually.

i lol'd poor sean


he "won" the gcpl against naniwa.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
April 08 2011 20:04 GMT
#14474
On April 09 2011 04:32 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:27 The KY wrote:
Just btw, the 'zerg won 2 GSLs' thing was only brought up because Idra said zerg never wins anything. It wasn't exactly used as proof of a balanced game.


Yes it was. Idra said Zerg sucks and day9 goes "well they won 2 GSLs". Idra's point was those results are so outdated you can't reference them for anything.


Erm...no. You know if you directly contradict someone it's better to provide evidence to back up your assertion.

e.g.

Original question; 'Why aren't zerg players winning any tournaments?'

IdrA's response; 'If you look at any statistic besides GSL Open wins-' ay[9] laughs* '-zerg is at 100% under representation.'

Day[9]'s joking, sarcastic response - 'It's true, zerg hasn't done anything except win 2 GSLs.'

So, no. It wasn't brought up as evidence that zerg is balanced. It was just Day[9] laughing and saying 'oh 2 Global Star Leagues is that all?'. IdrA brought it up.
Grantiere
Profile Joined March 2011
United States129 Posts
April 08 2011 20:07 GMT
#14475
On April 09 2011 04:30 The KY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:23 Grantiere wrote:
On April 09 2011 04:17 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 09 2011 03:56 Defacer wrote:
On April 09 2011 02:26 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
On April 08 2011 23:42 rolfe wrote:
On April 08 2011 16:28 Defacer wrote:
On the subject of MarineKing being emo ... am I the only one that thinks he might be gay?


i'm pretty sure huk said he has a hot girlfriend


Nah that's Rainbow. But yeah, MarineKing is probably not gay. I do not also see the relevance,or that it would be a bad thing in any way.



The dude could very well be the most sensitive and emotional professional player I've ever seen, in any sport.

I'm trying to think of another player in any sport that gets that gets that choked up with he wins or loses.

Got nothing.


C.Ronaldo. Cesc Fabregas, Diego Maradonna, Kaka, more than often a whole team fall to their knees when eliminated from the higher stages of the world cupjust to cry. Gyan broke down after missing the penalty during last year's world cup. As a matter of fact,it happens all the time in non american sports where showing emotions related to sadness isnt perceived as a non masculine quality.


Also numerous high school athletes / competitive debaters, etc. Because that's the level of emotional maturity we're talking about here with a kid in his mid teens.

Oh, and in the Miami Heat locker room after that one game they lost.


...? So it takes emotional immaturity to cry when you fail at something you've devoted your life to?


No, I wasn't suggesting that those players are emotionally immature. I'm saying that comparing a teenager to an adult, holding them to the same standard of emotional sensitivity, and then speculating about his sexuality based off of that is ridiculous. To your point, he could be emotional because he won or lost something important. To mine, he could be emotional because teenagers are emotional. Both are reasonable explanations; neither are indications of what Defacer is suggesting.
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 20:12:55
April 08 2011 20:10 GMT
#14476
On April 09 2011 04:53 Tschis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:46 Endorsed wrote:

Put simply, I'll accept Zerg is not underpowered when Zerg starts preforming equally to the other races in tournaments. I don't think its a matter of skill. There's no reason players like Slush, Idra, Morrow, Sen, Ret, and Dimaga shouldn't be finding the same success as Terran and Protoss players, but theyre not. When we actually see Zerg representation at the highest level, and Zerg tournament wins are on par with Terran and Protoss wins I'll accept Zerg is fine. So far tournament results have basically been a Zerg scattered here and there among a sea of Protoss and Terran finding success.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just look at protoss, for months they were just doing stupid, stupid shit in both PvT and PvZ. Protoss was actually the least accomplished race for a while. Every terran in the world was like, when protoss figures out a way to not die to stim timings, they will dominate so hard. Because every once in a while we met a protoss who didn't die to those stim timings and we'd get into late game. :/ Anyway imba cries by protoss all around the world. and what happens? blizzard keeps nerfing toss, there has been zero buffs that had any real impact on the state of TvP. But suddenly the 30 percent winrate of PvT in the gsl has turned into a 70 percent winrate. Maybe, there aren't alot of good zergs because it's just harder to play, or maybe they haven't figured out ZvP, maybe there is an imbalance. We don't know, we probably never will.



0 buffs for Protoss but Terran has been consistently nerfed at some points, like Stim and Bunker time.

//tx


ya

the bunker time definitely made it so protoss went from a 30 percent winrate pvt to 70 i see. also Stim is recent, protoss were pwning terrans/zergs before 1.3. Just look up the previous GSL and GSTL. There were probably more buffs to terran, like the battle cruiser and the thor buff wich made bigger difference then the bunker and stim time increase rofl.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 08 2011 20:15 GMT
#14477
I bet that if you keep talking about MKP's sexuality someone's going to post in on PlayXP and then he's going to read it and become even more insecure.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 20:18:43
April 08 2011 20:16 GMT
#14478
On April 09 2011 04:22 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 02:50 flowSthead wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So I am addressing all Zergs and non-Zergs that believe there is an imbalance in the game with this question: What will it take for you to believe that there is not an imbalance?

This is somewhat of a loaded question so I will unpack it a bit. There are two ways to approach this question: The first from the standpoint that the game is currently imbalanced, and the second that the game is balanced. Looking at it from the first standpoint, what specific changes need to be made to make the game more balanced? Is it a few minor changes, buffs to certain zerg units, nerfs to certain protoss units, or are you looking for larger changes? What happens if Zerg gets these changes and yet Zergs keep on losing? Is the game still imbalanced?

The last two questions will make more sense when we view the original question from the standpoint of the game being relatively balanced. So again, What will it take for Zergs to not view the game as imbalanced? Is there a specific percentage of wins that Zergs need to have among pros? Do they have to win a certain number of tournaments? If Zergs make up 75% of the next GSL but a Protoss wins, is ZvP still imbalanced? What if the opposite were true?

For me, this is not even an issue of comparing it to the time it took in BroodWar for builds to be found, but for the short time that statistical data has been around, assuming that one is using statistical data and not just "I feel that game is broken". In 9 months time, how many tournaments have there been and how many pro games, as opposed to in BroodWar? In 9 months time, how many of those match ups were changed because of patches? Has there really been a good say 6 month period of time where a person can objectively look at the data, without new patches, and say "look, Zergs are only winning 35% of the time against Protoss, the imbalance is clear".

So again, what specific set of circumstances will convince a Zerg that the game is balanced?

P.S. If you do not have an answer to this question, then you should not be whining about imbalance. Just saying that specific strategies do not work or feel weak against a Protoss is not a legitimate, logical answer. You are merely sidestepping the real issue. The issue here is what are the necessary characteristics of the game being balanced. If it is a 50% win/loss ratio, then I would argue that no Zerg player can make the statement that the game is or is not balanced when there was a patch less than a month ago.

Once top level zergs stop losing to strategies and builds that a player in platinum leaguer could execute - the early game volatility of zerg is ridiculous.

If zerg scouting was better, we could actually play reactively instead of having to prepare for everything (to some extent) or play a downright unsafe style - not having to prepare for everything means zergs are stronger going into the midgame and beyond.

If you ask for a suggestion, mine is that overlords get 1 point of armour and then become biological only instead of "armoured" (seems contradictory but who cares) - that way they live longer against marines, stalkers and sentries and saccing an overlord might have a >25% chance of actually seeing something of use.

I don't really want to comment on mid-lategame ZvP because we haven't fully seen how the recent infestor change has affected it, but that too might still need work. Possibly making Corruptors less useless after the colossi/air army dies, or making neural parasite better so that corruptors aren't necessary until Fleet Beacon.


I'm going to make a UMS version of Tal'Darim Altar with a bunch of balance changes. The ones I have in mind are

+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
- No Change for now; no one's bitching about Terran

Protoss
- Put KA back in, have it increase starting energy to 65. Common request
- Change Colo Damage to 15x2 to 7(+7 to light)x2. This means Colossi are ever so slightly less good against Hydra, but are more importantly really bad against roaches, and don't rape infestors.
-Carrier build time decreased to 100, shields increased to 250. Carriers need buffs generally.
Edit: Sentry ground attack decreased from 6 to 4. A rush to FF the ramp requires a sentry-based army, so this would have a notable effect nerfing it, while still having FF be useful for it's intended purpose.

Zerg
-Overlord Speed Available from hatch, and costs 50/50.
-Overlords, Overseers and Queens get a slight speed buff. Both this and the above are things Idra's suggested.
-Queen ground attack changed from 4x2 to 6x2. I just think Queens need a use in a fight. It makes Zerg a tiny bit safer, but I just kind of like it.
-Nydus Worm cost decreased to 50/50 to encourage their use
-Ultralisk costs changed from 300/200 to 200/300. Making lategame things mineral light and gas heavy encourages Z to take a lot of bases (as they were talking about in SOTG)
-To account for their increased cost, Ultralisks now have +100 HP. They will also have a speed increase (or an upgrade like in BW) so they can't just be kited.
-Finally, Adrenal Glands decreases Zergling attack cooldown to 0.480, about doubling it's effect. This makes Crack a better and more dramatic upgrade, and makes things like Nydus Worms and Drops a lot scarier


It'd be pretty interesting if we could get some higher level (even just "Masters League") players to do a decent number of ZvPs with these changes, and see what it ACTUALLY does to balance.
imbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom320 Posts
April 08 2011 20:17 GMT
#14479
its very easy for a non competitive caster who plays random to say balance should be irrelevant imo, and i dont get tylers attitude either; hasn't he and geoff at least semi-whined about protoss in the past? i remember a long rant in an older episode. i want to say the one with painuser and the infamous dts v banshees. i seem to recall both tyler and geoff whining about it. im pretty sure it was in that episode as it was the first show i ever dled.
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
April 08 2011 20:43 GMT
#14480
On April 09 2011 05:10 Endorsed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 04:53 Tschis wrote:
On April 09 2011 04:46 Endorsed wrote:

Put simply, I'll accept Zerg is not underpowered when Zerg starts preforming equally to the other races in tournaments. I don't think its a matter of skill. There's no reason players like Slush, Idra, Morrow, Sen, Ret, and Dimaga shouldn't be finding the same success as Terran and Protoss players, but theyre not. When we actually see Zerg representation at the highest level, and Zerg tournament wins are on par with Terran and Protoss wins I'll accept Zerg is fine. So far tournament results have basically been a Zerg scattered here and there among a sea of Protoss and Terran finding success.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just look at protoss, for months they were just doing stupid, stupid shit in both PvT and PvZ. Protoss was actually the least accomplished race for a while. Every terran in the world was like, when protoss figures out a way to not die to stim timings, they will dominate so hard. Because every once in a while we met a protoss who didn't die to those stim timings and we'd get into late game. :/ Anyway imba cries by protoss all around the world. and what happens? blizzard keeps nerfing toss, there has been zero buffs that had any real impact on the state of TvP. But suddenly the 30 percent winrate of PvT in the gsl has turned into a 70 percent winrate. Maybe, there aren't alot of good zergs because it's just harder to play, or maybe they haven't figured out ZvP, maybe there is an imbalance. We don't know, we probably never will.



0 buffs for Protoss but Terran has been consistently nerfed at some points, like Stim and Bunker time.

//tx


ya

the bunker time definitely made it so protoss went from a 30 percent winrate pvt to 70 i see. also Stim is recent, protoss were pwning terrans/zergs before 1.3. Just look up the previous GSL and GSTL. There were probably more buffs to terran, like the battle cruiser and the thor buff wich made bigger difference then the bunker and stim time increase rofl.


Because Protoss was buffed in the previous patch. Contrary to what you said, that Toss got 0 buffs. Void Rays got buffed, Phoenix build time was decreased, Observer price was decreased.

I think I only heard of 1-2 games where Battlecruisers were used against Toss after 1.3, so it's not like it changed the outcome of this MU drastically (I might be wrong). A lot of T victories were obtained with timing attacks, just like Protoss is doing now, and the key timing of Stim was very important.

//tx
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
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