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I have less respect for SelecT and won't be supporting him.
Honestly, I can't believe how immature and ridiculous he responded to this whole thing. What inC said was perfectly reasonable and politely stated.
I'm sorry but any criticism in which you include in the same sentence that the guy is a "fucking boss", if he wants to be upset about that then thats petty and ridiculous.
If he wants to be in this scene he needs to get used to the fact that people will be watching him closely, analysing his play and constructively criticising it. To refuse to shake someone's hand because they criticised an aspect of your play in a polite manner? Get off your high horse, please.
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I'm kind of surprised people still care about the select drama.
Putting aside whether or not InControl said anything bad about him, who cares? There's plenty of other more interesting things going on in the scene than gossip about what one player thinks about another.
I'm glad they don't devote much time to that stuff in the actual podcast. It's been a great listen so far.
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If you didn't already know, players always talk trash about other players. Its competition.
I remember reading a while back that players after Proleague always talk smack about the other players if they win/lose, just behind the cameras. The only difference now is that it's "public" but don't expect that everyones shaking hands, sharing germs, and making out when the cameras turn off.
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Select Drama. Sorry can't help myself...
So look, I think the sad truth is a lot of people enjoy the soap opera elements of the pro scene. I read in another thread that it's common/expected in American professional sports for players to trash talk each other and that that's part of the fun of following a sport. I have no idea if this is really true or not - I've certainly read plenty of Americans here say that they hate BM and think it's all childish, so I don't know.
However. I think on reflection it's probably best for pro players - inasmuch as it is humanly possible - to go out of their way to avoid allowing us, the unwashed masses, who are baiting and trolling and hollering for "drama", mediate their professional relationships with each other.
Inc said some things, some objective commentary on Select's play, some jokes/"jokes" which were not related to his play. If Select hears Inc say something he wasn't, it's up to him to speak to Inc or Inc speak to Select and sort it out, if they can. Select -shouldn't- be listening to what any of us say about what Inc said - what do we know? And Inc shouldn't really be having to defend or justify himself to us.
TL and other fan places leap on any hint of BM or drama between players because it's human nature I guess to enjoy gossip and trade opinions and reveal secrets and so on. It's not a particularly edifying spectacle. I'd be sad to think though that TL in it's hunger for "outside the game action" is helping to aggravate tension between real people, all of whom, minimally, as professionals who take a sport we love very very seriously, deserve a certain baseline of respect.
Ok I hereby promise never to discuss this sort of thing again. : )
My 2c.
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Canada13425 Posts
Great show keep up the work I listen every week
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On November 22 2010 09:54 ironwarrior wrote:
Great show keep up the work I listen every week
Just wanted to echo this! 
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LOL.
I've listened to every podcast, in order, since the Idra and Psy episode. I've probably listened to each cast at least twice. I think it's pretty clear that I'm a big fan of the show.
I don't need to go back and listen to podcast. I know what InControl said, and the context in which he said it, partially because I have OCD, but partially because I have a very good memory.
Let's travel back in time, shall we!
Now I'm going to paraphrase here and go by memory. You guys can go ahead and listen to this podcast and call bullshit on me if you want. Go for it, man. I'm not doing your homework for you.
It's Saturday evening. IdrA just won MLG DC, and has joined the podcast along with InControl and Nony. Machine is there, and I believe Slasher is in the background -- he is restricted to one-word answers. JP asks Nony, who played against Select (and I think was eliminated by him) what it was like to play against him.
Before Nony can answer, InControl says:
"Select finished second. That's an amazing accomplishment, and you can't take anything away from him. GOOD JOB SELECT.
"BUT ...
"If he wants to continue to do well in the future he is going to have to change his build."
There's some banter, but at some point InControl says:
"His PVZ is FUCKING TERRIBLE."
JP mentions that Select wrote in-game that he didn't have much practice against zerg. Idra, in the background, says something like, "Yeah ... I can believe that ... ." (IdrA's referencing the lack of good Zergs on the NA ladder).
InControl interrupts: "WHO SAYS THAT? In the MIDDLE OF A GAME ... Does Roger Clemens go out to the pitcher's mound and say, I'm sorry, I didn't have time to practice BASEBALL?"
Or something like that.
Why is this controversial at all? Well, it isn't.
It's only interesting because it happened after Select had beaten a shitload of good Toss players to take 2nd at MLG. And it wasn't because of any 'cheese', or any spectacular play, Select simply outworked all of them. When the best Toss player in North America mothership rushes you because he's too lazy to try and win, than that says something about hard-working you are. So it's weird how instead of hearing about how Select won, the narrative that weekend was how one-dimensional his game play was.
For some reason, whenever someone pointed this out on the boards, instead of anyone actually discussing it, you would get a bunch of LimpBizkit-Jugaloo-type TL fanboys accusing people like me that I must "be a hater" or "an idiot" or "I can't take a joke" or even worse, that "I'm not a pro and they are so I should just listen to them and not have an opinion hardy har har."
I like SOTG. I like InControl and listening to his opinion. In this case he had a opinion about a player being one-dimensional. At that point, the conversation should have evolved into a discussion: is that really a bad thing? So are you saying that all the players he beat the weekend just hadn't solved that style? Isn't there merit in abusing a strategy if it works consistency? Couldn't a player like Idra be considered one-dimensional? Et Cetera.
Instead, it devolved. To InControl accusing FANS or accusing HIM of talking SHIT which he kind of DID but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be because TL JOCKRIDERS got all DEFENSIVE whenever anyone has an opinion that contradicts a player that they're GAY FOR so people respond and it all gets out of proportion.
IT'S THE CIRCLE OF LIFE, FOLKS!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 22 2010 09:49 chocopan wrote:
TL and other fan places leap on any hint of BM or drama between players because it's human nature I guess to enjoy gossip and trade opinions and reveal secrets and so on. It's not a particularly edifying spectacle. I'd be sad to think though that TL in it's hunger for "outside the game action" is helping to aggravate tension between real people, all of whom, minimally, as professionals who take a sport we love very very seriously, deserve a certain baseline of respect.
Ok I hereby promise never to discuss this sort of thing again. : )
My 2c.
Truth is, part of the reason I follow sports isn't for the game -- although obviously, that's a huge part -- it's the players. It's the reason I follow basketball, too.
I'm the type of guy that read's interviews with David Stern, or checked Lakers box scores to see how Kobe's trial was effecting his game, or know that Steve Nash can stand on a yoga ball straightup with-out hands.
It's the personalities that draw me to the sport.
But I agree that that baseline of respect is important. And if I'm ever disrespectful ... well, it was by accident. Everyone is an armchair quarterback: they not only have someone they root for, but ideas of how they can be better. It is probably mostly misguided, but it's part of being a fan.
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Yea you summed it up pretty well Defacer, though I didn't think the cast should have been inclined to praise select the whole time despite how well he played or whatever... like you said, it's an opinion show and they say what they feel, which is the charm of it.
Basically TL fanboys, it's time to move on. (but I won't be holding my breath on that one)
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I love what you guys do, thanks for bringing these awesome podcasts. I salute you all that are inolved!
Last episode was epic. I just missed that Sean wasnt in on the discussion about TvP/P units and lategame T units. I really think he disagrees about the zealot, and it'd be interesting to hear his opinion when you sit down like that and discuss it instead of hearing him talk about it alone in his room .
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This is worse than high school drama... who. fucking. cares.
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On the cast they said that pros don't like to look at threads about them because of the arseholes, even though the arseholes might be in the vast minority.
I respectfully disagree. This particular thread seems to be about 80% arsehole.
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On November 22 2010 10:41 fush wrote:
Basically TL fanboys, it's time to move on. (but I won't be holding my breath on that one)
Agreed. And let me be the first to apologize to everyone for belabouring it.
I apologize.
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On November 22 2010 10:50 Kyuki wrote:I love what you guys do, thanks for bringing these awesome podcasts. I salute you all that are inolved! Last episode was epic. I just missed that Sean wasnt in on the discussion about TvP/P units and lategame T units. I really think he disagrees about the zealot, and it'd be interesting to hear his opinion when you sit down like that and discuss it instead of hearing him talk about it alone in his room .
Agreed, I also found it slightly disappointing that Sean didn't discuss with Tyler about his play, seeing as Day9 daily right before was actually about one of Tyler's games. Could have sparked some interesting discussions!
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On November 22 2010 12:00 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 10:50 Kyuki wrote:I love what you guys do, thanks for bringing these awesome podcasts. I salute you all that are inolved! Last episode was epic. I just missed that Sean wasnt in on the discussion about TvP/P units and lategame T units. I really think he disagrees about the zealot, and it'd be interesting to hear his opinion when you sit down like that and discuss it instead of hearing him talk about it alone in his room . Agreed, I also found it slightly disappointing that Sean didn't discuss with Tyler about his play, seeing as Day9 daily right before was actually about one of Tyler's games. Could have sparked some interesting discussions!
I remember Nony mentioning trying to use them with Warp Prisms if you have the extra minerals. Couldn't tell if he was being serious or not.
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On November 22 2010 09:28 Subversion wrote:
I have less respect for SelecT and won't be supporting him.
Honestly, I can't believe how immature and ridiculous he responded to this whole thing. What inC said was perfectly reasonable and politely stated.
I'm sorry but any criticism in which you include in the same sentence that the guy is a "fucking boss", if he wants to be upset about that then thats petty and ridiculous.
If he wants to be in this scene he needs to get used to the fact that people will be watching him closely, analysing his play and constructively criticising it. To refuse to shake someone's hand because they criticised an aspect of your play in a polite manner? Get off your high horse, please.
TBH I don't think that's his personality; I think it's more of a cultural thing plus, your not taking into account that he could have never listened to the stream and only heard the hear say about it. ( All the bs posts from bronze league nubs who started this whole shit storm.)
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Great Podcast guys!
Who the fuck cares about the select bs, it was funny for like a day now i feel like the long posts are just troll trying to get a rise out of Geoff, can we just stop?
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yo indrajit is totally Indian, not an Native American. i would've preferred an Indian parody
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Its like this is fucking middle school, honestly can we act even slightly mature? Who cares if incontrol says good or bad things about other players, thats what makes the show interesting. There is no way I could get a trough a 2 hour podcast if everyone just kissed eachother's ass.
incontrol you're bad ass. All the people hating so much need to stop being so sensitive.
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On November 22 2010 13:42 AJ- wrote:
yo indrajit is totally Indian, not an Native American. i would've preferred an Indian parody
Yeah I can't wait! Indian accents and parodies thereof crack me up so much... and if done by Incontrol... it will be so good. Though you gotta admit his Native American parody was solid too.
Never stop, guys. Never stop being completely hilarious.
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EPT
