EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2425
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Yoduh
United States216 Posts
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:00 Liquid`NonY wrote: ---- As for the way JP, Geoff and Greg behaved, there's really no defending it either. There's certainly plenty of explaining it. It was nowhere near as bad as some people paint it. Context and history also soften the picture for people who saw only this one incident. But it still wasn't the kind of behavior I'd want to see on a show and not the kind of show that I want to be a part of. When JP and Geoff said it was happening, I just took a back seat because there have been many things that they do that turn out to be awesome and popular which I wouldn't have done. Now some of those things have gone so bad that I think we'll have to be more careful. I didn't know how this would go. There was a chance it could have been awesome and I don't like preventing things that might turn out awesome just because some sensitive people might be outraged over cringing for two minutes one time. But it's also our (unpaid) job to bring you awesome, all the damn time. So what bothers me isn't so much that Avilo had a bad time (I'm not responsible for him) but rather that SOTG presented a shitty segment. It's a difficulty of a live show. To quote Geoff, this was a learning experience. We've got to get better. Next time we'll be better. (Unless we suck next time too, and then that'll also be a learning experience, and we'll be better the time after that, trust me.) The problem is not "making a mistake". I dont even know this avilo guy and it have nothing to do with the topic they discussed. It have to do with social behaviour and quality of entertainment. They way they talked to him and the fact that jp throw him out in the middle of the sentence after inviting and blaming him is not an mistake. It shows their character. Thats the problem. They think. its funny to invite a guy blame him and throw him out again and this is great content for the audience. If you want this level of entertaining you can just turn on the tv. Its nothing for me and for most people here. | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:10 skeldark wrote: The problem is not "making a mistake". I dont even know this avilo guy and it have nothing to do with the topic they discussed. It have to do with social behaviour and quality of entertainment. They way they talked to him and the fact that jp throw him out in the middle of the sentence after inviting and blaming him is not an mistake. It shows their character. Thats the problem. They think its funny to invite a guy blame him and throw him out again and think, this will make great content for the audience. If you want this level of entertaining you can just turn on the tv. Its nothing for me and for most people here. So I guess you're done after this? | ||
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flowSthead
1065 Posts
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UBavarice
Sweden358 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:10 skeldark wrote: The problem is not "making a mistake". I dont even know this avilo guy and it have nothing to do with the topic they discussed. It have to do with social behaviour and quality of entertainment. They way they talked to him and the fact that jp throw him out in the middle of the sentence after inviting and blaming him is not an mistake. It shows their character. Thats the problem. They think. its funny to invite a guy blame him and throw him out again and this is great content for the audience. If you want this level of entertaining you can just turn on the tv. Its nothing for me and for most people here. I think it wasn't perfect to drop avilo so suddenly but I think it was right to drop him. I think if JP had just interrupted and said "Avilo, thanks for coming on but I think this is going downhill and I'm cutting it short" then that would have been fine. I find it interesting how people can say the segment was so bad, and so bad for Avilo, and then also complain about JP cutting the segment short. I hope that the complaint is only about the manner in which he did it, not that he did it. Cutting him off without saying anything at all was just a neutral, no nonsense way to do it. Politeness and rudeness were both possible and neither route was taken. But I do understand the sentiment that not saying anything at all is rude, though I think that's a level of sensitivity too fine for a situation in which people were exploding with emotion. At some point a situation gets so emotional and extreme that common politeness decreases in value and decisive actions to end the situation increase in value. | ||
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gasmeter
United Kingdom249 Posts
JP, in particular, should be ashamed of the way he treated Avilo, from putting up that ridiculous picture of him when he stated he had a webcam, to kicking him from the show just because Idra got annoyed. Avilo deserves an apology from JP. Edit in response to Tyler: I think the segment was great and the debate was well balanced (even if the topic was about imbalance!). But the way he was removed from the show was incorrect. | ||
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TeslaTrooper
United States8 Posts
Also, I think balance discussion in that form is pretty useless. Its always easy to say "terran can do such-and-such," but I think you really need to be looking at a replay or watching someone play to determine if that is really feasible or if it has such a high skill requirement compared to what the other race has to do that it does make the matchup imbalanced. | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:53 yeint wrote: So he's basically the Terran equivalent of Idra, except with slightly worse results and no time spent being the Great White Hope in Korea? If you actually knew about all of IdrA's achievements you wouldn't be using the word "slightly." | ||
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Positronic
121 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:23 gasmeter wrote: There is no excuse for the way JP, Geoff and Greg behaved during the recent episode of SOTG. The laughter that ensued after the introduction of Avilo to the show by JP and Geoff was inexcusable. You may not like the guy, but have a little respect for him, especially considering there was a legitimate debate going on about an important topic. JP, in particular, should be ashamed of the way he treated Avilo, from putting up that ridiculous picture of him when he stated he had a webcam, to kicking him from the show just because Idra got annoyed. Avilo deserves an apology from JP. you might want to edit that post before being temp banned for complaining about picture-gate | ||
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gasmeter
United Kingdom249 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:24 Positronic wrote: you might want to edit that post before being temp banned for complaining about picture-gate I haven't seen any moderator comments warning members about discussing the use of the Avilo picture. | ||
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EsMuyVien
United States408 Posts
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:19 Liquid`NonY wrote: I think it wasn't perfect to drop avilo so suddenly but I think it was right to drop him. I think if JP had just interrupted and said "Avilo, thanks for coming on but I think this is going downhill and I'm cutting it short" then that would have been fine. I find it interesting how people can say the segment was so bad, and so bad for Avilo, and then also complain about JP cutting the segment short. I hope that the complaint is only about the manner in which he did it, not that he did it. Cutting him off without saying anything at all was just a neutral, no nonsense way to do it. Politeness and rudeness were both possible and neither route was taken. But I do understand the sentiment that not saying anything at all is rude, though I think that's a level of sensitivity too fine for a situation in which people were exploding with emotion. At some point a situation gets so emotional and extreme that common politeness decreases in value and decisive actions to end the situation increase in value. i agree he can cut it short. And yes he should say "thank you..." thats showing a minimum of respect, what he did not. But its not only the cut off. Its ,invite him, make fun about him, blame him and than kick him because it gets emotional. If it was only a exploding, jp could at least say sorry for what he did. But even in the end they blamed him in the same sentence they said sorry and defended the cut off. I understand your position and that you where happy to just get over it and that this stops at the moment. If you rewatch this part of the show and try to watch it from an outside perspective, i think you will agree that this was lowest quality of social behaviour and entertainment. And that was not an mistake or an exploding they set it up from the beginning so it had to end this way. | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
... Avilo: If we judge wrong there is no turning back. We cant roll back time to build vikings or marauders. Mass queens are an good. IdrA: I haven't explored mass queens much. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad. If a player makes the wrong decisions or bad decisions, he will lose. If zerg got enough resources to switch and terran doesn't, zerg will win. But as... Avilo: That's exactly...! IdrA: Shut the fuck up. As I was telling QXC... Avilo: That's exactly what I was saying! They do have the economy because they can make more drones now because of the queen buff. Incontrol: Avilo, can you let IdrA finish. Avilo: I was agreeing with IdrA. The zergs do have the economy, so a terran does lose. IdrA: Zerg has the economy if you are fucking bad. As I was telling QXC, if you play the bio style and are agressive and expand just as much as the zerg does, you will have the same economy. It's possible and can be done if you're not fucking terrible like you. You can match zergs economy and put up four starports out and deal with the air switch just fine even if you don't know it's comming before it's made. Avilo: Ok, without taking cheap shots like you just did to me. That queen buff let's zerg get that economy, I agree with you IdrA. IdrA: That's not what I said at all. Avilo: That is what you said. If zerg can power their economy... IdrA: I'm not going to talk to him anymore. My interpretation: 1) Avilo interrupted IdrA when he tried to make a point. +1 bad behaviour point for Avilo 2) IdrA became irritated and told him to shut the fuck up. +1 bad behaviour point for IdrA 3) Avilo interrupted IdrA when he tried to make a point and tells IdrA that IdrA agreed that zergs can ge a better economy and therefore win. +2 bad behaviour points for Avilo 4) Incontrol told him to shut it (a little bit nicer) the second time. 5) IdrA says the one with the best economy wins and that terran can get an equaly good economy as zerg. He also tells Avilo that he sucks at the game. +1 bad behaviour point for IdrA 5) Avilo missquoted IdrA and telling him he said stuff he didn't say. +1 bad behaviour point for Avilo 6) IdrA told him that was not what he had said. 7) Avilo continues to tell IdrA what he said. +1 bad behaviour point for Avilo 8) IdrA tells JP he had enough. Bad behaviour scoreboard: IdrA: 2 points. Avilo: 5 points. Conclusion: IdrA being IdrA. Avilo being the wrong person to have in a serious balance discussion. He got more attention than he deserved. | ||
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Christolight
United States46 Posts
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Mellowman
30 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:31 iNcontroL wrote: Here is the PM he sent me: I'm going to commit underaged drinking for the first time the day you get fired. IDK Why I am sending this to you though, I can just see you, in your oversized chair, in your oversized house, for which you do not pay, grinning to yourself as you think about all the hardworking folk who hate you out there and just want to see their contribution to esports be used wisely which is instead spent on sustaining you. Oh it's going to be a gooooood day. Yo nice man. Glad to see you're religiously following the posts and replying only to the dumbest shit people have to say. Atleast you read it, keep that pm in mind  | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
Don't bother quantifying it. The lesson is simple: don't bother inviting people to your party that you or your other guests don't respect. At best it's a complete waste of time, at worst it makes everyone look and feel bad. Apply this lesson to both your personal and professional life. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
Very diplomatic, reasonable and logical. Acknowledging both sides of the drama. Maybe we can move past this and have some great shows in the future. | ||
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LovE-
United States1963 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:27 gasmeter wrote: I haven't seen any moderator comments warning members about discussing the use of the Avilo picture. Here are two from the last couple pages: On June 30 2012 05:20 Falling wrote: Why the hell are we arguing about which picture they used... when for the longest time they had a freaking bouncing fat cat for incontrol? Just drop it already. On June 30 2012 05:33 Falling wrote: If I wasn't perfectly clear the picture 'debate' can stop. | ||
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gasmeter
United Kingdom249 Posts
On June 30 2012 06:36 LovE- wrote: Here are two from the last couple pages: Thank you for finding that for me. My point has been made and my comments about it will stop. | ||
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