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On June 21 2012 11:16 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:09 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 11:07 ghrur wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 ghrur wrote:
You know, after reading through some of this recent shitfest (couldn't make it through all of it), I was wondering, why don't they invite someone like Merz or Demuslim on the show. Both are very talented Terrans that are generally well-liked by the community and would present a more Terran-biased view point to balance out the current heavily biased zerg and protoss view points of the show. And let's face it, while these guys can talk competently about Terrans, they're in no way biased for terrans but against them. They've had plenty of terrans invited to the show; wasn't qxc on last time? They just didn't have one this week. Also, why on earth do you think Incontrol or Artosis is biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? They have terrans invited, but none consistently kept on. QXC would be great too. Why on earth do you think they WOULDN'T be biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? Do you think the lack of bias helps balance the show out in any way whatsoever? Like, having Nony on there doesn't mean, HEY, Nony will argue against Idra about TvZ. No, it means, HEY, Nony will be non-partisan, and the show will still be biased against ZvT. Or, you know, you can look at how they dismissed the TvZ problem after MVP, DRG, MMA, and Supernova all called Imba. Wait, DRG? Yes, DRG. A zerg. Besides, why is everyone so AGAINST adding a great Terran like QXC or Demuslim? I don't understand. :/ I don't think anyone is really against it, it's just that most people don't think it's a big issue. There was one guy on the show that might be biased in a TvZ, and no one really takes his balance complaints seriously. (not even me as a fan :D) Idk. I thought it became a big issue this week as everyone blew up at it, especially since TvZ really seems to be in a mess right now. Also, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but please don't speak for the majority when we don't even know how to really define that. :/ Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 21 2012 11:07 ghrur wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 ghrur wrote:
You know, after reading through some of this recent shitfest (couldn't make it through all of it), I was wondering, why don't they invite someone like Merz or Demuslim on the show. Both are very talented Terrans that are generally well-liked by the community and would present a more Terran-biased view point to balance out the current heavily biased zerg and protoss view points of the show. And let's face it, while these guys can talk competently about Terrans, they're in no way biased for terrans but against them. They've had plenty of terrans invited to the show; wasn't qxc on last time? They just didn't have one this week. Also, why on earth do you think Incontrol or Artosis is biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? They have terrans invited, but none consistently kept on. QXC would be great too. Why on earth do you think they WOULDN'T be biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? Do you think the lack of bias helps balance the show out in any way whatsoever? Like, having Nony on there doesn't mean, HEY, Nony will argue against Idra about TvZ. No, it means, HEY, Nony will be non-partisan, and the show will still be biased against ZvT. Or, you know, you can look at how they dismissed the TvZ problem after MVP, DRG, MMA, and Supernova all called Imba. Wait, DRG? Yes, DRG. A zerg. Besides, why is everyone so AGAINST adding a great Terran like QXC or Demuslim? I don't understand. :/ no one is against it. why dont you go petition qxc or demuslim to join the crew? Cuz to be honest, I don't really care. Hell, I don't even watch SC2 much. Why don't you go petition it? I mean, it must be more useful than being a condescending asshole day right? Better yet, why not just ask JP to do it? It's his show anyway.
im not going to petition it because i dont care. if you care so much, do something about it.
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Guys, I think its clear that State of the Game is Congress, and anything sort of perfectly proportional representation for each race will not be tolerated.
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United States3786 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:16 ghrur wrote:On June 21 2012 11:09 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 11:07 ghrur wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 ghrur wrote:
You know, after reading through some of this recent shitfest (couldn't make it through all of it), I was wondering, why don't they invite someone like Merz or Demuslim on the show. Both are very talented Terrans that are generally well-liked by the community and would present a more Terran-biased view point to balance out the current heavily biased zerg and protoss view points of the show. And let's face it, while these guys can talk competently about Terrans, they're in no way biased for terrans but against them. They've had plenty of terrans invited to the show; wasn't qxc on last time? They just didn't have one this week. Also, why on earth do you think Incontrol or Artosis is biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? They have terrans invited, but none consistently kept on. QXC would be great too. Why on earth do you think they WOULDN'T be biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? Do you think the lack of bias helps balance the show out in any way whatsoever? Like, having Nony on there doesn't mean, HEY, Nony will argue against Idra about TvZ. No, it means, HEY, Nony will be non-partisan, and the show will still be biased against ZvT. Or, you know, you can look at how they dismissed the TvZ problem after MVP, DRG, MMA, and Supernova all called Imba. Wait, DRG? Yes, DRG. A zerg. Besides, why is everyone so AGAINST adding a great Terran like QXC or Demuslim? I don't understand. :/ I don't think anyone is really against it, it's just that most people don't think it's a big issue. There was one guy on the show that might be biased in a TvZ, and no one really takes his balance complaints seriously. (not even me as a fan :D) Idk. I thought it became a big issue this week as everyone blew up at it, especially since TvZ really seems to be in a mess right now. Also, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but please don't speak for the majority when we don't even know how to really define that. :/ On June 21 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 21 2012 11:07 ghrur wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 nkr wrote:On June 21 2012 10:54 ghrur wrote:
You know, after reading through some of this recent shitfest (couldn't make it through all of it), I was wondering, why don't they invite someone like Merz or Demuslim on the show. Both are very talented Terrans that are generally well-liked by the community and would present a more Terran-biased view point to balance out the current heavily biased zerg and protoss view points of the show. And let's face it, while these guys can talk competently about Terrans, they're in no way biased for terrans but against them. They've had plenty of terrans invited to the show; wasn't qxc on last time? They just didn't have one this week. Also, why on earth do you think Incontrol or Artosis is biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? They have terrans invited, but none consistently kept on. QXC would be great too. Why on earth do you think they WOULDN'T be biased against terran in a TvZ discussion? Do you think the lack of bias helps balance the show out in any way whatsoever? Like, having Nony on there doesn't mean, HEY, Nony will argue against Idra about TvZ. No, it means, HEY, Nony will be non-partisan, and the show will still be biased against ZvT. Or, you know, you can look at how they dismissed the TvZ problem after MVP, DRG, MMA, and Supernova all called Imba. Wait, DRG? Yes, DRG. A zerg. Besides, why is everyone so AGAINST adding a great Terran like QXC or Demuslim? I don't understand. :/ no one is against it. why dont you go petition qxc or demuslim to join the crew? Cuz to be honest, I don't really care. Hell, I don't even watch SC2 much. Why don't you go petition it? I mean, it must be more useful than being a condescending asshole day right? Better yet, why not just ask JP to do it? It's his show anyway. im not going to petition it because i dont care. if you care so much, do something about it.
Do you read...?
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On June 21 2012 11:16 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:11 walklightwhat wrote:On June 21 2012 11:09 Twistacles wrote:
Listen, I LOVE sotg. I've listened to every episode, and will continue to.
A terran on the show would be great. It would make the show better. But even if you don't... I'll still watch. Cause I like it.
You guys comments on Terran anything has been making terrans around the world cringe for a long, long time, though. It would make the show better if the Terran actually fits on the show. Having a Terran who just wants to come on and cry and whine and shout and argue will just make it worse. There are plenty of platforms for them to do that. By other platforms do you mean forums? Because terrans never get flamed on the forums. And why do you assume having a terran would lead to whining and arguing? Having another perspective might actually lead to a better discussion.
I never said it would lead to it. I said if that's all the Terran is interested in. if they can contribute to other aspects of the show, rather than just balance stuff, a Terran would be a tremendous addition.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the worst episodes for me were the ones with balance as the overriding theme. As part of a discussion? Fine. As the whole thing? I'll pass.
And do I really need to point out how many avenues Pros have for expressing their opinions on the Internet? Blogs, Videos, streams etc. etc.
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Two questions for iNcontroL:
1. I agree you are better qualified to discuss TvZ than 99.9999% of the Starraft 2 population and I believe avilo is wrong to say you are not qualified to discuss Terran, but do you believe you are better qualified than avilo?
2. Would you give odds for your showmatch challenge? If so, how high? 2-1? 3-1?
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On June 21 2012 11:15 zhurai wrote:
tbh, qxc wasn't around so jp shrugged and went on with business. but illusion apparently said he would've but. yawn.
Actually, he said no but. yawn.
+ Show Spoiler +
Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's weren't avail so I went on ahead without them. It's been 30 pages and for some reason Avilo, along with flinging shit at me, is still talking in here about how he should of been on the show. Give it a rest man and go back to streaming and getting worthwhile limelight rather then getting anti-fans by posting in here.
Can we please move on to talking about something else? Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here.
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On June 21 2012 11:18 Zambrah wrote:
Guys, I think its clear that State of the Game is Congress, and anything sort of perfectly proportional representation for each race will not be tolerated.
Who said a thing about proportional? Terrans just want more than 0 representation (or 0.3 if you want to count JP's apparent random Masters)
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Honestly reading some of the arguments and nonsensical flaming in this thread is very disheartening.
If you don't like the show then don't watch it.
If you like the show then watch it.
Don't flame. Constructive feedback is always cool, but not OMFG INCONTROL IZ NO TURN BETR DEMAND HE KICKED OFF
........................
Incontrol bunker rushed my heart.
Better than avilo could have done.
wat
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On June 21 2012 11:24 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:18 Zambrah wrote:
Guys, I think its clear that State of the Game is Congress, and anything sort of perfectly proportional representation for each race will not be tolerated. Who said a thing about proportional? Terrans just want more than 0 representation (or 0.3 if you want to count JP's apparent random Masters)
This is the mindset that blows my mind. Why do you NEED representation? Idra/Artosis/INc were not saying outlandish things. While they had a small tangent about maybe Terran players were just used to winning and being bad, other than that their mindset was simply one that is close to "let's wait and see." They weren't saying everything was balanced, they were basically saying that with the big change recently we have to see how things play out. That's extremely rational... yet everybody is up in arms over supposed slights against the terran race. Rather than a balance discussion, people are just seemingly calling for a terran to be on and just complain about everything, by the sound of this thread.
AND, this is still SotG, where balance discussions happen extremely seldom and yet people still think it's important.
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On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:15 zhurai wrote:
tbh, qxc wasn't around so jp shrugged and went on with business. but illusion apparently said he would've but. yawn. Actually, he said no but. yawn. + Show Spoiler +Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's weren't avail so I went on ahead without them. It's been 30 pages and for some reason Avilo, along with flinging shit at me, is still talking in here about how he should of been on the show. Give it a rest man and go back to streaming and getting worthwhile limelight rather then getting anti-fans by posting in here. Can we please move on to talking about something else? Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here.
Yea I agree with JP. Please keep all of the nonsense out of this thread.
Thank you JP for hosting another great SoTG!
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On June 21 2012 10:06 PesteNoire wrote:State of the game, and its debate team of Artosis, Incontrol, and Idra embarrassed themselves on the current state of TvZ issue. Last 52 TvZ GSL matches: 30.7% win rateGSTL Season 2Terran win: 3 Zerg win: 14 Win rate: 17.6% GSL Season 3Terran win: 13 Zerg win: 22 Win rate: 37.1% In sumTotal played: 52 Terran win: 16 Zerg win: 36 Win rate: 30.7% Source: gomtv.net + Show Spoiler +
This is nice and all, but it is a bit misleading. GSL Season 3 just started and it takes a long time to complete. There are going to be many more TvZs and that percentage could wind up being totally different by the end of the season. I think everyone can agree that at the moment Zerg is definitely strong, but considering it has been a little more than a month after a patch hit, that isn't surprising.
What happened might be "Balance Breaking". It is too early to tell. Terrans are having trouble at the moment, but that doesn't preclude new strategies from being created that will make it more even again. I think as well that SOTG was a little quick to dismiss it, but they aren't embarrassing themselves by advocating a "wait and see" approach. And just because a bunch of Terrans are complaining about balance, doesn't mean there is an issue. Yes, they are losing more, but that is the current "state of the game". That could be entirely different a month or two from now without any patch changes.
I just don't see why people are so quick to call the apocalypse. Yes, Terrans are struggling, but you don't have to have such a grim outlook on it. It is impossible to predict future results from present results. MarineKing still beat Yu Gi Oh; Maru lost 2 to 1 to both DRG and ViOLet. It isn't impossible to beat Zergs, it's just become harder.
What happened to all of the problems Terrans had in TvP? There was no balance change to help Terrans, and now things are looking a bit more even. It's really weird to have this discussion because it seems like people have really short term memories when it comes to balance. Every new problem is the worst thing that has ever happened and needs to be fixed right away. Just give it some time and if in a few months the problem persists, then perhaps a change will be needed.
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LMAO @ people talking about this like it's a legitimate scandal. Acting like SOTG needs to be held up to some esports law where all race perspectives must be given equal airtime LOL. I honestly cannot begin to fathom why anyone would get worked up about this. Guess I'm just not a drama queen.
It's too bad that this thread has become a safe haven for butthurt kids to carry on arguments that would get locked anywhere else.
EDIT: I've created a thread in Website Feedback asking for more moderation of off-topic posts in this thread, I'd encourage anyone who agrees with me to post there as well.
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On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's
This. This has simultaneously become a general balance discussion and a stop whining/no you don't understand thread. Nothing to do with a constructive feedback thread.
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On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here.
If we can get an avilo vs iNcontroL match I would say it was productive even though it wouldn't actually prove anything.
Also thank you for trying to get a Terran on and for everything else you do and for bringing up my stats on recent Terran results of no wins* though I don't know if you got it directly from me.
*I didn't mean to cause trouble. I just thought it was very interesting. Based on feedback I overlooked some other WCS Finals and Terran does have 1 win from LucifroN in Spain's national. I'll probably do an update thread on reddit next week.
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The primary purpose of the fucking show is entertainment, not hardcore strategy. They shouldn't add a pro to the lineup just because they play terran, unless that individual can entertain as well. If you want to go down the strategy road, should they then replace Incontrol and Tyler with other pro protoss players who have more than a 40% win rate? The personalities make the show, not the strategy discussion.
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On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:15 zhurai wrote:
tbh, qxc wasn't around so jp shrugged and went on with business. but illusion apparently said he would've but. yawn. Actually, he said no but. yawn. + Show Spoiler +Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's weren't avail so I went on ahead without them. It's been 30 pages and for some reason Avilo, along with flinging shit at me, is still talking in here about how he should of been on the show. Give it a rest man and go back to streaming and getting worthwhile limelight rather then getting anti-fans by posting in here. Can we please move on to talking about something else? Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here.
I thank you trying. It just would've been nice if someone could've taken on the terran side for the sake of a good discussion.
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On June 21 2012 11:37 hoivenmayven wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's This. This has simultaneously become a general balance discussion and a stop whining/no you don't understand thread. Nothing to do with a constructive feedback thread.
It would help if someone from the show admits they botched the issue on the episode, and they will make sure to cover it in a more objective manner next episode.
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On June 21 2012 11:39 Duravi wrote:
The primary purpose of the fucking show is entertainment, not hardcore strategy. They shouldn't add a pro to the lineup just because they play terran, unless that individual can entertain as well. If you want to go down the strategy road, should they then replace Incontrol and Tyler with other pro protoss players who have more than a 40% win rate? The personalities make the show, not the strategy discussion.
They get an insane amount of viewers, many of whom are not very adept at SC2 and will take what they hear on the show as 100% accurate. So when they show dismisses a major issue, and then bashes Terran players for 10 minutes.. well that is going to influence a lot of peoples opinions. Everyone on that show would like to think of themselves as professionals, maybe they should start to act like it.
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I don't really care if there's a Terran voice or not on this show. I play Terran, but I don't watch the show for their "insight" into the TvP and TvZ matchups. They can be as biased as they want, and they usually are. All I ask is that they entertain me for an hour or two, and they seem to do that more often than not.
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On June 21 2012 11:38 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here. If we can get an avilo vs iNcontroL match I would say it was productive even though it wouldn't actually prove anything.Also thank you for trying to get a Terran on and for everything else you do and for bringing up my stats on recent Terran results of no wins* though I don't know if you got it directly from me. *I didn't mean to cause trouble. I just thought it was very interesting. Based on feedback I overlooked some other WCS Finals and Terran does have 1 win from LucifroN in Spain's national. I'll probably do an update thread on reddit next week.
I would say that is the opposite of productive.
On June 21 2012 11:41 PesteNoire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:37 hoivenmayven wrote:On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's This. This has simultaneously become a general balance discussion and a stop whining/no you don't understand thread. Nothing to do with a constructive feedback thread. It would help if someone from the show admits they botched the issue on the episode, and they will make sure to cover it in a more objective manner next episode.
They didn't botch shit, so you won't be hearing that anytime soon.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2bfq8.jpg)
