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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:41 nkr wrote: Avilo would probably make an alt because no one in this thread except for you agree or sympathize with him :/ I don't sympathize with him -- I don't know him -- but I agree with some of his points... that SoTG show yesterday was a freaking train wreck... good for mindless entertainment, sort of like a barbershop small talk but nothing more.. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:18 Zambrah wrote: Guys, I think its clear that State of the Game is Congress, and anything sort of perfectly proportional representation for each race will not be tolerated. So, the current analogy would be something like... Protoss = majority Rebulicans Zerg = minority Democrats Terran = LOL Independents Hahahaha Congress it is then! | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
That said, some of the principals in this thread are getting a little defensive. JP should simply try to bring on a Terran guest when discussing Terran issues. And if a big name like QXC isn't available, Avilo is a good choice. Avilo is a non-featured streamer who pulls hundreds of viewers every time he streams. For someone who's gotten on the wrong side of just about every big name in the American scene, he's been successful enough to be notable. Terrans' want someone with subtle knowledge about the Terran race and motivation to argue for the Terran perspective. While people like Artosis, Nony, and Incontrol do understand Starcraft on a grand level, they don't have the specific knowledge or the predilection Terran's want. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:23 itmeJP wrote: Actually, he said no but. yawn. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2bfq8.jpg) Also, I can't believe this shit throwing fest hasn't been locked yet. I looked for Terran's but my go-to, show-savvy T's weren't avail so I went on ahead without them. It's been 30 pages and for some reason Avilo, along with flinging shit at me, is still talking in here about how he should of been on the show. Give it a rest man and go back to streaming and getting worthwhile limelight rather then getting anti-fans by posting in here. Can we please move on to talking about something else? Nothing has been said that's productive in the past 24 hours here. Dear JP, If you cannot get the two sides of an argument is probably worthwhile considering not having the argument at all .. you could also warn us the discussion is gonna be an echo chamber in such cases and that would probably be fine too.. to be honest, the level of condescension in your last show was pretty unacceptable. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:29 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Idra/Artosis/INc were not saying outlandish things. Artosis using MVP's pre-patch GSL win as evidence of no problem? IdrA saying hellions can win games TvZ? It hasn't been true since the (semi-justified*) blue-flame nerf. It only slowed the economy enough to give Terrans a chance in mid-game and beyond. I would agree they didn't say *many* outlandish things because they only said two or three things before shrugging it off. *Zerg anti-hellion defense was very undeveloped at the time but it did imo seem to do a bit too much damage | ||
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elmizzt
United States3309 Posts
On June 21 2012 12:04 s4life wrote: Dear JP, If you cannot get the two sides of an argument is probably worthwhile considering not having the argument at all .. you could also warn us the discussion is gonna be an echo chamber in such cases and that would probably be fine too.. to be honest, the level of condescension in your last show was pretty unacceptable. WHAT. CONDESCENSION. jesus fucking christ. | ||
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Rhuubarb
Australia102 Posts
On June 21 2012 12:04 s4life wrote: Dear JP, If you cannot get the two sides of an argument is probably worthwhile considering not having the argument at all .. you could also warn us the discussion is gonna be an echo chamber in such cases and that would probably be fine too.. to be honest, the level of condescension in your last show was pretty unacceptable. If they hadn't talked about it at all, people would have lambasted them about ignoring it like they have in the past on other issues. It's pretty clear that a portion of the community (at least some of the most vocals ones recently) just want SotG to turn into a massive whinge-fest like other threads, and because they didn't do that, people complain about their behaviour or host representation as if it's something new, but it's like this every SotG... | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:59 avilo wrote: SOTG needs a Terran on it, otherwise SOTG needs to simply shut up. Unreal... Absolutely unreal. How can you even take yourself seriously? | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:53 ShatterZer0 wrote: So, the current analogy would be something like... Protoss = majority Rebulicans Zerg = minority Democrats Terran = LOL Independents Hahahaha Congress it is then! And SotG = FOX? | ||
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Rube_Juice
Canada348 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 21 2012 12:04 dvorakftw wrote: Artosis using MVP's pre-patch GSL win as evidence of no problem? IdrA saying hellions can win games TvZ? It hasn't been true since the (semi-justified*) blue-flame nerf. It only slowed the economy enough to give Terrans a chance in mid-game and beyond. I would agree they didn't say *many* outlandish things because they only said two or three things before shrugging it off. *Zerg anti-hellion defense was very undeveloped at the time but it did imo seem to do a bit too much damage Actually lately ever since the queen buff korean zergs have been ultra greedy and relying on pure queens to defend early. Then they die to 12 hellions. I have seen it a few times in GSL when watching them and cringing as they don't have a roach warren, ling speed might be done but no lings out and hellions just wreck drone count and pretty much win with just that. While the 6 queen build that is popular now is strong, the players that are getting such late ling speed are seeing it hurt them if they dont' have a roach warren or something and all of a sudden 12+ bfh come and kill you. Saw it a few times vs nestea and some other zergs. ^^ On June 21 2012 12:03 -_- wrote: At this point, I believe the hosts of SOTG are getting some compensation for the show (which is why they are committed to 3 episodes per month). So, while it would be nice to have a Terran perspective on every show, I doubt any high level Terran player would want to commit himself to the show without payment, and I doubt JP is getting enough to bring another person in. I don't think getting a Terran pillar on SOTG would be as easy as simply asking for one. That said, some of the principals in this thread are getting a little defensive. JP should simply try to bring on a Terran guest when discussing Terran issues. And if a big name like QXC isn't available, Avilo is a good choice. Avilo is a non-featured streamer who pulls hundreds of viewers every time he streams. For someone who's gotten on the wrong side of just about every big name in the American scene, he's been successful enough to be notable. Terrans' want someone with subtle knowledge about the Terran race and motivation to argue for the Terran perspective. While people like Artosis, Nony, and Incontrol do understand Starcraft on a grand level, they don't have the specific knowledge or the predilection Terran's want. Actually Avilo is a terrible choice. He has complained and argued that Terran was super weak since beta ended. Just look at some of his posts when terrans were dominating hardcore and he would say "terrans will never win vs x race again". 2 years and they still dominated most tournaments until the past month or so. No he is biased as shit and would provide nothing new. Now get thorzain/Demuslim some time and that would be more interesting as they are a lot better then Avilo and while of course some bias towards their race they aren't blinded by it like him. | ||
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hoivenmayven
United States134 Posts
On June 21 2012 12:50 Rube_Juice wrote: I've played Avilo thrice on ladder, he is BM and whiny as shit. Super quick to accuse you of maphacking when he tries to drop across the same path 8 times in one game, too. No respect whatsoever, is this guy sixteen or something? No he's old. He's just never been able to be more than semi-pro and hasn't come to terms with it yet >< | ||
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vorxaw
Canada245 Posts
On June 20 2012 14:46 avilo wrote: Btw, I never dodged your challenge. I also do believe I am a better player than you, as well as more qualified to talk about balance than you are. My WCS result over you already proves who is better, and I am willing to prove it again. I challenge you to a bo5, my conditions are that I play as Protoss and you play as Terran for the entire series. We each put up $50.00, and we both must stream the entire bo5. MLG 2012 map pool from most recent MLG. DO WANT | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
Having a Terran on the show would be awesome, but if JP is asking people like Illusion and they don't have time it isn't a big deal - it means for one show we miss the Terran perspective. That's a bummer, but it certainly isn't the end of the world. It seems like the people complaining that Avilo didn't get on are mad they didn't get to hear a Terran vent about the latest patch. I wouldn't want to tune into SOTG to hear balance whine. I want to hear what the patch has changed about the matchup. What Terran might be able to do to cope. And if the match has changed in terms of how entertaining it is to watch. There's plenty of places to balance whine, making SOTG another one will reduce the quality of the show. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
Dear JP and Company on SOTG, When people call in, do you typically try to filter out a large number with a random choice of who's question to take, etc., or do you just pick up the first call that comes on? I'm in China right now, but when I get back to the States I'd like to call in.  Thanks guys. Great show. | ||
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Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
On June 21 2012 13:05 Swords wrote: I'm just jumping into this thread now, so maybe I missed this. Having a representative of each race on SOTG would be great, if possible. That being said, why on earth are people considering Avilo? He has almost no results. He balance whines almost nonstop (see previous posts linked in this thread). Having a Terran on the show would be awesome, but if JP is asking people like Illusion and they don't have time it isn't a big deal - it means for one show we miss the Terran perspective. That's a bummer, but it certainly isn't the end of the world. It seems like the people complaining that Avilo didn't get on are mad they didn't get to hear a Terran vent about the latest patch. I wouldn't want to tune into SOTG to hear balance whine. I want to hear what the patch has changed about the matchup. What Terran might be able to do to cope. And if the match has changed in terms of how entertaining it is to watch. There's plenty of places to balance whine, making SOTG another one will reduce the quality of the show. I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure you actually watched the last SoTG. That there was no terran didn't only make it so that there where no terran balance whine, but so that the show seemingly concluded that terran is fine and people are just being brats. Arguably then, SoTG has a lot of influence, so that could skew the publics picture of the current TvZ balance, or at least how the public views the pros and the more insightfuls view on the current TvZ balance. Though, I don't really know if there is to much to whine about, I don't think Blizzard are likely to take what Artosis and IdrA (and partly Incontrol, but mostly Artosis and IdrA as far as I could tell) think about TvZ balance more seriously than what MKP, DRG and MVP think about the same. So arguably people are making far to big of a deal of this. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On June 21 2012 13:14 Theovide wrote: I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure you actually watched the last SoTG. That there was no terran didn't only make it so that there where no terran balance whine, but so that the show seemingly concluded that terran is fine and people are just being brats. Arguably then, SoTG has a lot of influence, so that could skew the publics picture of the current TvZ balance, or at least how the public views the pros and the more insightfuls view on the current TvZ balance. Though, I don't really know if there is to much to whine about, I don't think Blizzard are likely to take what Artosis and IdrA (and partly Incontrol, but mostly Artosis and IdrA as far as I could tell) think about TvZ balance more seriously than what MKP, DRG and MVP think about the same. So arguably people are making far to big of a deal of this. Yeah, maybe I didn't articulate that very well. I think concluding there's nothing wrong with Terran and not looking at it in depth is bad, but it isn't like this is the last show or that SoTG determines game balance. There will be more episodes. There will be Terrans on the show. There will be more time to see if the latest patch really did break Zerg. I think there's a ton of unnecessary flaming going on here without much upside. I get why people are mad the patch was basically brushed aside on the show, but it doesn't merit this level of shit storm. If Blizzard actually listened to the SoTG crew for balance updates we'd have a very different SC2 right now, and while I know SoTG has sway in the community nobody is saying "Well, even though MVP said the 6 queen opener is only beatable if the Zerg makes a mistake I heard that Nony said the new patch wasn't a big deal and Terran is fine. MVP is probably just whining." As a side note, I'd love to hear what the SoTG crew (particularly the casters) think about how it is WATCHING TvZ. This used to be one of my favorite matchups to watch as a fan, but since the patch it has become way more boring in my opinion. This is a really important issue to me in terms of the game as a spectator sport, and you don't have to be a Terran player to say "This match is less entertaining to watch since the patch because early Terran aggression is stopped so easily there's no early game tension where the Zerg or Terran can really mess up or pull off something amazing to get an advantage going into the midgame." | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 21 2012 13:05 Swords wrote: I'm just jumping into this thread now, so maybe I missed this. Having a representative of each race on SOTG would be great, if possible. That being said, why on earth are people considering Avilo? He has almost no results. Like Incontrol and Nony? He balance whines almost nonstop (see previous posts linked in this thread). Like Idra? I mean, saying Avilo doesn't deserve to be on the show because he isn't skilled enough or because he whines too much is just hilarious considering the show's regular hosts. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46673 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:59 avilo wrote: SOTG needs a Terran on it, otherwise SOTG needs to simply shut up. And yet they've asked Terrans to come on (even JP posted his conversation with Illusion), the occasional Terran does come on, and all you're doing is whining as if you know how to run a show better than they do. Please post for all of us the days and times that your super-successful StarCraft talk show streams again. The particulars have slipped my mind. Thanks in advance. | ||
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